Ukraine the bad guy?

[Gideon300]

Western nations will paint anybody who challenges them or who does something they don't want them to do as the 'bad guy'.
The reality RE Russia/Ukraine is this: The EU are on a power grab and invited Ukraine to join. Same for NATO.
Russia, perfectly understandably, saw this as a threat.

Ukraine was offered security guarantees by Russia decades ago. These meant nothing to Putin. He is a liar, and a murderer, his soldiers are likewise murderers and thieves. Russia threatened by a non-nuclear power that has older weapons supplied by Russia in the first place? Putin has publicly stated the real reason for his invasion of Ukraine. He wants his empire back. NATO and Europe's error was to let Putin get away with the 2014 annexation of Crimea and parts of Ukraine. Like Hitler's uncontested invasion of Rhineland, it sent the wrong message. The Rhineland incident was the precursor to WW2, if those now supporting Ukraine had a spine, this present miserable war would never have happened.

Tell me what benefit is Ukraine to the EU? Or to NATO for that matter? Ukraine is at best a sop to Putin's ego. He wants the USSR to be reconstituted. How can I say this? Putin has stated this publicly.

 

[Fundaamental]

Very Deep Rabbit Hole.

certainly is resto.

But you know it's also a rabbit hole of a world wide economical instability that has gone for a hundred years.

It looks like a one world order to me.

The real truth being all the leaders of the world rule by creating a false economy,

 

[Fundaamental]

Ukraine was offered security guarantees by Russia decades ago. These meant nothing to Putin. He is a liar, and a murderer, his soldiers are likewise murderers and thieves. Russia threatened by a non-nuclear power that has older weapons supplied by Russia in the first place? Putin has publicly stated the real reason for his invasion of Ukraine. He wants his empire back. NATO and Europe's error was to let Putin get away with the 2014 annexation of Crimea and parts of Ukraine. Like Hitler's uncontested invasion of Rhineland, it sent the wrong message. The Rhineland incident was the precursor to WW2, if those now supporting Ukraine had a spine, this present miserable war would never have happened.

Tell me what benefit is Ukraine to the EU? Or to NATO for that matter? Ukraine is at best a sop to Putin's ego. He wants the USSR to be reconstituted. How can I say this? Putin has stated this publicly.

you wouldn't be able to call Putin a liar and a murderer if you lived iñ Russia, añd neither could his soldiers.

For thé last 70 years all wars in these regions have really been about oil & gas, from both Russia & USA

Both Russia and the USA have indirectly and directly provided the ammo.

To every war surrounding there borders for 70 years.

But really has it between about the oil or a bigger picture.

 

[Fundaamental]

ummm the 70 year cold war with russia has been about freeing all the slaves of Russia

Watch for your selfs

 

[cv5]

That Happened in the later part of the 20th Century. Putin wasnt there. He was a Middle level Admin KGB Agent with big dreams( hes delusional). Have you ever Read any Intelligence Profilers Reports on him. They are Public. He Tortures people to death. Pure Evil. Dosent live in reality. He is very Isolated in his circle. There is no Negotiating with him. He got Overly Greedy. Now he is being Punished. The International Players baited him. He was stupid. Now he has to pay. Simple. These Players Eat their own, they have for thousands of years. This will not end well. Satan will probably throw him under the bus.

I appreciate your sentiments and agree to a certain extent.

But may I suggest that your real problems lie much closer to home. Such as toothless DOJ and FBI who for all intents and purposes are aiding and abetting massive internal criminal schemes from political persecution to election fraud to political elite/hollyweird pedophilia rings and human trafficking and much MUCH worse. I could post evidence but it is far too disturbing.

 

[ZNP]

I dont think so Bro. Lets look at Russian Battlefield and Tactics. They armed and Train Sadam's Forces. The 4th Largest Army on the Planet was rolled up in under 111 hours. US air Power kept them at bay for 6 months, till US Ground forces could travel half way around the world to Smoke them. Not very Impressive. Putin really is using everything he has in that area. He is pulling Old Rusty Tanks from storage. The other countries Mentioned are not very Militarily Capable. No Idiot would even think of a Missile Strike against the US. As soon as a Foreign missile is Readied for launch. Satellites would be targeting it. If it launched it would be shot down and US Subs would have already launched. There is no Presidential order or Nuke Football anymore. Our systems are all tied together by AI Programs. A missile attack against the US would be Suicide and the Whole World knows it. Besides This is about Money and no one bites the Hand that makes them Rich(The USA).

We cannot stop the poseidon torpedos, nor can we stop the suitcase nukes in the US, nor are we equipped to deal with the chaos that will come from a nationwide blackout, nor can we stop scalar wave.

Pride goes before destruction. The US is no longer under God's protection, and they have heaped up to themselves enemies who desire to destroy her.

When I read this thread it reminds me of the endless wrangling in the book of Job. If God allows Job, or in this case the US, to be brought low it will happen.

 

[cv5]

Now that is some high-end maskirovka......

https://twitter.com/x/status/1673982714880425989

 

[cv5]

Looks like a pretty accurate analysis..........

Missile strike in Kramatorsk summarized:
Russian MoD reported today: “In the city of Kramatorsk of the Donetsk People's Republic, the point of temporary deployment of the commanders of the 56th motorized infantry brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine was hit.”

https://twitter.com/x/status/1674023498904215555

- Volunteers around the restaurant confirm that soldiers are under the rubble (video)
- Videos from the rescue and instagram posts confirm that (former?) Canadian and US soldiers were on site. (Next Post)
- The SBU arrested a “Russian spy” who have gave out the position for the strike in Kramatorsk. Now you don’t do that, if Russia randomly attacks civilians! You do that only if something important was hit. (Thread next post)
- Kramatorsk TG Channel says that Russians attacked a village with an Iskander missile and killed civilians. They show a lot of destroyed buildings, that are obviously rubble for month. (Video + screenshot)
- But at the end they show a crater in the middle of the road, which is being repaired. This crater fits the size of an S-300 missile. Such missiles Ukraine uses as AD in this region. (Patriots around Kiev)
- When an AD missile like S300 explodes a bunch of shrapnel fly around, that is by design to damage everything around it and injures people.
- Now Zelensky just said that Russia used an S300 missile to attack civilians. Directly contradicting the Kramatorsk TG report. (Screenshot)

-> So if we puzzle this together, we can see what happened:
1) Russia launched a missile attack on a Hotel where NATO instructors and Ukrainian soldiers where living. (Hotels that close to the front, don’t have other clients, really.)
2) Russia hit directly during an army Pizza party. As instagram posts of western volunteers show.
3) Ukraine tried to shoot down the incoming Russian missile with a S300 SAM. This failed and it hit the village injuring civilians.

 

[cv5]

There you go.....

https://twitter.com/x/status/1673795752600952836

 

[Fundaamental]

We cannot stop the poseidon torpedos, nor can we stop the suitcase nukes in the US, nor are we equipped to deal with the chaos that will come from a nationwide blackout, nor can we stop scalar wave.

Pride goes before destruction. The US is no longer under God's protection, and they have heaped up to themselves enemies who desire to destroy her.

When I read this thread it reminds me of the endless wrangling in the book of Job. If God allows Job, or in this case the US, to be brought low it will happen.

I think suitcase nukes would be a lot less than 10 tones.

Anything to big would be detected at any border control,

For suitcase nukes to be successful I couldn't possibly imagine how many they would need, or how many places would have to build them on home soil.

Me think it's all a bluff

Same for torpedo nukes would they be bigger than 10 tonnes

 

[Fundaamental]

There you go.....

https://twitter.com/x/status/1673795752600952836

just one question here , shouldn't he know publicly declaring, he maybe be getting fighter jets from the USA

Will escalate the war further ?.

Does Russia have to know the fighter jets are from the USA or any other country ?

 

[ZNP]

I think suitcase nukes would be a lot less than 10 tones.

Anything to big would be detected at any border control,

For suitcase nukes to be successful I couldn't possibly imagine how many they would need, or how many places would have to build them on home soil.

Me think it's all a bluff

Same for torpedo nukes would they be bigger than 10 tonnes

The suitcase nukes are already here, we had a top level Russian defector tell us this twenty years ago. They will take out the entire power grid in these cities and they will take out a few city blocks and they will cause terror, panic and confusion. Communications go down and if they are coordinated hitting NYC, Washington DC, Atlanta, LA, etc all at the same time no one would know what is going on. The way the power grid works you take out ten of these major transformers around the US and the entire grid nationwide goes down. At that point, in the confusion, all those people who are already in the country could cause havoc, cutting power lines, causing damage to transformers, and critical infrastructure so that when they try to bring it back up you continue to discover problems crashing the system.

The torpedo nukes cause giant radioactive tsunamis that would cause massive destruction to our coastlines as much as 5 miles inland in places. That is where 65% of the US population lives.

All of this could hit at the same instant.

Yes the military has back up generators and yes, not all our military bases are near the coastline, but every person in the country would be greatly affected and how much diesel do they have stored up at the military bases for those generators? Without power you would soon have a crippling shortage of diesel and without that how do you maintain order in cities across the country that are blacked out. Looting and gang violence would be everywhere.

 

[Fundaamental]

It just occurred to me but couldn't zalenski say we have managed to build a load of fighter jets ?

Does he really have to say I'm getting some from the USA or NATO or the UK ?

 

[ZNP]

It just occurred to me but couldn't zalenski say we have managed to build a load of fighter jets ?

Does he really have to say I'm getting some from the USA or NATO or the UK ?

Yeah, they could claim they had some graduate students working on it for the last few years and the reason they look like American jets is they were using pictures of those planes, after all how hard could it be to make one of these advanced fighter jets with smart bombs?

"It's not that hard"

 

[Fundaamental]

And on that note couldn't he have had those fighter jets allready ?

 

[Fundaamental]

The suitcase nukes are already here, we had a top level Russian defector tell us this twenty years ago. They will take out the entire power grid in these cities and they will take out a few city blocks and they will cause terror, panic and confusion. Communications go down and if they are coordinated hitting NYC, Washington DC, Atlanta, LA, etc all at the same time no one would know what is going on. The way the power grid works you take out ten of these major transformers around the US and the entire grid nationwide goes down. At that point, in the confusion, all those people who are already in the country could cause havoc, cutting power lines, causing damage to transformers, and critical infrastructure so that when they try to bring it back up you continue to discover problems crashing the system.

The torpedo nukes cause giant radioactive tsunamis that would cause massive destruction to our coastlines as much as 5 miles inland in places. That is where 65% of the US population lives.

All of this could hit at the same instant.

Yes the military has back up generators and yes, not all our military bases are near the coastline, but every person in the country would be greatly affected and how much diesel do they have stored up at the military bases for those generators? Without power you would soon have a crippling shortage of diesel and without that how do you maintain order in cities across the country that are blacked out. Looting and gang violence would be everywhere.

yeah the deflector russian who was not a propagandist could there be such a person ?

 

[Fundaamental]

Apparently NATO have been training Ukraine since 2014

How come they haven't trained them to build fighter jets in all that time ?

 

[Fundaamental]

Let me guess land missiles cause more economical instability and sell at a much higher rate

 

[cv5]

It just occurred to me but couldn't zalenski say we have managed to build a load of fighter jets ?

Does he really have to say I'm getting some from the USA or NATO or the UK ?

Ukrainian wartime mfg capacity has been practically destroyed. All of their arms and armaments are imported from the West.

This whole escapade has been a losing proposition.....for one side far more than the other.
IMO.....war fatigue will be the deciding factor that will get peace talks underway in the next couple of months.

 

[cv5]

And on that note couldn't he have had those fighter jets allready ?

They need warm bodies to fly them first. Supposedly there are Ukrainian pilots in training overseas right now.

The problem is.......they would not last more than a couple of engagements. Russian air defenses would sweep these antiquated jalopies out of the sky and they know it. This F-16 feint is just another hopeless boondoggle and more impotent posturing.

The tragic fact is that Ukraine has already lost this war. The West keeps trying emergency resuscitation but the patient is pretty much down for the count I'm afraid.