Understanding apologetics

[Nedsk]

Council of Trent states salvation is by faith baptism and obeying the TC
Paul says the TC are the letter that kills, the ministry of death and condemnation. Christians die to that law/they are released from it unto righteousness. It is impossible to bring Paul's words into line with the council of Trent statement I gave you.
The words Ten Commandments are old covenant, not new, for as you say, the moral law is within us now.
It is impossible to believe you have righteousness apart from obeying the law, as Paul preaches, if you believe your salvation hinges on the law he termed, the letter that kills, the ministry of death and condemnation

You can see then that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Now why do you tell me what it "really" means.

 

[Undergrace1]

You can see then that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Now why do you tell me what it "really" means.

For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. Rom3:28

Now tell me what that means

 

[Undergrace1]

You can see then that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Now why do you tell me what it "really" means.

If you wish to stick to the point in my post you responded to, namely the council of trent linking obeying the TC to salvation we can continue. Deviation is not allowed

 

[Nedsk]

If you wish to stick to the point in my post you responded to, namely the council of trent linking obeying the TC to salvation we can continue. Deviation is not allowed

What is tc?

 

[Undergrace1]

What is tc?

Ten Commandments. Cant be bothered to keep writing it out so I abbreviate it

 

[Jordon]

No you may be runt but you aren't a pig. They can't type

awee thanks now question is what colour runt am I

 

[Nedsk]

Ten Commandments. Cant be bothered to keep writing it out so I abbreviate it

Thank you. Just want to be sure what you're saying.

" Not everyone who says Lord Lord will enter the kingdome of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my father".

What is his will?

For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. Rom3:28

Now tell me what that means

That means we have a conflict unless James and Paul are referring to something different when they use the word law. James uses just the word law while Paul uses works of the law.

 

[Nedsk]

awee thanks now question is what colour runt am I

I don't care what color runt you are. I'm not like you it's doesn't matter to me who or what you are it matters what God's word means.

 

[Undergrace1]

Thank you. Just want to be sure what you're saying.

" Not everyone who says Lord Lord will enter the kingdome of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my father".

What is his will?


That means we have a conflict unless James and Paul are referring to something different when they use the word law. James uses just the word law while Paul uses works of the law.

Works of the law is obeying the law. The point of my post, that you responded to concerned the TC being linked to salvation. Please stick specifically to that point

 

[Nedsk]

Works of the law is obeying the law. The point of my post, that you responded to concerned the TC being linked to salvation. Please stick specifically to that point

Hang on friend, YOU referenced Paul not me. You asked me what it meant and I told you. A contradiction exists if they are James and Paul are referencing the same thing.

Next you don't get to dictate what point I stick to if you bring up another point. You are free not to reply to me if you don't like what I say or how I say it. I really don't care for bullies

 

[Undergrace1]

Hang on friend, YOU referenced Paul not me. You asked me what it meant and I told you. A contradiction exists if they are James and Paul are referencing the same thing.

Next you don't get to dictate what point I stick to if you bring up another point. You are free not to reply to me if you don't like what I say or how I say it. I really don't care for bullies

Up to you, but the post of mine you initially responded to concerned linking salvation to obeying the TC, your quote from James has nothing to do with that. So if you don't want to discuss the point of the post you originally responded to we had better leave it there

 

[Jordon]

I don't care what color runt you are. I'm not like you it's doesn't matter to me who or what you are it matters what God's word means.

I know you don't care that's obvious.

A runt is a the smallest of the litter you would choose to love, because there so tiny, get it ?

Only you choice to use the term runts are people that left the catholic faith,

Which means you used it in a bad way like this

Runts they are considered undersized, weak, inferior, and can be considered unimportant.


So how many times have you considered my questions unimportant ?

The answer is every time you answer

 

[Nedsk]

Up to you, but the post of mine you initially responded to concerned linking salvation to obeying the TC, your quote from James has nothing to do with that. So if you don't want to discuss the point of the post you originally responded to we had better leave it there

Of course it does. James says we are saved by works and not by faith alone. What are these works that he references? They can't be Paul's works of the law for reasons mentioned in the passage you posted. So what are these works? Jesus said those who do the will of the father will see heaven. Our will is our words and actions. Well what James is saying seems more like what Jesus is referring to rather then what Paul is referring to.

 

[Nedsk]

I know you don't care that's obvious.

A runt is a the smallest of the litter you would choose to love, because there so tiny, get it ?

Only you choice to use the term runts are people that left the catholic faith,

Which means you used it in a bad way like this

Runts they are considered undersized, weak, inferior, and can be considered unimportant.


So how many times have you considered my questions unimportant ?

The answer is every time you answer

I've explained why to you but you cant or wont listen so I don't care.

 

[Jordon]

so I don't care.

correct

 

[Undergrace1]

Of course it does. James says we are saved by works and not by faith alone. What are these works that he references? They can't be Paul's works of the law for reasons mentioned in the passage you posted. So what are these works? Jesus said those who do the will of the father will see heaven. Well what James is saying seems more like what Jesus is referring nti rather then what Paul is referring to.

Once again, in the post you responded to, the council of trent linked obeying the Tc to salvation/law
The verse you quoted from James just said works, not part of the discussion. Rom3:28 however, does refer to works of the law, so that was relevant. As you appear unwilling to discuss the point of the post you first responded to, we will have to leave it there

 

[Nedsk]

Once again, in the post you responded to, the council of trent linked obeying the Tc to salvation/law
The verse you quoted from James just said works, not part of the discussion. Rom3:28 however, does refer to works of the law, so that was relevant. As you appear unwilling to discuss the point of the post you first responded to, we will have to leave it there

We'll get to James in a minute.

You're assuming Paul is talking about the ten commandments when he says works of the law. I believe he's referring to mitzvot or the 613 laws of judaism. The TCs are Gods laws not man's law.

Now to James, I understand why you don't want to talk about what he has to say. The fact is he says we are saved by works and not by faith alone. These works seem pretty important if they lead to salvation and complete faith. But you don't want to discuss that. The church is saying the commandments are the works that complete faith and save us. Protestant sola fide is completely useless.

 

[Jordon]

We'll get to James in a minute.

You're assuming Paul is talking about the ten commandments when he says works of the law. I believe he's referring to mitzvot or the 613 laws of judaism. The TCs are Gods laws not man's law.

Now to James, I understand why you don't want to talk about what he has to say. The fact is he says we are saved by works and not by faith alone. These works seem pretty important if they lead to salvation and complete faith. But you don't want to discuss that. The church is saying the commandments are the works that complete faith and save us. Protestant sola fide is completely useless.

The Roman Catholic theology is always ruling out faith alone with the if statements in scripture, that's the issue and there personal agenda. They place human conscience to be the final authority of your salvation.

We don't rule out works for anything. I repeat we don't rule out works for anything. Roman Catholic church does, it rules out faith alone, we don't. It rules out grace alone, we don't.

We say the works you do are proof you can have your assurance.

The far left wing of Roman Catholic hang there whole doctrine on ruling out faith alone on this




James 2:24

New International Version



24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

We don't rule out faith alone all Togeather, like the Roman Catholic church does, who hang there whole church belief on this one meaning.

We include grace in here to.


The Roman Catholic church is in error.

 

[Undergrace1]

We'll get to James in a minute.

You're assuming Paul is talking about the ten commandments when he says works of the law. I believe he's referring to mitzvot or the 613 laws of judaism. The TCs are Gods laws not man's law.

Now to James, I understand why you don't want to talk about what he has to say. The fact is he says we are saved by works and not by faith alone. These works seem pretty important if they lead to salvation and complete faith. But you don't want to discuss that. The church is saying the commandments are the works that complete faith and save us. Protestant sola fide is completely useless.

We are specifically discussing law, once this conversation is over I will happily address James
Rom3:28
In Rom 3:20-30 Paul is stating you cannot be righteous/justified by law. Which law can you not be justified by obeying? The law handed down at Sanai is often referred to in two parts, the moral law of the TC, and Mosaic, or legalistic law of rite, ritual and ceremony. The mosaic law of rite, ritual and ceremony could faultlessly be obeyed, even by the worst of sinners(Phil3:6) So, if there was no moral law you could indeed be justified by law, but in that passage Paul is stating you cannot be justified by law. Therefore, Rom3:28 does not refer to the legalistic, but moral law

 

[Nedsk]

We are specifically discussing law, once this conversation is over I will happily address James
Rom3:28
In Rom 3:20-30 Paul is stating you cannot be righteous/justified by law. Which law can you not be justified by obeying? The law handed down at Sanai is often referred to in two parts, the moral law of the TC, and Mosaic, or legalistic law of rite, ritual and ceremony. The mosaic law of rite, ritual and ceremony could faultlessly be obeyed, even by the worst of sinners(Phil3:6) So, if there was no moral law you could indeed be justified by law, but in that passage Paul is stating you cannot be justified by law. Therefore, Rom3:28 does not refer to the legalistic, but moral law

No where does Rom 3:20-30 refer to the ten commandments as works of the law.

James tell us how we are saved and fits with Jesus' words. Works and works of the law must be different other you have a contradiction to resolve. Jesus himself violated the works of the law but not the TCs