Unconditional love and the church's approach to homosexuality
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Your first sentence is so so true.
Very sad also that Christians shoot their own wounded.
We are called to doctors and nurses to the wounded.
Isaiah 42:1-4
The Servant of the Lord
1 “Behold! My Servant whom I uphold,
My Elect One in whom My soul delights!
I have put My Spirit upon Him;
He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.
2 He will not cry out, nor raise His voice,
Nor cause His voice to be heard in the street.
3 A bruised reed He will not break,
And smoking flax He will not quench;
He will bring forth justice for truth.
4 He will not fail nor be discouraged,
Till He has established justice in the earth;
And the coastlands shall wait for His law.”
Also in Matt 12:20
Very sad also that Christians shoot their own wounded.
We are called to doctors and nurses to the wounded.
Isaiah 42:1-4
The Servant of the Lord
1 “Behold! My Servant whom I uphold,
My Elect One in whom My soul delights!
I have put My Spirit upon Him;
He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.
2 He will not cry out, nor raise His voice,
Nor cause His voice to be heard in the street.
3 A bruised reed He will not break,
And smoking flax He will not quench;
He will bring forth justice for truth.
4 He will not fail nor be discouraged,
Till He has established justice in the earth;
And the coastlands shall wait for His law.”
Also in Matt 12:20
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S
post 1293 in yr response to Bill
JerryInBoston, post: 4600725, member: 306686"]On the one hand you say a man can live his entire life running with the devil and be saved in the last moments of his life. On the other hand you say a man following Christ his entire life who renounces his faith in the last moments of his life was never saved.
Or are you saying that atonement is indeed limited, as John Calvin put it?
that is where Calvin came into the picture...with limited atonement
then, in response to my post wherein I laughed because you introduced Calvin you said
"JerryInBoston, post: 4600732, member: 306686"]Is atonement limited?
I answered in post 1319
SophieT, post: 4601056, member: 303760"]are you a Calvinist?
since you were now introducing limited atonement and it seems defensive of Calvinism
to which you replied in post 1328
"JerryInBoston, post: 4601084, member: 306686"]I'm born again, a follower of Jesus Christ. And you?
so look no further as to who does not answer direct questions. as far as me not answering about limited atonement, you were already diverting posts and not directly responding to others...mostly a back and forth between you and EG of insults and other sundry wastes of time...which seems to happen when people address your diversions so I was not going to play
besides, snarking you are a born again follower of Jesus Christ and then going 'and you?' is just snark. I suppose you will deny that, but its' pretty plain when reading other of your responses to people.
and finally my post 1332
"SophieT, post: 4601142, member: 303760"]are you a Calvinist was the question
you are not helping yourself there fellow. YOU were the one who brought up Calvinsim
and your response post 1340
JerryInBoston, post: 4601180, member: 306686"]I asked a very simple question, which you refused to answer. Perhaps you ascribe to a man-made title or denomination to describe your faith; not me: I follow Christ
since there is no reason to become so defensive when asked if you are a Calvinist, I take it you possibly are. No one said you do not believe in Jesus and the only people I have ever seen become so defensive are actually Calvinists and saying you follow Christ does not mean you are not
it's just really goofy the way you avoid answering direct questions and snark for no reason.
no I do not believe in limited atonement. DO YOU? and ARE YOU A CALVINIST? notice I am not saying you are not a Christian
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Atonement is limited, and it's limited by God to the elect, those that are faithful to God. Atonement is certainly not universal, otherwise there would be no hell and everyone would go to heaven. But not everyone goes to heaven, in fact most people do end up in hell; only the elect few that Jesus said are on the narrow way and go through the difficult gate get to heaven.
S
never said atonement was universal in the sense everyone is saved and the Bible does not teach that
HOWEVER, God does say WHOSOEVER will...meaning salvation is for all even though not all will accept Christ
guess I was right then. you are basically talking about Calvinism
of course you can say otherwise if you are not
seems we just hit on another reason you dodge
HOWEVER, God does say WHOSOEVER will...meaning salvation is for all even though not all will accept Christ
guess I was right then. you are basically talking about Calvinism
of course you can say otherwise if you are not
seems we just hit on another reason you dodge
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The gate was not said to be difficult, but narrow, and it is Jesus Who said so, and called Himself the gate.
I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. They will come in and go out, and find pasture. John 10:9
Jesus called His way easy.
Matthew 11:28-30
I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. They will come in and go out, and find pasture. John 10:9
Jesus called His way easy.
Matthew 11:28-30
never said atonement was universal in the sense everyone is saved and the Bible does not teach that
HOWEVER, God does say WHOSOEVER will...meaning salvation is for all even though not all will accept Christ
guess I was right then. you are basically talking about Calvinism
of course you can say otherwise if you are not
seems we just hit on another reason you dodge
HOWEVER, God does say WHOSOEVER will...meaning salvation is for all even though not all will accept Christ
guess I was right then. you are basically talking about Calvinism
of course you can say otherwise if you are not
seems we just hit on another reason you dodge
“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day."
John 12:31-32
John 12:31-32
Romans 8:29 "For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers."
Acts 13:48. "And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed."
Luke 18:7. "And will not God give justice to his elect, who cry to him day and night? Will he delay long over them?"
Titus 1:1. "Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the sake of the faith of God's elect and their knowledge of the truth, which accords with
Ephesians 1:4. "Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him."
Romans 8:29-30. "For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified."
Romans 8:33. "Who shall bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies."
You are forgetting a couple of things in that statement.
#1 We do not enter into heaven until God gives his final judgement. Baptism in Jesus' name is a guarantee that you will make it, yes, but you must still live up to the expectations of the ten commandments and love thy neighbour, do unto others as you would have them do to you etc etc. The one thing the Holy Spirit tells me over and over is that love is the key to it all. It is what the world is lacking and what is dragging us into such darkness. The absence of love is what causes sin and it is lacking everywhere at the moment.
#2 At the end of our lives we experience something we Catholics call 'the particular judgement' You'd probably know it as near death experience because of all the accounts people who have died and come back have shared. The part that is not so often shared is the visions of damnation because everyone wants to hear about the amazing place that heaven is. I can tell you now that plenty of baptised people have come back with stories showing them they are on the road to hell unless they change.
Eternal life once gained cannot be lost. But we receive it in full after our judgement from Jesus and God the Father. And to obtain it, you must not be a lazy Christian whom gets baptised then spends the rest of their life lukewarm to the gospel and works of faith. Especially in these times. God is cleaning out his house and people are falling away because they are not true believers.
These people will not make it into heaven if they do not change their ways and wake up from their faith slumber. I would have had no hope, even though I am baptised and confirmed as per our tradition, until Jesus came and gave me an illumination of my soul. I cal tell you now that I was on the road to perdition myself because Jesus himself showed me. I've already shared my experience in this thread.
#1 We do not enter into heaven until God gives his final judgement. Baptism in Jesus' name is a guarantee that you will make it, yes, but you must still live up to the expectations of the ten commandments and love thy neighbour, do unto others as you would have them do to you etc etc. The one thing the Holy Spirit tells me over and over is that love is the key to it all. It is what the world is lacking and what is dragging us into such darkness. The absence of love is what causes sin and it is lacking everywhere at the moment.
#2 At the end of our lives we experience something we Catholics call 'the particular judgement' You'd probably know it as near death experience because of all the accounts people who have died and come back have shared. The part that is not so often shared is the visions of damnation because everyone wants to hear about the amazing place that heaven is. I can tell you now that plenty of baptised people have come back with stories showing them they are on the road to hell unless they change.
Eternal life once gained cannot be lost. But we receive it in full after our judgement from Jesus and God the Father. And to obtain it, you must not be a lazy Christian whom gets baptised then spends the rest of their life lukewarm to the gospel and works of faith. Especially in these times. God is cleaning out his house and people are falling away because they are not true believers.
These people will not make it into heaven if they do not change their ways and wake up from their faith slumber. I would have had no hope, even though I am baptised and confirmed as per our tradition, until Jesus came and gave me an illumination of my soul. I cal tell you now that I was on the road to perdition myself because Jesus himself showed me. I've already shared my experience in this thread.