Understanding God’s election
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God promised to change our hearts, and give us new desires. I believe Him.
Well...well...you finally got something right, proving once again the old adage that even a blind squirrel occasionally finds a chestnut! Congratulations! This is the good news about you. But the bad is that you don't have a clue about how the "doctrine of inability" changes everything. See...in the world of imprisoned free willers, Jesus is always portrayed as a POSSIBLE or POTENTIAL savior, which is never how scripture portrays Him. Scripture portrays Him as the actual Savior of all whom God gives to the Son. Your god is strictly a REACTIONARY god who is always reacting to man's choices. At the end of the day, it's not God who's ruling this world, it's sinful men with their evil choices. And all God can do is merely react to those choices. God isn't really in control; rather, his image-bearers are. Man is calling the shots.
You know the answer. But if you answer it will undermine your understanding of God. So rather than see God fully and as He actually is and adjusting your understanding of God, you would rather push a partial view of God. This in itself is disingenuous.
I know you don't because somewhere in your mind you see God as being cruel, unfair, unjust if he simply gave people what they rightfully deserve. And that, madam, is pretty sick reasoning.
Evil was here before we were here...
And Evil will continue after we are removed.
Truth was here before we were here...
And Truth will continue after we are removed
God quality control checks all his saints.
He puts them through the same kinds of tests.
Testing to see if they are to be passed onto maturity.
That is why at times we must suffer for righteousness’ sake.
If Calvinists can twist a cruel God they present into being benevolent in his cruelty?
That is a Woke God. He only identifies as being just.
It's sick.... It makes me sad to see you want it.
“Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles…… he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.”
Isaiah 42:1, 3-4 KJV
jesus is the elect of God ( the only worthy and acceptable man ) who was foreknown before the creation and manifest in the last times
“but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world,
but was manifest in these last times for you,”
1 Peter 1:19-20 KJV
And so “ in Christ “ who was foreordained those who believe partake in his election and his inheritance of all nations
“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. ( Gods elect )
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. ( the elect of God )
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
Galatians 3:27-29
we believe in the one God elected and ordained into salvstion and so “ in Christ “ is where the promises are found we aren’t elect , we believe in and take the name of the elect upon ourselves in baptism
It’s just a lack of context one side is looking at this
“And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?”
Romans 8:28-31 KJV
No one says “ it says those who love God “
“Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.”
John 14:23-24
“By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.”
1 John 5:2-3 KJV
and the context isn’t being seen or heard so if we only look at this then sure it seems as if everything is predetermined by God
it’s only in the rest of the Bible that we find out Jesus the son of man , is the one who’s elect and preordained to inherit all things. And we who believe in him share in his identity and inheritance it isn’t that we are chosen individually but it’s that Christ is the chosen one and we who receive him of our own choice by faith , partake in his body the body of the elect
“The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: ( only because we accept the gospel ) and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.”
Romans 8:16-17 KJV
often we’re looking at real truth but we have neglected looking at the order and context and the “ how “ it comes to be part
Yet He says to us.... (Isaiah 55:8-9)
“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
“As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts."
Knowing what that means?
False teachings can appeal to our yet naive sense of God.
One will take on what they know is not their way of thinking simply to please God.
On the other hand...
Sound doctrine will at times force us to admit how our ways used to deceive us.
Force us to admit how dumb we were.
That's when the anger will try to get in the way of our growth if we are not humble.
grace and peace ...........
"And so “ in Christ “ who was foreordained those who believe partake in his election and his inheritance of all nations"
Yes sir, that is the way that works.
Nice try, but.....no.
Calvinites are the perps and denials will do you no good.
The truth is that you all repeat the lies of Satan.
Whether you know this or not.
Thank God I know better. Like REALLY know better.
Like digging to bedrock to build my house kind of better.
All of His divine attributes work in unison with each other at all times.He can't be unloving, unjust at times.....It would impugn His other divine attributes.
He paid for the sins of ALL.......knowing some would never trust in Him. The problem left for unbelievers is EVIL. Sins are paid for. He even died for His enemies..........That's love to the utmost. And He is Justified and righteous in all His dealings with mankind.
Food for thought. His divine love is an eternal divine attribute of God. His sovereignty is not. His sovereignty BEGAN at creation. His love is eternal.....Logical conclusion, His sovereignty did not "elect" or "predestine" A thing before the foundation of the world.
And why would I depart from the truth to have the same heart as a Calvinite?
Sorry but no. Fake sorry.
@Kroogz do you agree with the order of events as presented in this Scripture?
Also Ezekiel 36:26-27; Romans 2:29; Jeremiah 32:39-40; Colossians 2:11; Philippians 3:3...
The error of the Calvinites:
They thought that God was evil (Satan's lie BTW). But He is not, never was never will be.
And BTW, the ultimate "type" of this wicked servant is Satan himself.
So I would urgently recommend for all to depart from this sort of nuttery.
[Mat 25:26 KJV]
His lord answered and said unto him, (SOOOOO) [Thou] wicked and slothful servant, (YOU THOUGHT) thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed (DID YOU):???
(you thought that I was evil did you?)
[Mat 25:27 KJV]
Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and [then] at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
[Mat 25:28 KJV]
Take therefore the talent from him, and give [it] unto him which hath ten talents.
[Mat 25:29 KJV]
For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
If my ol' memory serves, yesterday Cameron (I believe) brought up the fact that God sovereignly and freely chose Abraham's descendants whom God called "Israel" to be his chosen nation and yet none of the free willers [oddly] complain about this fact.
But in response to that one of the more delusional free willers chimed in to basically tell us how all the surrounding Gentile nations in the ANE knew all about Israel's God, and how blessed Israel was and how Israel influenced these nations for good...yada, yada, yada. (I think the poster was either Genez or CV5 but I could be wrong.) In other words, the poster was desperately trying to put a good spin on the fact that none of the other nations were chosen by God to participate in his covenant! He, however, conveniently forgot Israel's dark, dismal checquered history of which I will bring some of that history back to our minds with a thumbnail sketch from the Psalms. But not only did he forget Israel's history, he forgot what God commanded Israel to do to those nations they were to drive from God's land! Let's go back to the past for a little while:
Ps 106:24-33
24 Then they despised the pleasant land;
they did not believe his promise.
25 They grumbled in their tents
and did not obey the LORD.
26 So he swore to them with uplifted hand
that he would make them fall in the desert,
27 make their descendants fall among the nations
and scatter them throughout the lands.
28 They yoked themselves to the Baal of Peor
and ate sacrifices offered to lifeless gods;
29 they provoked the LORD to anger by their wicked deeds,
and a plague broke out among them.
30 But Phinehas stood up and intervened,
and the plague was checked.
31 This was credited to him as righteousness
for endless generations to come.
32 By the waters of Meribah they angered the LORD,
and trouble came to Moses because of them;
33 for they rebelled against the Spirit of God,
and rash words came from Moses' lips.
NIV
It seems to me that Israel never lived up to its calling. They were supposed to be lights to the dark nations around them but instead they became as dark (if not worse) than those nations! So how did Israel get into all this hot water? Well...they disobeyed God. They didn't do what He commanded them from the very beginning. The Psalmist continues...
Ps 106:34-41
34 They did not destroy the peoples
as the LORD had commanded them,
35 but they mingled with the nations
and adopted their customs.
36 They worshiped their idols,
which became a snare to them.
37 They sacrificed their sons
and their daughters to demons.
38 They shed innocent blood,
the blood of their sons and daughters,
whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan,
and the land was desecrated by their blood.
39 They defiled themselves by what they did;
by their deeds they prostituted themselves.
40 Therefore the LORD was angry with his people
and abhorred his inheritance.
41 He handed them over to the nations,
and their foes ruled over them.
NIV
So God, who supposedly intends to save all men -- who wants "all" men to be saved -- instead put a "contract" out on all the occupants of the Land; yet, Israel who was supposed to carry out the contract failed to do so. As the text says, they instead "mingled" or befriended those pagan nations and wound up becoming ensnared by their customs and gods, which proved to be their downfall -- twice over I might add! The free willer spinmeisters got it all backwards. Israel had little positive impact on the surronding nations; conversely, those nations greatly influenced Israel.
So, free willers, go spin some more this Psalm and God's election of Israel!
But in response to that one of the more delusional free willers chimed in to basically tell us how all the surrounding Gentile nations in the ANE knew all about Israel's God, and how blessed Israel was and how Israel influenced these nations for good...yada, yada, yada. (I think the poster was either Genez or CV5 but I could be wrong.) In other words, the poster was desperately trying to put a good spin on the fact that none of the other nations were chosen by God to participate in his covenant! He, however, conveniently forgot Israel's dark, dismal checquered history of which I will bring some of that history back to our minds with a thumbnail sketch from the Psalms. But not only did he forget Israel's history, he forgot what God commanded Israel to do to those nations they were to drive from God's land! Let's go back to the past for a little while:
Ps 106:24-33
24 Then they despised the pleasant land;
they did not believe his promise.
25 They grumbled in their tents
and did not obey the LORD.
26 So he swore to them with uplifted hand
that he would make them fall in the desert,
27 make their descendants fall among the nations
and scatter them throughout the lands.
28 They yoked themselves to the Baal of Peor
and ate sacrifices offered to lifeless gods;
29 they provoked the LORD to anger by their wicked deeds,
and a plague broke out among them.
30 But Phinehas stood up and intervened,
and the plague was checked.
31 This was credited to him as righteousness
for endless generations to come.
32 By the waters of Meribah they angered the LORD,
and trouble came to Moses because of them;
33 for they rebelled against the Spirit of God,
and rash words came from Moses' lips.
NIV
It seems to me that Israel never lived up to its calling. They were supposed to be lights to the dark nations around them but instead they became as dark (if not worse) than those nations! So how did Israel get into all this hot water? Well...they disobeyed God. They didn't do what He commanded them from the very beginning. The Psalmist continues...
Ps 106:34-41
34 They did not destroy the peoples
as the LORD had commanded them,
35 but they mingled with the nations
and adopted their customs.
36 They worshiped their idols,
which became a snare to them.
37 They sacrificed their sons
and their daughters to demons.
38 They shed innocent blood,
the blood of their sons and daughters,
whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan,
and the land was desecrated by their blood.
39 They defiled themselves by what they did;
by their deeds they prostituted themselves.
40 Therefore the LORD was angry with his people
and abhorred his inheritance.
41 He handed them over to the nations,
and their foes ruled over them.
NIV
So God, who supposedly intends to save all men -- who wants "all" men to be saved -- instead put a "contract" out on all the occupants of the Land; yet, Israel who was supposed to carry out the contract failed to do so. As the text says, they instead "mingled" or befriended those pagan nations and wound up becoming ensnared by their customs and gods, which proved to be their downfall -- twice over I might add! The free willer spinmeisters got it all backwards. Israel had little positive impact on the surronding nations; conversely, those nations greatly influenced Israel.
So, free willers, go spin some more this Psalm and God's election of Israel!
Jesus was chosen to be God's preeminent servant to proclaim and provide salvation. Believers are chosen "in" Him. So unless Jesus was chosen in Himself, our election, though tied to His, is a distinct election.