Unconditional love and the church's approach to homosexuality

[SophieT]

I don't lack faith, but you lack understanding that people can come to faith and fall away.

this is what I have a problem with

I can't read people's hearts....that's Gods territory. again, what about that parable about the one sheep that was lost?

not holding my breath though cause you do not seem to want to answer that

I also won't bother if you come back with one of your deflective questions that has nothing to do with what I said

you know, you are really only fooling yourself if you cannot or will not think about things and maybe try to see past all tried and true answers that help you sleep at night (shrugs again)

 

[SophieT]

Easy. People do odd things when under great stress or in fear of losing their lives. Peter proved that he was human after all. He boasted that he would never deny Christ. He found out that he was not as good as he thought. That happens a lot to the proud and self confident. Peter was transformed by the life of Christ. He did not deny Christ again. He was martyred.

good points

 

[SophieT]

Don't forget, Peter was then one who Jesus got to walk on the water with him. He'd experienced great miracles and yet his faith shriveled during Jesus' most dark hours.

God did one miracle after another for the Israelites and they could not wait to go their own way (I don't think we are any better by the way, but we have the Holy Spirit indwelling us and not just resting on someone like in the OT)

it's easy to say what we might do until we are actually faced with it

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And thus proving that if you fall away you're not necessarily an Antichrist.

If you repent God's mercy is limitless. He loves taking broken ugly things and making them beautiful again.

Salvation can only be lost if one turns their back on God refuses to repent.

I agree with everything except your last line

Salvation can not be lost. If it can We have conditional life. Not eternal life. and we are saved by works. Not by grace

 

[eternally-gratefull]

are you a Calvinist?

He does not believe in perseverance of the saints. He would be more of an arminian. But I am not sure he is that either

 

[eternally-gratefull]

trying to get a straight answer out of Jerry is like trying to nail jello to the wall

he has not responded contextually to any post I directed towards him, other than to deflect and try to change the subject

that says more than if he would actually answer. for one thing, it's not very honest. maybe that is the best he can do. I don't know

It is sad. sadder yet they either can not see it. or do not want to see it themselves..

 

[JerryInBoston]

this is what I have a problem with

I can't read people's hearts....that's Gods territory. again, what about that parable about the one sheep that was lost?

not holding my breath though cause you do not seem to want to answer that

I also won't bother if you come back with one of your deflective questions that has nothing to do with what I said

you know, you are really only fooling yourself if you cannot or will not think about things and maybe try to see past all tried and true answers that help you sleep at night (shrugs again)

We are called to discern, to beware of, to correct ourselves prior to judging sinful behavior, etc. All the people in the OSAS camp that knew and were familiar with Dave Gass, Paul Maxwell, Josh Harris, and the many others that professed faith in Christ as Savior and Lord, preached the gospel message, taught through the Bible, etc, believed God knew their hearts that they were eternally saved. However, when they fell away and renounced Christ completely, their response: they were never truly saved. Does that mean they were false teachers from the beginning? Or can it be that they did have faith, God knew their hearts because they did have faith, but they were once saved, but they walked away, they apostacized, they succumbed to temptations: the lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh, pride of life, the world, and the devil?

Do you know anyone personally who claims they are supposedly born again, they profess Jesus as savior and Lord, which means they upposedly came to repentance and faith in Jesus, but is not living a changed life, and are still doing all the sinful things and going to all the sinful places and saying all the same sinful talk they engaged in before they proclaimed to you that they were "born again"? And if you do know someone like that, do you consider them eternally saved?

 

[JerryInBoston]

are you a Calvinist?

I'm born again, a follower of Jesus Christ. And you?

 

[JerryInBoston]

I agree with everything except your last line

Salvation can not be lost. If it can We have conditional life. Not eternal life. and we are saved by works. Not by grace

Someone can come to faith and be saved. Once saved, someone can stop believing for whatever reason and walk away from faith, and be lost again.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Someone can come to faith and be saved. Once saved, someone can stop believing for whatever reason and walk away from faith, and be lost again.

Someone can CLAIM to have faith, and not be saved. And stop believing (because they never had true saving faith) and walk away.

John said they were never of us. If they were of us, they would have never left.

Your argument is with John My friend.

A person who has eternal life will never die as Jesus promised.

If they can die. Jesus lied. And as I have proven. You have a person being saved by works.

You are preaching a works based gospel my friend. I highly recommend you ask God to soften your heart to the truth of his gospel.

 

[CS1]

We are called to discern, to beware of, to correct ourselves prior to judging sinful behavior, etc. All the people in the OSAS camp that knew and were familiar with Dave Gass, Paul Maxwell, Josh Harris, and the many others that professed faith in Christ as Savior and Lord, preached the gospel message, taught through the Bible, etc, believed God knew their hearts that they were eternally saved. However, when they fell away and renounced Christ completely, their response: they were never truly saved. Does that mean they were false teachers from the beginning? Or can it be that they did have faith, God knew their hearts because they did have faith, but they were once saved, but they walked away, they apostacized, they succumbed to temptations: the lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh, pride of life, the world, and the devil?

Do you know anyone personally who claims they are supposedly born again, they profess Jesus as savior and Lord, which means they upposedly came to repentance and faith in Jesus, but is not living a changed life, and are still doing all the sinful things and going to all the sinful places and saying all the same sinful talk they engaged in before they proclaimed to you that they were "born again"? And if you do know someone like that, do you consider them eternally saved?

I do not know any of those people however, God knew them and their hearts before and after faith. Jesus said in the last days' great deceivers will come and IF Possible even deceive the very ELECT! Oh my, the very Elect? How can this be?

it is simple when a man places his trust in man(man's intellect) over God's Word you open yourself for deception.

Was not Judas sent out by Jesus and did not Judas to perform signs and wonders FROM GOD? Judas working of miracles and casting out the devil was not by the power of the devil but through the authority of the Lord Jesus Christ.


Dave Gass, Paul Maxwell, and Josh Harris, if they have abandoned their faith it was because they were judas from the beginning and God fully knew they were. Only those who were caught up in the personality of the person will be hurt by them. Jesus will still go on unaffected by these types, and the many others over the years.

They came back rejoicing " Even devil are subject to your name," Jesus said to them: do not rejoice that devil are subject to you

BUT Rather rejoice YOUR NAMES ARE WRITTEN DOWN in the Book of Life.

Listen God will do what HIS word says it will do even if those who do are "Judas". WHY?

Because those who were healed did not glorify Judas they glorified God.

 

[SophieT]

I'm born again, a follower of Jesus Christ. And you?

are you a Calvinist was the question

you are not helping yourself there fellow. YOU were the one who brought up Calvinsim

 

[SophieT]

We are called to discern, to beware of, to correct ourselves prior to judging sinful behavior, etc. All the people in the OSAS camp that knew and were familiar with Dave Gass, Paul Maxwell, Josh Harris, and the many others that professed faith in Christ as Savior and Lord, preached the gospel message, taught through the Bible, etc, believed God knew their hearts that they were eternally saved. However, when they fell away and renounced Christ completely, their response: they were never truly saved. Does that mean they were false teachers from the beginning? Or can it be that they did have faith, God knew their hearts because they did have faith, but they were once saved, but they walked away, they apostacized, they succumbed to temptations: the lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh, pride of life, the world, and the devil?

Do you know anyone personally who claims they are supposedly born again, they profess Jesus as savior and Lord, which means they upposedly came to repentance and faith in Jesus, but is not living a changed life, and are still doing all the sinful things and going to all the sinful places and saying all the same sinful talk they engaged in before they proclaimed to you that they were "born again"? And if you do know someone like that, do you consider them eternally saved?

oh I can discern all right.

I have seen Christians do some things that make me question their salvation. And vice versa to be sure.

Again, how about that lost sheep parable. the sheep was a sheep just like the other 99 but got lost and had to be found by the shepherd. THE SHEPHERD.

I wonder if the other 99 sat around and gossiped about that one that wandered off? I have been gossiped about and some really awful things said that were not true at all. I mean awful things. My character assassinated by people who should have known better...but you know, throw a bone at a dog and it's going to chew it.

I say pray for people that wander off. There are reasons for everything. I cannot answer your questions on Gass, Maxwell and Harris and neither can YOU. You only see what is visible but have no idea of what goes on in the spiritual realm.

Do you know anyone personally who claims they are supposedly born again, they profess Jesus as savior and Lord, which means they upposedly came to repentance and faith in Jesus, but is not living a changed life, and are still doing all the sinful things and going to all the sinful places and saying all the same sinful talk they engaged in before they proclaimed to you that they were "born again"? And if you do know someone like that, do you consider them eternally saved?

I have seen all kinds of things. All kinds. I have learned the hard way to be cautious and have come to the conclusion that what Paul said about only wanting to know Christ in a person is basically the better way.

I will tell you what though. If my salvation were up to Christians? I would have gone Pagan a long time ago. really

Praise God, He is the One who keeps me.

 

[SophieT]

It is sad. sadder yet they either can not see it. or do not want to see it themselves..

well he did it again LOL! smh

 

[eternally-gratefull]

oh I can discern all right.

I have seen Christians do some things that make me question their salvation. And vice versa to be sure.

Again, how about that lost sheep parable. the sheep was a sheep just like the other 99 but got lost and had to be found by the shepherd. THE SHEPHERD.

I wonder if the other 99 sat around and gossiped about that one that wandered off? I have been gossiped about and some really awful things said that were not true at all. I mean awful things. My character assassinated by people who should have known better...but you know, throw a bone at a dog and it's going to chew it.

I say pray for people that wander off. There are reasons for everything. I cannot answer your questions on Gass, Maxwell and Harris and neither can YOU. You only see what is visible but have no idea of what goes on in the spiritual realm.



I have seen all kinds of things. All kinds. I have learned the hard way to be cautious and have come to the conclusion that what Paul said about only wanting to know Christ in a person is basically the better way.

I will tell you what though. If my salvation were up to Christians? I would have gone Pagan a long time ago. really

Praise God, He is the One who keeps me.

Amen

If a person walks away. we have no way to determine if they are one of Gods sheep or if they are not.

So how can we judge if they were ever saved or not, If they are a prodigal child who will be chastened, or an illegitimate child who will not. A person who had true saving faith vs a person who had mere belief. The list goes on and on and on.

we are not God. so how dare we judge!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

well he did it again LOL! smh

we have seen it so much from people like him. You would think we would not be surprised anymore

 

[SophieT]

we have seen it so much from people like him. You would think we would not be surprised anymore

it just make me sad

there really are no sides to take and nobody wins...just more division and no real answers

IMO, there should never be a time we quit learning...and you do not learn if you think you already have all the answers

sigh

 

[SophieT]

one of my favorite passages of scripture: it's something to pray actually (in the first person)

15 For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all God's people, 16 I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. 17 I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better.
18 I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in his holy people, 19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is the same as the mighty strength
20 he exerted when he raised Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, 21 far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the present age but also in the one to come.
22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.
Ephesians 1

and this to people who were already saved...so much more in God to learn and know

 

[eternally-gratefull]

it just make me sad

there really are no sides to take and nobody wins...just more division and no real answers

IMO, there should never be a time we quit learning...and you do not learn if you think you already have all the answers

sigh

amen, the time we think we know it all is the time we have destroyed our ability to learn

 

[JerryInBoston]

are you a Calvinist was the question

you are not helping yourself there fellow. YOU were the one who brought up Calvinsim

I asked a very simple question, which you refused to answer. Perhaps you ascribe to a man-made title or denomination to describe your faith; not me: I follow Christ.