Unconditional love and the church's approach to homosexuality

[Mark47Oz]

Before I get crucified for 'misuse' of the word Eunuch, let me clarify it's meaning in Matthew 19

#1) Unmarried
#2) May or may not be physically castrated
#3) Does not have sexual relations with women PLUS does not have sexual relations at all. (A castrated Eunuch is incapable of sex)

When I say 'Eunuchs for Christ' I mean to become chaste, non sexual, celibate.

 

[49]

There is a push, at least in the U.S. to normalize perversion. Forcing places of worship to be accepting would be a big win for the evil one. They have infiltrated about every aspect of our lives. Gay couples on TV commercials. Teaching grade school children its normal. Nevada has a tranny as "miss" Nevada. Boys with a tuck playing girls sports. In one aspect, true bible based churches, are the last line of defence in this world gone mad.

And a kid's tv network pushing shows (including cartoons) with same sex "parents"...

 

[DADZ]

I believe that the way many churches and Christians approach the issue of homosexuality is unbiblical.

Churches market themselves as offering unconditional love.
However, all too often they use a bait and switch tactic whereby they offer unconditional love to tempt people in and yet once 'captured', it is discovered that this love and acceptance is conditional on the newcomer changing in whichever way the church 'elders' dictate they should change.
If the church member doesn't change, they may find that they are not included in ways that they were before.

This is manipulation and spiritual abuse, and is absolutely not the kind of unconditional love offered by Jesus.

Before anybody says that homosexuality is forbidden by the Bible and that I'm "ignoring scripture"...
Prostitution is also forbidden in the Bible, and we all know how Jesus asked people not to throw stones and cast judgement.

You see, Jesus uses love to define scripture, and yet humans use scripture to define love.

Jesus reached out to the marginalised, and yet we reach out to condemn.
Perhaps it's in our fallen nature to want to play God?

Lastly, the reason I'm sticking up for homosexuals and using them as an example here is not because I'm gay myself, just as the reason why I'm against racism is not because I am black.

Black people for the most part are insulted when you use the comparision of them to homosexuals

 

[DADZ]

Love is not unconditional, thats the first problem.
Second problem is a gay person is not supposed to be a church member to begin with, according to the bible.


1 Corinthians 5:9-13

New International Version
I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.
What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”

WELL, THERE GOES 90% OF MY CONGREGATION

 

[DADZ]

Salvation is not “unconditional”.

Was there a follow-up?

REALLY, WHATS THE CONDITIONS THEN?

 

[DeanM]

REALLY, WHATS THE CONDITIONS THEN?

The scripture is posted above. But some ive noticed choose to ignore it.

 

[Unearthed]

Black people for the most part are insulted when you use the comparision of them to homosexuals

If you think that's what I've done, you need to learn to read.

 

[BibleStudent60]

Yes, biblically speaking homosexuality is plain wrong. No, conversion therapy doesn't work.

Indeed, homosexual acts are condemned in the Bible and there are many scriptures already highlighted in these postings that clearly denote the Biblical position. If a Christian has homosexual tendencies and inclinations, but does NOT act on them, then this person would be like the rest of us who grapple with worldly inclinations, including periodic immoral thoughts of a heterosexual nature, even though we do not on them.

Just because behavior appears to be "natural" by the currently worldly reasoning does NOT make it scriptural. For example, getting drunk and getting high on marijuana with friends and letting someone else drive one home as a designated driver is totally acceptable in society (i.e. it is just viewed as fun, as long as one is "responsible"). Even having adulterous affairs is viewed with little societal scorn, as these individuals can ascend to the highest levels of corporate America and its politics. We Christians know that all such behavior is not acceptable by Bible standards.

As our world spins into more spiritual decay, sexual fluidity (pansexual, polygender, omnigender, etc.) is becoming totally acceptable in society, along with "getting high" on certain substances, along with homosexual practices (into this category, spiritistic practices must be inserted, but that is another topic for another time). Spiritual truth seekers avoid all such activity, even if one has a natural tendency toward this abhorrent practices.

Ephesians 4: 19 reminds us  about these individuals who "[have] gone past all moral sense, they gave themselves over to brazen conduct to practice every sort of uncleanness with greediness."

 

[CS1]

If you think that's what I've done, you need to learn to read.

"Lastly, the reason I'm sticking up for homosexuals and using them as an example here is not because I'm gay myself, just as the reason why I'm against racism is not because I am black."

You say one needs to learn how to read then you too need to learn how to write better.

you are equating racism & homosexuality as the same. You are making those who disagree with the acts of homosexuality the same as one who doesn't like a person who is of a different color or ethnicity. You are saying standing up for homosexuality and those who will not accept it just as moral as one who stands against Racism.

IT IS NOT. And being black doesn't make your opinion valid when it is morally deceptive.

 

[Wansvic]

WELL, THERE GOES 90% OF MY CONGREGATION

"To whom much is given, much will be required." (Luke 12:48) "Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction." 2 Tim. 4:2

 

[DADZ]

If you think that's what I've done, you need to learn to read.

I read fine thank you. Thread about homosexuality, your post states about racism and blacks, by the way, are blacks the only group that is affected by racism?

 

[DADZ]

"Lastly, the reason I'm sticking up for homosexuals and using them as an example here is not because I'm gay myself, just as the reason why I'm against racism is not because I am black."

You say one needs to learn how to read then you too need to learn how to write better.

you are equating racism & homosexuality as the same. You are making those who disagree with the acts of homosexuality the same as one who doesn't like a person who is of a different color or ethnicity. You are saying standing up for homosexuality and those who will not accept it just as moral as one who stands against Racism.

IT IS NOT. And being black doesn't make your opinion valid when it is morally deceptive.

haha, thanks for all that.

 

[DADZ]

The scripture is posted above. But some ive noticed choose to ignore it.

I dont see any scripture above.
A gift, any gift, and salvation is described as a gift many, may times, is unconditional. Of course one must accept the gift if you want to consider that a condition.
but by definition love is uncoditional

 

[CS1]

I dont see any scripture above.
A gift, any gift, and salvation is described as a gift many, may times, is unconditional. Of course one must accept the gift if you want to consider that a condition.
but by definition love is uncoditional

Gods love unconditional man's love is perverted. Many well-intended Christians speak of the unconditional love of God as an acceptance of one's sin, it is not. God is able to love unconditionally as HE has demonstrated through the giving of HIS SON for our sins.

Yet God has not one bit compromised HIS Holiness to do so. We all must be under the blood of Jesus and not under the lifestyle of sin, thinking God's love will wink at it. That is all sin not just homosexuality. Nor can we point to another sin to justify a sin we are currently ADDICTED TO because of sexual idolatry which homosexuality is an abomination also.

 

[DADZ]

Gods love unconditional man's love is perverted. Many well-intended Christians speak of the unconditional love of God as an acceptance of one's sin, it is not. God is able to love unconditionally as HE has demonstrated through the giving of HIS SON for our sins.

Yet God has not one bit compromised HIS Holiness to do so. We all must be under the blood of Jesus and not under the lifestyle of sin, thinking God's love will wink at it. That is all sin not just homosexuality. Nor can we point to another sin to justify a sin we are currently ADDICTED TO because of sexual idolatry which homosexuality is an abomination also.

God doesnt wink at sin because ALL of it has already been forgiven. Why harp on homosexuals? Why harp on any one sin? If a person is sinning, thats between them and God. Isnt the church suppose to be for the spiritually ill? "I come to heal the sick, not those who are healthy"
The only time I would want to kick someone out of the church is if they are trying to spread lies. Lies of any kind. The truth will set you free.

 

[CS1]

God doesnt wink at sin because ALL of it has already been forgiven. Why harp on homosexuals? Why harp on any one sin? If a person is sinning, thats between them and God. Isnt the church suppose to be for the spiritually ill? "I come to heal the sick, not those who are healthy"
The only time I would want to kick someone out of the church is if they are trying to spread lies. Lies of any kind. The truth will set you free.

I do not think anyone is harping on homosexuality. yet I do not see current laws made to teach drunkness, theft, murder, and many other sins as normal things as homosexuality. Califonia leadership has and the SCOTUS overruled in favor for Transgender students who now can use the girl's restroom and locker room. No the church is not supposed to be for the spiritually ill, the church is to be a place where the spiritual ill is Healed, set free, and delivered, and saved. what doctor, who has the medicine to cure someone will not give it but pat them on the back and say God loves you just as you are and go home and die. They would be sued for malpractice.

Many pastors and preachers will answer to the living God for appeasing sinful lifestyles. All sin is forgiving once you accept Jesus Christ as Lord. We are saved from our sins, not in our sins. No one is saying to kick homosexuals out of the church. BUT if a drunkard, adulterer, homosexual, or any other sin that is known that person must respect surrender, and received from the Lord salvation.

this sin is not just an individual sin it is a sin that has overreaching demonic strongholds.
Law of the land, public school systems, persecution, AND PERVERTING OF THE WORD OF God.

 

[DADZ]

I do not think anyone is harping on homosexuality. yet I do not see current laws made to teach drunkness, theft, murder, and many other sins as normal things as homosexuality. Califonia leadership has and the SCOTUS overruled in favor for Transgender students who now can use the girl's restroom and locker room. No the church is not supposed to be for the spiritually ill, the church is to be a place where the spiritual ill is Healed, set free, and delivered, and saved. what doctor, who has the medicine to cure someone will not give it but pat them on the back and say God loves you just as you are and go home and die. They would be sued for malpractice.

Many pastors and preachers will answer to the living God for appeasing sinful lifestyles. All sin is forgiving once you accept Jesus Christ as Lord. We are saved from our sins, not in our sins. No one is saying to kick homosexuals out of the church. BUT if a drunkard, adulterer, homosexual, or any other sin that is known that person must respect surrender, and received from the Lord salvation.

this sin is not just an individual sin it is a sin that has overreaching demonic strongholds.
Law of the land, public school systems, persecution, AND PERVERTING OF THE WORD OF God.

U SOUND LIKE UR ARGUING WITH YOURSELF
ALL SIN IS FORGIVEN, ALL, ALL, ALL. HOW CAN I HAVE UNFORGIVEN SIN AND ONCE I ACCEPT JESUS IT IS SUDDENLY FORGIVEN? DID HE DIE AGAIN? NO
HE DIED ONCE FOR ALL SINS,

 

[CS1]

U SOUND LIKE UR ARGUING WITH YOURSELF
ALL SIN IS FORGIVEN, ALL, ALL, ALL. HOW CAN I HAVE UNFORGIVEN SIN AND ONCE I ACCEPT JESUS IT IS SUDDENLY FORGIVEN? DID HE DIE AGAIN? NO
HE DIED ONCE FOR ALL SINS,

Not at all, dying for sin so one can be free from sin. many having taken the forgiveness of sin as I can continue in the very sin. As if God fully understands willful sin and disobedience because I am unable to overcome this type of sin. IF your understanding of ALL sin " is taken away even that what I have yet to do. that is not correct. The payment for all sin has been made.

 

[JerryInBoston]

God doesnt wink at sin because ALL of it has already been forgiven. Why harp on homosexuals? Why harp on any one sin? If a person is sinning, thats between them and God. Isnt the church suppose to be for the spiritually ill? "I come to heal the sick, not those who are healthy"
The only time I would want to kick someone out of the church is if they are trying to spread lies. Lies of any kind. The truth will set you free.

When Jesus said "I come to heal", the operative word is heal. Jesus also said "repent." When you are healed by Christ, you will want to repent and stop sinning and show your love for God. Loving God necessarily requires repenting of not only how you think, and of the direction your life is taking, but also of your sin.

There is a huge lie propagated by false teachers, which comes directly from the father of lies, which is this: as long as you have accepted Jesus into your heart, you can go on sinning and not fear going to hell. Jesus told his disciples to "teach all that I have commanded."

Jesus expects those who follow him be obedient to his commands, and repenting of sin in your life is one of Jesus's commands.

 

[DADZ]

When Jesus said "I come to heal", the operative word is heal. Jesus also said "repent." When you are healed by Christ, you will want to repent and stop sinning and show your love for God. Loving God necessarily requires repenting of not only how you think, and of the direction your life is taking, but also of your sin.

There is a huge lie propagated by false teachers, which comes directly from the father of lies, which is this: as long as you have accepted Jesus into your heart, you can go on sinning and not fear going to hell. Jesus told his disciples to "teach all that I have commanded."

Jesus expects those who follow him be obedient to his commands, and repenting of sin in your life is one of Jesus's commands.

yeeeeeeeeeeA, NO. FIRST, U NEED TO REMMEBER THAT WHEN JESUS WAS ALIVE, THE FATHERS MERCY HAD NOT YET BEEN BESTOWED UPON ALL OF MANKIND.
You are right, when you are healed (accept the gift of the Holy Spirit) you will want to repent and stop sinning. U only have to repent once though. Once I do a U turn, if I U turn again, then Im headed in the original WRONG direction. Our sin is already gone, done, vanished, kaput. God has already wiped the board clean. God forgive me for I have sinned. today I......blah blah blah,,,,,,GOD replies, "what sin"
ONCE THE BILL IS PAID IN FULL, IT IS ALWAYS PAID IN FULL. If we want to ask forgiveness from people we have harmed, and pay restitution, that is another issue.
Jesus does expect us to be obidient to His commands. And what were the only two he isted in order. Love God...Love your neighbor. The rest he did not put in any list of importace.

So, go look it up, what did Jesus command? Did he say dont murderr? Lie, cheat , fornicate?

• List of 50 of Jesus' Commands Statement of each command and scripture reference.
• Commands #1-6 Repent, do not be troubled, follow me, rejoice, let your light shine, honor God's law.
• Commands #7-12 Be reconciled, no adultery, keep your word, go the second mile, love your enemies, be perfect.
• Commands #13-17 Practice secret disciplines, lay up treasures in heaven, seek the Kingdom of God, judge not, Don't throw pearls to pigs.
• Commands #18-21 Ask, seek, knock, do unto others, choose the narrow way, beware of false prophets.
• Commands #22-25 Pray, be shrewd as serpents, fear God, listen to God.
• Commands #26-29 Take my yoke, honor your parents, beware false teaching, deny yourself.
• Commands #30-32 Do not despise children, go to those who offend you, forgive offenders.
• Commands #33-34 Beware of covetousness, honor marriage.
• Commands #35-37 Lead by being a servant, make church a house of prayer, pray in faith.
• Commands #38-39 Bring in the poor, render unto Caesar.
• Commands #40-41 Love the Lord, love your neighbor.
• Commands #42-43 Be born again, await my return.
• Commands #44-45 Celebrate the Lord's supper, keep my commandments.
• Commands #46-47 Watch and pray, feed my sheep.
• Commands #48-50 Make disciples, teach disciples to obey, receive God's power.

That is a comprehensive list of all of His commands. SOme are basic repetitions. i.e. the first 1-6 commands, has 6 of them. as does 7-12
the next highest number is 5 commands hence 13-17 then 4, hence 18-21 and so on.

I DO NOT SEE DONT MURDER, LIE, CHEAT STEAL, ETC ETC. ON THERE