Understanding God’s election

[Rufus]

Why are you obsessed with repeating the primordial lies of Satan ad nauseum?
I mean, the Woman was deceived by them. Are you intent on perpetuating the same diabolical scheming as the evil one?

I would FF to the last 15 minutes and listen intently if I were you. Same goes for any other hyper-Calvinist.

https://www.sermonaudio.com/solo/cliffside/sermons/9101132540/

So now Romans 9 has been further downgraded and denigrated to "the primordial lies of Satan". You cannot refute Rom 9, so you just trash it by accusing me of lying, as though I wrote the chapter.

And I don't have time to listen to your heretical trash. If you want to summarize the speaker's argument or points, go for it. Otherwise, don't.

But I am curious as to who the "them" are in your second sentence? You see multiple serpents in the Garden?

 

[Rufus]

I have never met a more condemning poster on CC than @Rufus
@brightfame52 is equally obsessed.

Fortunately, Gods gift of salvation is GIVEN to whosoever ***will*** COME to FREELY receive it.

[Rev 21:6 KJV]
And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

[Rev 22:17 KJV]
And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

By the way, the context of Rev 22:17 is the new heavens and new earth and the saints in their glorified, sinless state. So...yes, they can FREELY partake of the water of life since they are no longer encumbered by a sin nature.

Context matters...

 

[MeowFlower]

And whom God predestined, he called, and whom he effectually called he justified...

Exactly.
That passage predates the Reformed Doctrine and Calvinism.

Beautiful.

 

[Rufus]

Exactly.
That passage predates the Reformed Doctrine and Calvinism.

Beautiful.

Yeah...imagine that! Paul was a Calvinist way before Calvin's time.

 

[Genez]

How long will you love your simple-minded ways? Again, no one is denying that Jacob and Esau didn't make spiritual choices. They made the choices God destined in eternity for them to make. God made Jacob WILLING in the day of his power (Ps 110:3). Conversely, God gave no saving grace to Esau; therefore, Esau's wicked heart could only choose that which was evil.

God knowing all things does not tamper with what He knows a person will want to choose.
But, God does not make him to choose as the person wants to.

If one would stop trying to picture themself as God... and just trust.
It would be no problem.

Have faith.

 

[Genez]

Chapter and verse on your "cross" answer. Otherwise, you're speculating. My bible tells me that only those justified by faith will see God. Of course, there is one biblical exception but if your life depended on coming up with the biblical answer, you wouldn't make it because you're so willfully ignorant.

1 John 2:2

He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

.

 

[cv5]

By the way, the context of Rev 22:17 is the new heavens and new earth and the saints in their glorified, sinless state. So...yes, they can FREELY partake of the water of life since they are no longer encumbered by a sin nature.

Context matters...

Wrong again. Keep at it.

[Rev 22:16 KJV]
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, [and] the bright and morning star.

[Rev 22:17 KJV]
And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

=========================================================================

[Luk 7:29 NKJV]
And when all the people heard [Him], even the tax collectors justified God, having been baptized with the baptism of John.

[Luk 7:30 NKJV]
But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the will of God for themselves, not having been baptized by him.

 

[cv5]

So now Romans 9 has been further downgraded and denigrated to "the primordial lies of Satan". You cannot refute Rom 9, so you just trash it by accusing me of lying, as though I wrote the chapter.

And I don't have time to listen to your heretical trash. If you want to summarize the speaker's argument or points, go for it. Otherwise, don't.

But I am curious as to who the "them" are in your second sentence? You see multiple serpents in the Garden?

Trash Romans nine? Of course not.
I only admonish those who CHOOSE to trash the true intended meaning of it.

And believe me, you have NO IDEA of what is being communicated therein. Like zero.

[Rom 9:3 KJV]
For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

[Rom 9:4 KJV]
Who are Israelites; to whom [pertaineth] the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service [of God], and the promises;

[Rom 9:5 KJV]
Whose [are] the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ [came], who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

[Rom 9:6 KJV]
Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel:

 

[Genez]

And whom God predestined, he called, and whom he effectually called he justified...

Predestined for what?

You presume way too much.

He predestined that you would be born during the Church age.

Why?

Because you were chosen in Him before the foundations of the world.

Why does it say? "Chosen in Him?"

Where was the woman's body while Adam was yet alone?
Her body was "in" Adams body.

When we are resurrected?
He could point to us and proclaim!

Now, this is bone of my everlasting bones, and glorious flesh of my glorious everlasting flesh!

Like Eve was to Adam...
We are the Bride of Christ!
We are hidden in Him and seated with Him right now in heavenly places!

That's what we were chosen for - God having known we would choose to believe.

God sis not predestine Moses to believe in the Church age.
For Moses was not chosen in Him before the foundations of the world!

"For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the
world to be holy and blameless in His presence."
Ephesians 1:4
​

We shall be made holy and blameless in our resurrection bodies, having a body just like his own glorious body!

"But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior
from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables
him to bring everything under his control, will transform
our lowly bodies
so that they will be like his
glorious body."

Philippians 3:20-21​

That is what God predestined us for!

 

[Rufus]

God knowing all things does not tamper with what He knows a person will want to choose.
But, God does not make him to choose as the person wants to.

If one would stop trying to picture themself as God... and just trust.
It would be no problem.

Have faith.

There's no verse in scripture that teaches that God's election is contingent upon man's choices...or that his election is contingent on His foreknowledge of man's choices. You had better consult with your "good teacher" before you embarrass yourself further. The bible teaches that God works all things according to the counsel of his own will -- not his moral agents' will (Eph 1:11).

Where is your faith? Why can't you believe Eph 1:11? And what part of "all" don't you get?

 

[Genez]

I have never met a more condemning poster on CC than @Rufus
@brightfame52 is equally obsessed.

Sadly... They are haters.

They hate because they are still clinging to self hatred that they stuffed into their luggage and unpacked after landing on the other side into salvation.

Sound doctrine would teach them to learn to know love for themselves in Christ.
But, the false doctrine they keep clinging to has been hindering them from discovering
who they are in Christ beyond the very simple level they seem to want to remain in...

They feel at home being self haters, which Calvinism scoops and heaps onto their plate freely.
They loved hearing that man is totally depraved. It justified their self hatred.

Sure seems that way.

grace and peace .........

 

[Rufus]

Trash Romans nine? Of course not.
I only admonish those who CHOOSE to trash the true intended meaning of it.

And believe me, you have NO IDEA of what is being communicated therein. Like zero.

[Rom 9:3 KJV]
For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

[Rom 9:4 KJV]
Who are Israelites; to whom [pertaineth] the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service [of God], and the promises;

[Rom 9:5 KJV]
Whose [are] the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ [came], who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

[Rom 9:6 KJV]
Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Did you have to point to make with those four verses? If so, what are they? (I certainly do, if you can't come up with something coherent.) Why don't you tell us how vv. 3-6 fits into everything else Paul wrote in the chapter?

 

[Rufus]

Sadly... They are haters.

They hate because they are still clinging to self hatred that they stuffed into their luggage and unpacked after landing on the other side into salvation.

Sound doctrine would teach them to learn to know love for themselves in Christ.
But, the false doctrine they keep clinging to has been hindering them from discovering
who they are in Christ beyond the very simple level they seem to want to remain in...

They feel at home being self haters, which Calvinism scoops and heaps onto their plate freely.
They loved hearing that man is totally depraved. It justified their self hatred.

Sure seems that way.

grace and peace .........

I don't hate anything except falsehood. And like God and the psalmists, I hate liars. But I do love God's word, for it is pure and holy and good and righteous.

And thanks be to God that compared to my love for God, I DO "hate" myself. After all, there is no good thing in my flesh. I hate when I sin. I hate hidden sins that I'm not even aware of. The only good within me is the Holy Spirit.

So...now that you have tipped your hand on just how much you love yourself, explain to us how you can have as much love for yourself as you pretend to have for God.

 

[cv5]

Sadly... They are haters.

They hate because they are still clinging to self hatred that they stuffed into their luggage and unpacked after landing on the other side into salvation.

Sound doctrine would teach them to learn to know love for themselves in Christ.
But, the false doctrine they keep clinging to has been hindering them from discovering
who they are in Christ beyond the very simple level they seem to want to remain in...

They feel at home being self haters, which Calvinism scoops and heaps onto their plate freely.
They loved hearing that man is totally depraved. It justified their self hatred.

Sure seems that way.

grace and peace .........

You nailed it bro.

"But, the false doctrine they keep clinging to has been hindering them from discovering"

 

[Genez]

There's no verse in scripture that teaches that God's election is contingent upon man's choices...or that his election is contingent on His foreknowledge of man's choices. You had better consult with your "good teacher" before you embarrass yourself further. The bible teaches that God works all things according to the counsel of his own will -- not his moral agents' will (Eph 1:11).

You suffer with a problem with a lack of having no Scriptural consistency....

"I call heaven and earth today to witness against you: I have set before you life and death,
the blessing and the curse. Choose life, then, that you and your descendants may live. "

Deuteronomy 30:19​

You must keep it on a very simple level.

One so simple you can master it without having to think.

So be it....

 

[Genez]

I don't hate anything except falsehood. And like God and the psalmists, I hate liars.

That's good for your syndrome...

For there are a lot of things that will appear false when compared to the false doctrine you accept and gorge yourself with.

Yes... You love. Love to hate.

Some people are just that way in their flesh.
Its why MSNBC was originally created...

 

[cv5]

Did you have to point to make with those four verses? If so, what are they? (I certainly do, if you can't come up with something coherent.) Why don't you tell us how vv. 3-6 fits into everything else Paul wrote in the chapter?

@Rufus said"
"Therefore, there is no way for anyone to accurately determine when the 70 years began or ended."

Since you have thus far refused to admit your appalling error and ignorance regarding this matter, how am I to expect anything less of you regarding your hopelessly wrongheaded view of Romans 9?

You actually believe that Romans 9 speaks to individual salvation and what YOU foolishly call "predestination".
Yet another total fail on your part.

 

[Gideon300]

There's no verse in scripture that teaches that God's election is contingent upon man's choices...or that his election is contingent on His foreknowledge of man's choices. You had better consult with your "good teacher" before you embarrass yourself further. The bible teaches that God works all things according to the counsel of his own will -- not his moral agents' will (Eph 1:11).

Where is your faith? Why can't you believe Eph 1:11? And what part of "all" don't you get?

How about Romans 8:29 & 30? God predestines according to foreknowledge, according to Paul. I am not dogmatic about this, but it seems to me that God knows who would choose Jesus if they had the opportunity. We do not. That's why we must preach the gospel to all mankind. One day, we will find out for sure. Until then it's OK not to know. If God had wanted to be 100% clear, He could have made it so easily. He has not.

 

[Kroogz]

Election and predestination are for believers ONLY. They come after salvation.

Election of Israel. Service. Record His word. Spread His word.

Election of Christ. Service. Propitiate and glorify the Father. The Cross.

Election of the Church. Service. Glorify and be a light for Christ. His Bride.

Election of the ALREADY saved believer.......Service.

Predestination of the ALREADY saved believer. His predetermined plan.....Be conformed to the image of Christ. Adoption.

After salvation(Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ) we are elected for service, according to His predetermined plan.

 

[Genez]

@Rufus said"
"Therefore, there is no way for anyone to accurately determine when the 70 years began or ended."

Since you have thus far refused to admit your appalling error and ignorance regarding this matter, how am I to expect anything less of you regarding your hopelessly wrongheaded view of Romans 9?

You actually believe that Romans 9 speaks to individual salvation and what YOU foolishly call "predestination".
Yet another total fail on your part.

Apparently, he is depending upon some bad commentaries.