Understanding God’s election

[Genez]

I did! And I stand by it. Jesus clearly taught that no human being is inherently good, and that would include children.

What I was challenging was the non-reformed idea that God saves all children anyway. I wanted to know on what judicial grounds does he do this? Genez proffered the idea that salvation for the kiddies is all based on God's prescience and has nothing to do with jurisprudence, clearly implying that God has two different systems of salvation.

David was born a sinner.
David was not born evil.

Sinners can get saved....

 

[Cameron143]

David was born a sinner.
David was not born evil.

Sinners can get saved....

So can evil, vile people.

 

[Magenta]

I'm trying to save time. pfs=patently false statement. Calvinists do not believe God drags people against their will. They believe God restores man and he assents to God's leading of his own volition.

Yes, thank you for explaining it does seem to be what Scripture actually teaches despite so many denying the very words of what is written in the Bible and in Jesus' own words at that. I don't know why it is so hard for any to understand. Perhaps it is just as Isaiah and others have said including John: they have become dull of hearing.

 

[Cameron143]

Yes, thank you for explaining it does seem to be what Scripture actually teaches despite so many denying the very words of what is written in the Bible and in Jesus' own words at that. I don't know why it is so hard for any to understand. Perhaps it is just as Isaiah and others have said including John: they have become dull of hearing.

Regardless of what on believes concerning the timing of the work of the Spirit, no Calvinist says men come kicking and screaming through the gate.

 

[Genez]

So can evil, vile people.

Believing in false doctrine is evil.
Believing in lie against the truth is walking in evil.

Believers can fall into evil.
But Jesus did not die for evil.
Jesus died for sins only.
That is why not all believers will be welcomed with great reward and honor from God.
But... they remain saved if they believed in Jesus Christ.

​

For no one can lay any foundation other than the one ​

already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If anyone builds on ​

this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, ​

hay or straw, their work will be shown for what it is, ​

because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed ​

with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s ​

work. If what has been built survives, the builder will receive ​

a reward. If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but ​

yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through ​

the flames. 1 Cor 3:11-15​

​

Note...​

​

If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved​

—even though only as one escaping through the flames.​

​

One can believe in Christ.
Then, be a total loser in his spiritual walk.
It says? He remains saved...

......

 

[Genez]

So can evil, vile people.

Give an example of one.

There is a difference of a person being influenced by evil, walking in evil. And, as a result, acting vile.

And, an evil person who is evil to his core. One who can not be reached.

 

[Cameron143]

Believing in false doctrine is evil.
Believing in lie against the truth is walking in evil.

Believers can fall into evil.
But Jesus did not die for evil.
Jesus died for sins only.
That is why not all believers will be welcomed with great reward and honor from God.
But... they remain saved if they believed in Jesus Christ.

​

For no one can lay any foundation other than the one ​

already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If anyone builds on ​

this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, ​

hay or straw, their work will be shown for what it is, ​

because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed ​

with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s ​

work. If what has been built survives, the builder will receive ​

a reward. If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but ​

yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through ​

the flames. 1 Cor 3:11-15​

​

Note...​

​

If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved​

—even though only as one escaping through the flames.​

​

One can believe in Christ. Then, be a total loser in his spiritual walk.
It says? He remains saved...

msektytyat...more stuff that everyone knows that you think you are teaching

 

[Cameron143]

Give an example of one.

There is a difference of a person being influenced by evil, walking in evil. And, as a result, acting vile.

And, an evil person who is evil to his core. One who can not be reached.

Me.

 

[Cranberry]

I did! And I stand by it. Jesus clearly taught that no human being is inherently good, and that would include children.

What I was challenging was the non-reformed idea that God saves all children anyway. I wanted to know on what judicial grounds does he do this? Genez proffered the idea that salvation for the kiddies is all based on God's prescience and has nothing to do with jurisprudence, clearly implying that God has two different systems of salvation.

My point was if all children are evil and are born that way, then Jesus saying, unless we become like little children we cannot see the kingdom of heaven , does not conport with our redemption that assures heaven.
What with Jesus stating the condition of being like little children is the only way we enter the kingdom. Not if children are born evil.

There's no mention of redeemed children in the Jesus teaching.

Psalm 127:3
Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord, the fruit of the womb a reward.

 

[Genez]

Me.

ADD does not count.

 

[Cranberry]

You have odd interpretations about babies and children

“and said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.

But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭18:3-6, 10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I agree. Rufus does have an unusual perspective regarding children. Which is why I sought clarification.

 

[Genez]

I did! And I stand by it. Jesus clearly taught that no human being is inherently good, and that would include children.

What I was challenging was the non-reformed idea that God saves all children anyway. I wanted to know on what judicial grounds does he do this? Genez proffered the idea that salvation for the kiddies is all based on God's prescience and has nothing to do with jurisprudence, clearly implying that God has two different systems of salvation.

No human is born walking in divine good,.

But, there are many humans who walk in human good.

 

[Magenta]

Regardless of what on believes concerning the timing of the work of the
Spirit, no Calvinist says men come kicking and screaming through the gate.

Yeah, it just seems like some deliberately misrepresent, as if that makes their false doctrine more acceptable.

And to think even he who called himself the worst of sinners did so likely because he went
about seeking to kill those who believed just as he would come to. There is hope yet..

Paul! Who said, For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing.

I wonder where his free will was??? He instead called himself a prisoner of the law of sin.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I agree. Rufus does have an unusual perspective regarding children. Which is why I sought clarification.

Right. It was intended for Rufus I’m sorry I was reading your post there and meant to click on his

 

[Genez]

Regardless of what on believes concerning the timing of the work of the Spirit, no Calvinist says men come kicking and screaming through the gate.

Being DRAGGED in...

I once heard a Calvinist pastor at his own church say it openly.
Not only that. Someone here recently said the same thing.

 

[Genez]

msektytyat...more stuff that everyone knows that you think you are teaching

Your response reminds me of someone who sits down.
Falls off to asleep.
Then, begins talking in his sleep.

You have no good answer.
Understood.....
For its difficult to lie against the truth.

 

[cv5]

Regardless of what on believes concerning the timing of the work of the Spirit, no Calvinist says men come kicking and screaming through the gate.

Calvinites insist that God demands a shotgun wedding for His Son too. So nasty!
They imply that no one would EVER actually marry Jesus as an act of their own free will because of his tender love for them and wooing them.
You know.......the same as every civilized country. And you know.....according the principal and pattern of permission/consent required by and integrated into the Jewish wedding contract.

So yea, being dragged kicking through the gate goes with the brutally dictatorial Cavinite territory. And yes this is also in implied by the Calvinite dogma.

Calvinites doing a lot of shucking and jiving lately to maintain their sanity that much is true.

 

[Cameron143]

Being DRAGGED in...

I once heard a Calvinist pastor at his own church say it openly.
Not only that. Someone here recently said the same thing.

That's 2 people. I know plenty in the reformed faith who reject this. But I'm sure you know better.

 

[Cameron143]

Your response reminds me of someone who sits down.
Falls off to asleep.
Then, begins talking in his sleep.

You have no good answer.
Understood.....
For its difficult to lie against the truth.

What's to reply to. You share stuff everyone knows as if you are teaching people things they don't know.

 

[Cameron143]

Calvinites insist that God demands a shotgun wedding for His Son too. So nasty!
They imply that no one would EVER actually marry Jesus as an act of their own free will because of his tender love for them and wooing them.
You know.......the same as every civilized country. And you know.....according the principal and pattern of permission/consent required by and integrated into the Jewish wedding contract.

So yea, being dragged kicking through the gate goes with the brutally dictatorial Cavinite territory. And yes this is also in implied by the Calvinite dogma.

Calvinites doing a lot of shucking and jiving lately to maintain their sanity that much is true.

pfs...see above post