Understanding God’s election

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Genez said:
You can only become saved, after you are saved?

NO!

Grace stifles the flesh into silence as a soul is made free to consider the Gospel!

You can know you are a sinner before you are saved! You ever lie? Cheat? Etc?

And, you can also know as an unbeliever that a wonderful, loving man named "Jesus" died on a cross to pay for your sins.

The Gospel is SIMPLE!
Even an unbeliever can grasp it!

Understanding of spiritual truths like the deity of Christ only comes AFTER regeneration!
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No one can "grasp it", unless they are first given spiritual discernment from salvation.
Belief is a gift that results within someone FROM salvation, it doesn't cause salvation. A spiritually dead person cannot believe.
They must first be made spiritually alive, which is salvation, through which, they believe.
BTW your last sentence contradicts everything you said before it, and your first sentence makes no sense.
Your interpretation of verses Rom 1:18 -22, contradicts the truth of the gospel, which clearly is demonstrated by the verse I included, but which, you either don't understand or choose to ignore.
 
Genez said:
That was about unbelievers sitting in church listening to Bible classes, not being able to comprehend how others were enjoying it !
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Huh? Was that meant to be a joke of some kind - as with your other posts, it makes no sense.
 
rogerg said:
No one can "grasp it", unless they are first given spiritual discernment from salvation.
Belief is a gift that results within someone FROM salvation, it doesn't cause salvation. A spiritually dead person cannot believe.
They must first be made spiritually alive, which is salvation, through which, they believe.
BTW your last sentence contradicts everything you said before it, and your first sentence makes no sense.
Your interpretation of verses Rom 1:18 -22, contradicts the truth of the gospel, which clearly is demonstrated by the verse I included, but which, you either don't understand or choose to ignore.
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Spiritual death means to the non-reformed that the sons of men come into this world with only a slight flesh wound that requires just a little band aid. Metaphors mean nothing to very many here.
 
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Genez said:
That was about unbelievers sitting in church listening to Bible classes, not being able to comprehend how others were enjoying it !
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Try reading 1Co chapters 1 and 2 in their completeness, so that you might actually gain an understanding before you comment further.
 
Rufus said:
Spiritual death means to the non-reformed that the sons of men come into this world with only a slight flesh wound that requires just a little band aid. Metaphors mean nothing to very many here.
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Yep, Rufus, they cannot comprehend that spiritual death actually means to be completely dead spiritually - dead, dead.
 
rogerg said:
Yep, Rufus, they cannot comprehend that spiritual death actually means to be completely dead spiritually - dead, dead.
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To be spiritually dead is to be separated from the Life of God and there isn't a thing that any mere mortal can do to bridge that gap between himself and God. It's a GOD-SIZED problem that only he can fix.
 
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Now that we know from scripture that the humble and pious attitude of the saints is their own unworthiness regarding their salvation, we can move on to deal with the next inane straw man objection to Unconditional Election, which is: God arbitrarily chooses who he will save and who he won't. Of course, this is a totally unbiblical objection, since scripture everywhere teaches that there is purpose to everything God does.

God clearly never intended to save Pharaoh, for example. In fact, God raised up this reprobate king for the purpose of Him demonstrating his great power in him so that the entire earth would know what God did for his people and against Egypt (Rom 9:17).

"Many are the plans of man's heart BUT it's the Lord's purpose that prevails" (Prov 19:21).

Isa 46:10-11
0 I make known the end from the beginning,
from ancient times, what is still to come.
I say: My purpose will stand,
and I will do all that I please.
11 From the east I summon a bird of prey;
from a far-off land, a man to fulfill my purpose .
What I have said, that will I bring about;
what I have planned that will I do.
NIV

The election of each and every saint is according to God's purpose:

Eph 1:11
11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will,
NIV

2 Cor 5:5
5 Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
NIV

Rom 8:28
28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose .
NIV

Rom 9:11-12a
11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad — in order that God's purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls
NIV

God does NOTHING arbitrarily. There is intention, reason and purpose behind everything God decrees and does. Even the wicked he has made for the day of evil!

Prov 16:4
4 The LORD has made everything for its own purpose,
Even the wicked for the day of evil.
NASB
 
Rufus said:
Ezek 4 has nothing to do with Ezek 36. 390 days in chapter 4 has to do with God's command to the prophet and number of years the Israelites had sinned...

And the length of time that it took the Jews to actually complete temple has NOTHING to do with Cyrus' decree! Read Dan 9 very carefully. There's not a thing in that prophecy that has to do with allotted time for rebuilding. You're reading that into the passage.

And here's another little clue for you: the 70 Weeks (Seventy Sevens) of Daniel are not literal years; they are figurative years; just as the 70 years of deportation was for Israel. The Jews were not deported to Babylon all at once. They were deported in stages -- at least 2 or 3 stages. Ditto for the Gentile nations around them whose occupants were also deported to Babylon. Therefore, there is no way for anyone to accurately determine when the 70 years began or ended.
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Thats what you came up with? Sad. A very poor treatment and utterly wrong.
And yes, the THREE YEARS it took to build the second Temple is a foreshadowing of the time to build the tribulation Temple.
Yet future.

And YES, God defined the EXACT DAY of the start and end of 70 year captivity.
What is wrong with your reading comprehension man? Did you fail to read the scholarly link I provided?
http://watchmanbiblestudy.com/BibleStudies/HIStoryOurFuture/Ezekiels430Days.html

[2Ki 25:1 KJV]
And it came to pass in the ninth year of his reign, in the tenth month, in the tenth [day] of the month, [that] Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon came, he, and all his host, against Jerusalem, and pitched against it; and they built forts against it round about.

[Jer 52:4 KJV]
And it came to pass in the ninth year of his reign, in the tenth month, in the tenth [day] of the month, [that] Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon came, he and all his army, against Jerusalem, and pitched against it, and built forts against it round about.

[Eze 24:1 KJV]
Again in the ninth year, in the tenth month, in the tenth [day] of the month, the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
[Eze 24:2 KJV]
Son of man, write thee the name of the day, [even] of this same day: the king of Babylon set himself against Jerusalem this same day.

[Hag 2:15 KJV]
And now, I pray you, consider from this day and upward, from before a stone was laid upon a stone in the temple of the LORD:

[Hag 2:18 KJV]
Consider now from this day and upward, from the four and twentieth day of the ninth [month, even] from the day that the foundation of the LORD'S temple was laid, consider [it].
 
Genez said:
Come on...

You be honest.

If a one-year-old is killed in a car accident?
A one-year-old who does not even know what the word 'sin' means?

Does that one-year-old deserve hell????

We need to stop being superficial and dumb.

......
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do you believe sinners deserve hell Yes or no
 
cv5 said:
Who made me the judge of another mans opportunity for salvation? Absolutely nobody. I am not packing the gear. And neither are you.

[1Co 4:5 KJV]
Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

[1Co 5:12 KJV]
For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
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do you believe sinners deserve hell Yes or no
 
rogerg said:
Yep, Rufus, they cannot comprehend that spiritual death actually means to be completely dead spiritually - dead, dead.
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But we are NOT COMPLETELY DEAD.
Only AFTER being cast into the lake of fire is there TOTAL ETERNAL SEPARATION from God.

Presently we are HALF DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I mean you would actually know this if you actually understood this parable.
Every person born has the present OPPORTUNITY to seek Gods face and be reconciled.

Luk 10:30
And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
 
@rogerg

No one can "grasp it", unless they are first given spiritual discernment from salvation.
Belief is a gift that results within someone FROM salvation, it doesn't cause salvation. A spiritually dead person cannot believe.
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Thats correct, only a saved person, born of God can spiritually hear the words of God Jesus said Jn8:47

He that is of God heareth God’s words; ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.”

The man who is born of God can hear these words of God and the reason why you cannot hear the words of God is simply this, that you are not the sons of God.” Phillips translation
 
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MeowFlower said:
Travel to Rome. The Vatican is built on a graveyard that was a pagan cemetery.
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They put it there to honor the dead and not to preach to them. Sometimes you need to understand what is meant by what is said, and not simply what is said.
 
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