There's this textbook example of circular reasoning - how do you know there's a god? The bible says so. How is the bible a reliable source? It's inspired by god. Apologetic's role is to break this circular reasoning by bearing witness from an extrabiblical perspective, and this is absolutely necessary, according to the "two witness rule" in the bible. The bible is God's special revelation, but beyond that there's also God's GENERAL revelation manifested in all his creation, and that requires apologetics to explain how geopolitical events fulfills bible prophecy, how archeological findings reveal bible history, how scientific discovery has God's fingerprint embedded in it (such as the golden ratio).
Understanding apologetics
- Thread starter Jordon
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There's this textbook example of circular reasoning - how do you know there's a god? The bible says so. How is the bible a reliable source? It's inspired by god. Apologetic's role is to break this circular reasoning by bearing witness from an extrabiblical perspective, and this is absolutely necessary, according to the "two witness rule" in the bible. The bible is God's special revelation, but beyond that there's also God's GENERAL revelation manifested in all his creation, and that requires apologetics to explain how geopolitical events fulfills bible prophecy, how archeological findings reveal bible history, how scientific discovery has God's fingerprint embedded in it (such as the golden ratio).
U
Undergrace1
Guest
A new heart/a circumcised heart/one that seeks to follow and be obedient:roughly there is about a 700 year gap between Deuteronomy 30:6 and Ezekiel 36
The exile you refering it is when they where held captive in Babylon, a consequence of there disobedience.
He then spoke about a future promise to a spiritual new heart and profound change of heart and mind , meaning Christ points to a definite future covenant.
Deuteronomy 30:6 can be seen as a renewal and change of the existing covenant at that time.
And it says the lord your God will circumcise your heart, which also speaks of now. It doesn't say I will give a new heart like Ezekiel does.
They are Distinct to each other they can't be considered the same passage tho they explore similar themes.
A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29 No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God. Rom2:28&29
even if I'm wrong about circumcision of heart taking place in Deuteronomy 30:6 before entry in to the promised land for the first time which I could be. it still doesn't take away 2 million people had inner effection and mercy, it's noted in many battles during the 40 year period before entering the promise land which is also viewed as an inner circumcision to the conscience, which is Romans 2:15 which is what professor RC Sproul with degrees in theology speaks of.A new heart/a circumcised heart/one that seeks to follow and be obedient:
A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29 No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God. Rom2:28&29
It's seen as constant renewals of the existing covenant,
But again there, it can be seen as a difference between circumcision and a New heart, just as Deuteronomy 30:6 and Ezekiel
To say that mankind is not blessed with common grace from conscience awareness rules out the intelligence of a professor.
I won't do that
I know all about circular reasoning it means you can't prove your faith because the bible says so from atheists.There's this textbook example of circular reasoning - how do you know there's a god? The bible says so. How is the bible a reliable source? It's inspired by god. Apologetic's role is to break this circular reasoning by bearing witness from an extrabiblical perspective, and this is absolutely necessary, according to the "two witness rule" in the bible. The bible is God's special revelation, but beyond that there's also God's GENERAL revelation manifested in all his creation, and that requires apologetics to explain how geopolitical events fulfills bible prophecy, how archeological findings reveal bible history, how scientific discovery has God's fingerprint embedded in it (such as the golden ratio).
It's the same reasoning from. Roman catholics give funny enough,
Instead of saying actualky your faith can be assured from reading the bible.
Did you watch the sermon about the meaning of apologetics from the professor who's ministered biblical apolegetics his whole life, that's where the main point of post 1 is from, from your quote to the the post you've quoted me on which is the same meaning
No point in holding me accountabke, the main understanding of apologetics is made in post 1 from professor RC sproul a very intelligent truthful man
U
Undergrace1
Guest
I don't know anything about professor Sproul, but speaking generally, I am always wary of people with ''degrees in theology''which is what professor RC Sproul with degrees in theology speaks of.
The early christians, known as ''the way'' lived their lives in simple faith and a total reliance on the Holy Spirit. In truth, that is the theology that interests me.
I wonder, if Peter and John could have attained degrees in theology, or even be ministers in many churches today. Being lowly fishermen, and uneducated, I doubt they could have passed through theological college.
Its interesting to note, the greatest power seen, and most rapid growth of the church took place before the emergence of the scholar and theologian, who quickly came along after the Apostles passing, ever more searching for some ''nugget of truth''; they could glean from the scriptures and turn into a doctrine cast in stone:
At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do. Luke10:21
I'm not sure you've fully understood about inner binding of his word in Deuteronomy 6 correctly, as type of inner circumcision, as I've already told you it's different to having a new heart.I don't know anything about professor Sproul, but speaking generally, I am always wary of people with ''degrees in theology''
The early christians, known as ''the way'' lived their lives in simple faith and a total reliance on the Holy Spirit. In truth, that is the theology that interests me.
I wonder, if Peter and John could have attained degrees in theology, or even be ministers in many churches today. Being lowly fishermen, and uneducated, I doubt they could have passed through theological college.
Its interesting to note, the greatest power seen, and most rapid growth of the church took place before the emergence of the scholar and theologian, who quickly came along after the Apostles passing, ever more searching for some ''nugget of truth''; they could glean from the scriptures and turn into a doctrine cast in stone:
At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do. Luke10:21
Neither have you answered to any other inner binding I've mentioned before the giving of the news heart,.
When I say I may be wrong I mean by the word used, may be wrong, but not my meaning all togeather
I'm taking about a persons heart being inner binded more so before the new heart like a circumcision.
So do you understand the difference ?
Btw that was a bit of cheap shot at RC Sproul. He also has a degree in philosophy and theology a real one too, do you understand to have a degree in these two fields you have to be able desert right and wrong more so?
From many people who have studied theology to of the bible, over the years, theology is and are the questions that come out of the bible, along with philosophical questions that come out of the bible. I have had members here showing me professor of degrees but so far none have shown me professor with a degree in theology. As it's obvious people are idiots and don't know what that means either.
The question again is do you understand inner binding better than you do inner circumcision
U
Undergrace1
Guest
Its too complicated for me. All I know is, when I got saved, as I told you, the most noticeable difference about me was, I became aware of my imperfections/sin before God in a most real and profound way, something that had not been the case previouslyI'm not sure you've fully understood about inner binding of his word in Deuteronomy 6 correctly, as type of inner circumcision, as I've already told you it's different to having a new heart.
Neither have you answered to any other inner binding I've mentioned before the giving of the news heart,.
When I say I may be wrong I mean by the word used, may be wrong, but not my meaning all togeather
I'm taking about a persons heart being inner binded more so before the new heart like a circumcision.
So do you understand the difference ?
Btw that was a bit of cheap shot at RC Sproul. He also has a degree in philosophy and theology a real one too, do you understand to have a degree in these two fields you have to be able desert right and wrong more so?
From many people who have studied theology to of the bible, over the years, theology is and are the questions that come out of the bible, along with philosophical questions that come out of the bible. I have had members here showing me professor of degrees but so far none have shown me professor with a degree in theology. As it's obvious people are idiots and don't know what that means either.
The question again is do you understand inner binding better than you do inner circumcision
Through the law we become conscious of sin Rom3:20
btw why did moses ask his people in Deuteronomy 6 to bind this message internally ?Its too complicated for me. All I know is, when I got saved, as I told you, the most noticeable difference about me was, I became aware of my imperfections/sin before God in a most real and profound way, something that had not been the case previously
Through the law we become conscious of sin Rom3:20
I think we need this question answering before we go of track again
U
Undergrace1
Guest
What this verse?btw why did moses ask his people in Deuteronomy 6 to bind this message internally ?
I think we need this question answering before we go of track again
These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts
Desire in your heart to follow how God wants you to live
Very different from the new covenant, God directly places his laws in your heart and mind,
Yep again I see the an understanding being left out here.What this verse?
These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts
Desire in your heart to follow how God wants you to live
Very different from the new covenant, God directly places his laws in your heart and mind,
How is it they are able to bind that message on the heart, ?
The Roman catholics reach is
By your own desire.
Leaving about a special inner binding of God that enables them to.
Any ideas what I mean now
U
Undergrace1
Guest
Not really, if you love God you want to obey him, it is in your heart to obey him, therefore his commands can be said to be in your heartYep again I see the answer understanding being left out here.
How is it they are able to bind that message on the heart, ?
The Roman catholics reach is
By your own desire.
Leaving about a special inner binding of God enables them to.
Any ideas what I mean now
However, under the core foundation upon which the new covenant stands God says
I WILL write my laws in their minds
I WILL place my laws in their hearts
This is not now contingent on man in anyway, as soon as he enters covenant God does it
not really ok, well that's not really a full understanding of what I'm asking.Not really, if you love God you want to obey him, it is in your heart to obey him, therefore his commands can be said to be in your heart
However, under the core foundation upon which the new covenant stands God says
I WILL write my laws in their minds
I WILL place my laws in their hearts
This is not now contingent on man in anyway, as soon as he enters covenant God does it
I'll point you in this direction then
The roman Catholic accuse the reformed of what there guilty of.
Which is we dont teach that people have no ability or choice
So again what is the blessing internally from God that allows them to bind the message to there heart in Deuteronomy
U
Undergrace1
Guest
You tell me. At the end of the day the new covenant is very different from the old one, if it wasnt God would not have said concerning it:not really ok, well that's not really a full understanding of what I'm asking.
I'll point you in this direction then
The roman Catholic accuse the reformed of what there guilty of.
Which is we dont teach that people have no ability or choice
So again what is the blessing internally from God that allows them to bind the message to there heart in Deuteronomy
I WILL put my laws in their minds
I WILL place them on their hearts
I think it's now upto you, to tell me with all we have discussed now.You tell me. At the end of the day the new covenant is very different from the old one, if it wasnt God would not have said concerning it:
I WILL put my laws in their minds
I WILL place them on their hearts
Leaving out the new testmant preferably now,
As the Roman Catholic history is caked in denying the God of the old
U
Undergrace1
Guest
No you give me the answer you think you've got, Im not theologically minded.I think it's now upto you, to tell me with all we have discussed now.
Leaving out the new testmant preferably now,
As the Roman Catholic history is caked in denying the God of the old
And we cannot leave the new testement out, God said it would not be like the covenant he made with the Israelites, it is built on two core things. God writes his laws in our hearts and minds and our sins and lawless deeds will be remembered no more
No you give me the answer you think you've got, Im not theologically minded.
And we cannot leave the new testement out, God said it would not be like the covenant he made with the Israelites, it is built on two core things. God writes his laws in our hearts and minds and our sins and lawless deeds will be remembered no more
Well I've said it many times here
They grow in God's mercy.
.
Gods laws convicts them internally
They are able to understand
They express acts of faith
There conscience gets convicted of Gods law were they are convicted with Guilt by God internally and not guilt by a court room.
They express acts of kindness that are pleasing to God from the inner message.
Romans 2:15
Is God blessing all mankind with an inner ability.
It's called common grace.
It's called the works of the law to know right from wrong, as right from wrong hits you on your own journey before the entering the promised land.
Do you know how else a promise is binded in the conscience from God.
Is it just about a future promise you just think out loud in your head.
Or can a promise be binded in your conscience
What was binded in the conscience of the unsaved here
Romans 2:15
U
Undergrace1
Guest
I wouldnt say God's laws convicted them internally per sae. As I previously mentioned, most of the time the Israelites wandered away, got in a mess, cried out to God and he saved them from their enemies, then they wandered off againWell I've said it many times here
They grow in God's mercy.
.
Gods laws convicts them internally
They are able to understand
They express acts of faith
There conscience gets convicted of Gods law were they are convicted with Guilt by God internally and not guilt by a court room.
They express acts of kindness that are pleasing to God from the inner message.
Romans 2:15
Is God blessing all mankind with an inner ability.
It's called common grace.
It's called the works of the law to know right from wrong, as right from wrong hits you on your own journey before the entering the promised land.
Do you know how else a promise is binded in the conscience from God.
Is it just about a future promise you just think out loud in your head.
Or can a promise be binded in your conscience
What was binded in the conscience of the unsaved here
Romans 2:15
God told Moses they were a stiff necked heathen people who would soon desert him when they reached the promised land. Im not sure how all of this fits in with your conclusions
Plus, they had an external written down law, under the new covenant we do not have an external written down law, it is a law on tablets of human hearts:
You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. 2Cor3:3
Under the old covenant the law had to be read, or repeated to the people so they knew it, under the new covenant you wouldn't even need the written law:
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements(not some of the requirements) of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) Rom2:14&15
Huge difference!
Its not complicated to understand, and you shouldn't be made feel as you can't friendI wouldnt say God's laws convicted them internally per sae. As I previously mentioned, most of the time the Israelites wandered away, got in a mess, cried out to God and he saved them from their enemies, then they wandered off again
God told Moses they were a stiff necked heathen people who would soon desert him when they reached the promised land. Im not sure how all of this fits in with your conclusions
Plus, they had an external written down law, under the new covenant we do not have an external written down law, it is a law on tablets of human hearts:
You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. 2Cor3:3
Under the old covenant the law had to be read, or repeated to the people so they knew it, under the new covenant you wouldn't even need the written law:
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements(not some of the requirements) of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) Rom2:14&15
Huge difference!
That's a dirty far right Roman Catholic trick, that they make out us reformed are are all about.
There the ones causing all this animosity.
Here it is
Deuteronomy 6:8
“And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
U
Undergrace1
Guest
I dont think there is anything for me to understand to be honest with you. My previous post to you shows I do not see how your conclusions merge with the factsIts not complicated to understand, and you shouldn't be made feel as you can't friend
That's a dirty far right Roman Catholic trick, that they make out us reformed are are all about.
There the ones causing all this animosity.
Here it is
Deuteronomy 6:8
“And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
ok well I would ask, you how you can't see a message being binded between the eyes as an inner binding to conscience from God to the inner conscience as something very important.I dont think there is anything for me to understand to be honest with you. My previous post to you shows I do not see how your conclusions merge with the facts
We will sadly get no where if can't get passed this stage.
An inner binding of the conscience is no small feat that should not be over looked.
Again tho, the far right Roman Catholic would, who denies the God of the old, something they where very guilty of in ancient times to.
Anyhoo I'll leave you with it have to do now m, bye bye
Deuteronomy 6:8
“And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.