Unconditional love and the church's approach to homosexuality

[Mark47Oz]

You cannot be a Christian and be gay. To say you are a Christian and are gay is to act self serving.....and not in compliance with scriptures.
We must be without ongoing sinfulness in order to be in compliance with God's word and thus able to refer to ourselves as...Christian.

One can choose any self serving rationale one wishes ...that does not make a sinful act in compliance with God. You, as with all sinners, must repent and then turn away from a sinful lifestyle.

Wy are you alone?....God cuts us all off if we do not comply with His commandments.

Your answer shows that you have zero understanding of who we are.

I'm gay. It's not self serving and I most definitely would never ever in a thousand years chosen to be like this and scorned by so many. It's just a thing that happens to some people. I asked God to take it away. Many times. And he didn't.

I listened to the judgement of men and ran away. Far away. And then God came looking for me. I pray in tongues, I hear and see in the spirit, I love Jesus and the Trinity.

What was that you were saying about the two not coexisting again?

 

[shittim]

sadly, you have no understanding of who you are.

 

[CS1]

Your answer shows that you have zero understanding of who we are.

I'm gay. It's not self serving and I most definitely would never ever in a thousand years chosen to be like this and scorned by so many. It's just a thing that happens to some people. I asked God to take it away. Many times. And he didn't.

I listened to the judgement of men and ran away. Far away. And then God came looking for me. I pray in tongues, I hear and see in the spirit, I love Jesus and the Trinity.

What was that you were saying about the two not coexisting again?

that is the deception of your narrative of course you would not have chosen it any more than the drunkard or heroin addict. But you did because you found pleasure in the sin as we all did. Now that one has torment because that's what all sin does brings torment and no peace. We blame the addiction that we chosen to do. Start praying and asking God to take away the desire and start separating yourself from those who are bound. You need to meet Jesus and praying in tongues doesn't save you. God is not impressed with our ability to pray in tongues when our perversion is speaking louder. You are bound and need to be set free. And Jesus desires to do it.

 

[CS1]

I'm 47 years old. I'm not new on the block and I have literally tried everything to find peace in my life.

That night I walked into the confessional and repented of being gay ....

Had I been told that God forgives me and he wants to help me move toward a more holy life I wouldn't have turned away. But instead I was told there is no absolution for a person like me. That I must not partake of the of our holiest of sacraments anymore.

So, yes I did make the choice to walk away. What else was in suposed to do when the door of salvation was slammed shut in my face by a human passing judgement on me?

the lie of the addiction.

 

[OneOfHis]

Hey, how come everyone has stopped commenting now that a gay person has come among us?
Where is all the "guidance in love"?

You are showing to be someone who rejects Gods ways for you and seem to be trying to justify a defeated mindset which claims He's powerless while also gives yourself an out to live in perversion that if you were His you ought to be free from.


Someone who cheats on their wife, tries to justify it and claim it is who they are isn't going to be babied. They need to see their error as error, then we can walk forward together. Otherwise it is like they are spitting on Gods grace. Definitely doesn't appear to be a new creature. Not good for fellowship and rejects all reproof.


There's no where to go but plant seeds of truth or leave them to God.

 

[CS1]

Hey, how come everyone has stopped commenting now that a gay person has come among us?
Where is all the "guidance in love"?

LOL, You think one admitting as a badge of honor the addiction is going to make us silent? Please if I had dollars from those who said they were gay to try and silence me from telling them the truth of the sin they are in, you got the wrong person. That tactic works on those who are intimidated and can't take been called names like intolerant, homophobe, and hateful. Nope I love him enough to tell him how Jesus set me free and will set him free too

 

[kaylagrl]

I believe that the way many churches and Christians approach the issue of homosexuality is unbiblical.

Churches market themselves as offering unconditional love.
However, all too often they use a bait and switch tactic whereby they offer unconditional love to tempt people in and yet once 'captured', it is discovered that this love and acceptance is conditional on the newcomer changing in whichever way the church 'elders' dictate they should change.
If the church member doesn't change, they may find that they are not included in ways that they were before.

This is manipulation and spiritual abuse, and is absolutely not the kind of unconditional love offered by Jesus.

Before anybody says that homosexuality is forbidden by the Bible and that I'm "ignoring scripture"...
Prostitution is also forbidden in the Bible, and we all know how Jesus asked people not to throw stones and cast judgement.

You see, Jesus uses love to define scripture, and yet humans use scripture to define love.

Jesus reached out to the marginalised, and yet we reach out to condemn.
Perhaps it's in our fallen nature to want to play God?

Lastly, the reason I'm sticking up for homosexuals and using them as an example here is not because I'm gay myself, just as the reason why I'm against racism is not because I am black.

I agree the church needs to reach out to homosexuals, but you cannot compromise the message. Yes, Jesus said the one without sin throw the first stone. But He also said to the sinner "go and sin no more". Jesus asked for change.

 

[kaylagrl]

Agreed. iaiah says man is talking to God and says to God kill the sinner. God says
i will not kill the sinner i will love the sinner until he is good. God says to man
your way is not my way, my way is higher than your way…in other words, God is saying
i will tell you what to do, you dont tell me what to do. by the way, i am not gay
either while at the same time i strongly believe that being gay is not a sin.
we are all born differently no bodiies are xactly alike.

It doesn't matter what you believe, it matters what the Word says, and it says it's wrong.

 

[kaylagrl]

Frequency is defined by the number of occurrences per unit time. For example 3 per minute, whatever it may be.
I mentioned nothing about frequency nor intensity. I made no mention whatsoever about how many churches or Christians are involved in this bahaviour.

So now your true intentions are laid bare: you have no intention to discuss the topic of the thread, but only to moan and whine that the topic is under discussion.
I would like to politely warn you that trolling this thread or attempting to derail it will result in you being reported to moderators and placed on ignore.

@Oncefallen - please be aware of this, thank you

He's not trolling the thread and derailing a thread is done here, often. Reporting it will get you nowhere because everyone here has done it before.

 

[CS1]

Agreed. iaiah says man is talking to God and says to God kill the sinner. God says
i will not kill the sinner i will love the sinner until he is good. God says to man
your way is not my way, my way is higher than your way…in other words, God is saying
i will tell you what to do, you dont tell me what to do. by the way, i am not gay
either while at the same time i strongly believe that being gay is not a sin.
we are all born differently no bodiies are xactly alike.

it is a sin and it is as all sin it will send one to hell who practices them. BUT the Good news is Jesus !!!

 

[CS1]

If this gets me banned from this site, so be it.

I'm one of the people this thread is about. Yep, I'm gay. And here is my 2 cents.

Yes, the Bible condemns us. Old testament and new. We can't escape it. I can't escape it. But to write us off before we die is to cut us off from the grace and salvation Jesus purchased on the cross for EVERYONE.

As a Christian I was cast out by family and shunned by my church. The last time I went to confession any confessed that I was gay (but single at the time - yes I'm Catholic) I was told that I was living in mortal sin and that until I walked away from my sinful life I was separated from the mercy of Christ. I remember attending mass and the pain that I felt was so great. I could feel the separation from Christ deeply in my soul and I was literally a blubbering mess. I left church that night with a feeling of total desolation. Even God had abandoned me and given up on me. Or so I thought.


I lived a life of great sin, cut off the glory of God. I was always unhappy, I couldn't love myself because I reasoned that if God hated me, why should I have any self respect. I just wanted to die and get it over and done with and end up in hell. Might as well bring on the inevitable I guessed.

Eventually I moved to another country because I could not find peace in my own and while I lived riskiky, my plan of dying early wasn't working either. I met a partner and we somehow managed to stick together and at least get some material stability in worldly terms. That was 16 years ago and I just switched off and became comfortably numb. I figured I wasn't quite happy but it wasn't unbearable either, so it was the best compromise I could hope for.

Then a few months ago Jesus Christ himself entered my room. He showed me something so painful it cut me to pieces. He showed me he wanted to be with me. I saw myself in grey tattered robes in front of him and I was felt so unworthy. So unworthy I said 'Lord I cannot be in your presence, how can you come before me when I am so worthless to you' and he just said to me 'My son, are you with me?'

I tried to answer and I couldn't. My lips were bound. Something had me in its grips. I struggled, but I managed to say the first three words I'd said to him in years 'I am here Lord' As those words left my lips, something went screaming, away. It sounded like a possum actually. And I just wept like a baby. Jesus had just re-entered my life.

In the months since, it's been hectic. I'm trying to make sense if what is going on, still cut off from my spiritual home. I'm honestly terrified of rejoining a parish for fear of judgement again. I'm still gay, but God has called me out. I have no idea what he wants from me, but I'm ready to leave my entire life behind and follow him just like the apostles did.

Soooo if you hate gay people or if you think we don't belong in God's plan, consider this very personal testimony.

 

[kaylagrl]

Your answer shows that you have zero understanding of who we are.

I'm gay. It's not self serving and I most definitely would never ever in a thousand years chosen to be like this and scorned by so many. It's just a thing that happens to some people. I asked God to take it away. Many times. And he didn't.

I listened to the judgement of men and ran away. Far away. And then God came looking for me. I pray in tongues, I hear and see in the spirit, I love Jesus and the Trinity.

What was that you were saying about the two not coexisting again?

You know my stance. And I wouldn't want to do anything to turn you away from God. Please keep seeking. I've been there and I've had habits/relationships, where I asked the Lord to take it away from me. But brother I suddenly have realized that I was clinging to that thing like an old blankie. I was saying "Lord take it from me" when I was holding on to it with all my might. Just maybe, Jesus is waiting for us to let it go, to give up that habit or thing that was just think we can't do with out and He will replace it with better things or relationships. But we have to stop clinging and start reaching to Him. I'm not condemning you, I'm not judging you, I have made mistakes and I'm a long way from a perfect Christian. I'm just saying, let it go and let God lead you. If you're wrong, He'll speak to your heart. I prayed for a relationship for an entire year, every single day and God moved that person out of my life. I thought I couldn't do without them, I cried many tears and asked God why. But He had something so much better. <3 Be blessed brother.

 

[Mark47Oz]

I never expected any response other than what most of you have shown.
I'm old enough to not really care what you all think, because only God gets to judge me.

I said everything I did because it's exactly how we feel. And all most of you did was throw judgemental scripture around and pass judgement. You forgot that I'm a human being with a moral compass too. And most of you assumed that I don't want to change. How many of you actually know me? How many of you know my heart?

You all need to take a good hard look at yourselves. Yes the Bible condemns gays. I never ever said it didn't.

However, if someone young was to come to you and ask for help and you start using terms like 'Addict' 'Pervert' 'Satanic temptation' you might just push them over the edge and force them into suicide.

And their death will be on YOUR heads for failing to show them the love of Christ and giving them hope.

Showing love and understanding toward a gay person is not weakness, it's Christ like. They need you to support them, not call them names and bully them into submission.

Unconditional love is not approval of sin. It's help. It's taking someone as they come before you, telling them you believe in them and helping them pick up the pieces and put themselves back together again.

 

[Rosemaryx]

We are ALL born in sin , that is why Jesus said " We must be born again "
...xox...

 

[shittim]

'Flee that which is evil, cling to that which is good"
The unrepentant carefully cherry pick out and support only what serves the reprobate mind.
we all come to Him as we are, but WE DON'T STAY THERE.

 

[Evmur]

They run because they think the devil himself has entered the room.

It's easy to judge us and debate us, but when one of us turns up, and puts a human face / voice to the debate everyone scatters.

Here's the 100% truth. I'm still gay. I spent years begging God to take it away from me. But he didn't. I reached out to the church for help and it's people judged me and cast me out. So I just gave up and my heart hardened against God because his people had cast me out. And even worse, had made me believe judgement had already been passed on me and there was no hope in this life or the next. All because of something I have no control over.

But I actually don't care what people think of me anymore. The light of Christ can shine in me. The Holy Spirit does move in me. I am a child of the light and I do love our Father the Creator very much.

My judgement will come from the Trinity alone.


Jesus came into my room that night to find me and call me out. As for my walk with him, that's my personal journey. This ain't my first rodeo and I'm not new to Christianity.

I know Jesus will lead the way. I've asked him to. In fact that's one of my most common prayers these days 'Jesus, lead the way' that and 'I am here Lord'

And no, I don't hate myself anymore. Shame is the place where Satan lives. It was the self doubt, the belief that I, a gay person could never be worthy of the promise of Christ that kept me from Jesus that the dark one had a field day with. He used the scripture itself to drive a wedge between me and my Saviour, just like he tried to with Jesus in the desert. Except Jesus was a lot smarter than me and saw it for what it was and rebuked him immediately.

But Paul beseeches you not to be deceived ....

 

[Evmur]

Allow me to provide a translation from Christianese to English:



"We don't hate you. We can't hate you; we are taught to love even our enemies"



"But yes, I kind of hate you".



"And here's what you need to do to change".



"Ask Jesus to help you change".



"If you really want to be part of the Church, you will change for us [although we won't say it's for us, we will say it's for God]".

I know you kinda hate me

The change that Christ brings is miraculous, there is no point in coming to Christ unless you are prepared for Him to miraculously change you. In the twinkling of an eye our sins are washed away and we become new creations, old things pass away all things become new.

What is being described on this thread is conviction, the hound of heaven as it is sometimes called.

If you love Christ you obey His commands and so prove to be His disciple.

 

[Evmur]

I never expected any response other than what most of you have shown.
I'm old enough to not really care what you all think, because only God gets to judge me.

I said everything I did because it's exactly how we feel. And all most of you did was throw judgemental scripture around and pass judgement. You forgot that I'm a human being with a moral compass too. And most of you assumed that I don't want to change. How many of you actually know me? How many of you know my heart?

You all need to take a good hard look at yourselves. Yes the Bible condemns gays. I never ever said it didn't.

However, if someone young was to come to you and ask for help and you start using terms like 'Addict' 'Pervert' 'Satanic temptation' you might just push them over the edge and force them into suicide.

And their death will be on YOUR heads for failing to show them the love of Christ and giving them hope.

Showing love and understanding toward a gay person is not weakness, it's Christ like. They need you to support them, not call them names and bully them into submission.

Unconditional love is not approval of sin. It's help. It's taking someone as they come before you, telling them you believe in them and helping them pick up the pieces and put themselves back together again.

We show love and beseech you to come to Christ and get clean and we get the same response as though we had called you by ugly names and threatened you.

What help can I give you? Christ can make you glad hearted in the twink of an eye, but you don't want that. You have to want to change but you don't.

 

[pottersclay]

I never expected any response other than what most of you have shown.
I'm old enough to not really care what you all think, because only God gets to judge me.

I said everything I did because it's exactly how we feel. And all most of you did was throw judgemental scripture around and pass judgement. You forgot that I'm a human being with a moral compass too. And most of you assumed that I don't want to change. How many of you actually know me? How many of you know my heart?

You all need to take a good hard look at yourselves. Yes the Bible condemns gays. I never ever said it didn't.

However, if someone young was to come to you and ask for help and you start using terms like 'Addict' 'Pervert' 'Satanic temptation' you might just push them over the edge and force them into suicide.

And their death will be on YOUR heads for failing to show them the love of Christ and giving them hope.

Showing love and understanding toward a gay person is not weakness, it's Christ like. They need you to support them, not call them names and bully them into submission.

Unconditional love is not approval of sin. It's help. It's taking someone as they come before you, telling them you believe in them and helping them pick up the pieces and put themselves back together again.

I appreciate your honesty. My heart cries out to the Lord on your behalf.
I'm not gay nor ever was, but was trapped into sexual immoral behavior. Suffice it to say I was the one you did not want dating your daughter, or to leave me alone with your wife or girlfriend.
Oh I believed in Christ and the word of God but sin is pleasurable .....only for a season.
When the Lord opened up my eyes to the hurt I was causing I took a step back, the pain I caused, the friends that fell away. The marriages I ruined. I started to hate myself, my self worth was very low .
I asked the Lord take this desire...... this thing that drives me to this behavior.
He began by teaching me how to guard my eyes, then my thoughts, how to have the boldness to flee from situations despite what would be said. My weakness began to manifest his strength.
Christianity is not only spiritual but a discipline.
I began to see clearly those things that were blurred dark and hidden.
Relationships began to be valued and cherished for more than just a one night stand.
My marriage that I put in jeopardy has continued Im happy to say for 38 yrs.
He has restored my self worth and gave me true feelings and dignity.
Perhaps just as I you have found yourself in the pigs pen like the prodigal son aware of your situation.
If not I pray that you do as all of us must do.
The Lord is faithful ...and at a perfect time he shall hear and answer.
Begin to guard yourself against the wilds of the devil. Weigh and measure. Pray and believe that he has heard you.

 

[Unearthed]

He's not trolling the thread and derailing a thread is done here, often. Reporting it will get you nowhere because everyone here has done it before.

So you're telling me that this forum is not properly or fairly moderated?