Thanks I have been to church but have never been a member. Its nice to know where your money is going.
Tithing...
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Thanks I have been to church but have never been a member. Its nice to know where your money is going.
Don't know about others, but not only do we give a breakdown of how money is spent, we (church members) determine what it is spent on.
...and if you do tithe, do it properly: Levitical, festival, and Poor tithe.
That's 3 types of tithes, not one.
This guy summarizes things pretty good in 2 minutes.
[video=youtube;Qtxd81ZZ2Iw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qtxd81ZZ2Iw[/video]
In the N.T. Gospels, references to tithing are pre-Calvary and are referring to the O.T. system.
****I encourage people to tithe for a few reasons (especially if they are struggling financially) and the system your talking about is under the law---tithes were paid by Abraham and Jacob before the law---if you think about how Jesus taught moral responsibility it would seem normal to expect at least 10% seeing money represents our lives and under Grace we are giving God our lives---10% would be a beginning place----Jesus always boosted the requirements---don't kill----to don't hate----------don't commit adultery ---to lust in the heart------ect. Jesus placed a higher standard on people not to bind them but to free them---and that is what tithing does---now if your encouraging people not to tithe because you assume they will all love Christ to the extent they give more than 10% I understand---but I believe people teaching the Church not to tithe and to give freely are causing many people to give very little---right now I am concerned about those who are struggling financially and I believe they can come out of financial bondage as a starting point by tithing---after 40 years of living and giving and seeing others not give and struggle and give and be blessed ect. ,I believe it to be the real deal---so if your stressing living under the law and tithing like you suggested---no I am not telling people that...
tithes were paid by Abraham...before the law The proper application of this text would be to tell military personnel to give a tenth of all their spoils to a priest(or spiritual leader) and to leave the rest behind. Abram's tithe was on war spoils, not occupational work. Show me a Scripture reference where Abram paid a tithe on his occupation/job/profession.
Tithing advocates like to cherry-pick this text of Scripture to point out that a tenth of spoils was given to a priest but fail to mention that nothing was kept by Abram. This text, in context and in it's totality, illustrates Abram keeping NOTHING, not just the giving of a tenth.
tithes were paid by...Jacob before the law I'm having a hard time finding evidence that Jacob actually paid a tithe.
Then Jacob made a vow, saying, "If God will be with me and will keep me on this journey that I take, and will give me food to eat and garments to wear, and I return to my father's house in safety, then the LORD will be my God. "This stone, which I have set up as a pillar, will be God's house, and of all that You give me I will surely give a tenth to You." -Gen 28:20-22
He made a vow though he didn't seem convinced of God's diety, essentially saying "if this 'god' blesses me, I will give a tenth".
If Jacob did actually give a tithe, who would he have given it to? What spiritual leader would this have been? Under the O.T. tithing system, Isrealites that had crops and livestock gave one of their tithes to the Levites because they(Levites) served the priest. A tenth of that tithe went to the priest. Jacob did come to faith and later built an alter(Gen 35:7) and was therefore a priest himself.
if you think about how Jesus taught moral responsibility it would seem normal to expect at least 10% seeing money represents our lives and under Grace we are giving God our lives---10% would be a beginning place----Jesus always boosted the requirements---don't kill----to don't hate----------don't commit adultery ---to lust in the heart------ect. Jesus placed a higher standard on people not to bind them but to free them---and that is what tithing does Jesus told the Pharisees and teachers of the law how their different pre-Calvary tithes(that were required) were less important than justice, mercy, and faithfulness:
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. -Matt 23:23
now if your encouraging people not to tithe because you assume they will all love Christ to the extent they give more than 10% I understand I encourage people to do what the N.T. teaches.
Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. -2 Cor 9:7
If God has spoken to you and convinced you that you are to give 10%, that's fine. However, there is no rule that everyone else is also obligated to 10% or more. Those well off may well be prompted by God to give far more than 10%. Those who are struggling may not be impressed by God to give much financially, and perhaps nothing.
but I believe people teaching the Church not to tithe and to give freely are causing many people to give very little---right now I am concerned about those who are struggling financially and I believe they can come out of financial bondage as a starting point by tithing The church hasn't taught the tithing myth throughout most of it's history. Rightly so. It should first encourage people to have an intimate relationship with God. The church should then encourage people to seek God's counsel in deciding how much they will give to further the kingdom.
People should give what they feel compelled by God to give. There is no minimum and there is no maximum.
after 40 years of living and giving and seeing others not give and struggle and give and be blessed ect. ,I believe it to be the real deal---so if your stressing living under the law and tithing like you suggested---no I am not telling people that... You realize there are plenty of us who have seen people tithe for decades and get nowhere? Also, we see plenty who don't tithe who are doing very well just the same.
****the only place in the Bible where we can test God is in giving---I have not heard the negative testimonies of people struggling and then tithed and God did not bless and help them...
the only place in the Bible where we can test God is in giving Post-Calvary Scripture reference specifically stating a tithe?
I put the question that way because the typical pro-tither uses Mal 3:10, which is part of the O.T. 3 tithe system, which you and I agree are no longer in affect.
**** God is the original giver ( John 3:16)----- so I consider giving part of God's Nature---- those in need of financial breakthrough I encourage to start tithing---it only makes sense that if people gave under the law and before the law at least 10% Christians should start there--- those who can't tithe 10% right now start where you can and build up to 10% and offerings too when possible---- it is a blessed life ---- I'm seeking for people to be blessed to be a blessing...
it only makes sense that if people gave under the law and before the law at least 10% Christians should start there They didn't always give at least 10%. When the law was in affect, tithes came solely from those who grew crops and raised livestock. But, the fields were to be idle every 7th year(as well as the Year of Jubilee). Can't tithe on crops that aren't being grown. In addition, one of the 3 types of tithes was called the Poor tithe...which was for the poor(who gave offerings, not tithes).
The church has not always taught this myth of tithing.
Not all believers throughout church history have been responsible/obligated to tithe.
Texts used to teach tithing are taken out of context(e.g. - war spoils) and/or are pre-Calvary or are from a time when 3 tithes were being given on crops/livestock.
There is no minimum for giving. There is no maximum.
I'd like people to be blessed as well. Seeing how mandated tithing isn't the answer, I'd recommend people to grow/develop their relationship with God and then consider 2 Cor 9:7.
Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. -2 Cor 9:7
Some might say the following are just for Israel (Jews) but I was under the impression that scripture was given for all of our benefits and for someone to say tithing is not a Biblical teaching? Well I'll let the reader decide...
Breaking Covenant by Withholding Tithes
Malachi 3: 6“I the Lord do not change. So you, the descendants of Jacob, are not destroyed. 7Ever since the time of your ancestors you have turned away from my decrees and have not kept them. Return to me, and I will return to you,” says the Lord Almighty.
“But you ask, ‘How are we to return?’
8“Will a mere mortal rob God? Yet you rob me.
“But you ask, ‘How are we robbing you?’
“In tithes and offerings.
9You are under a curse—your whole nation—because you are robbing me.
10Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this,” says the Lord Almighty, “and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that there will not be room enough to store it.
11I will prevent pests from devouring your crops, and the vines in your fields will not drop their fruit before it is ripe,” says the Lord Almighty.
12“Then all the nations will call you blessed, for yours will be a delightful land,” says the Lord Almighty.
Humans have a tendency to be greedy and selfish it doesn't hurt anyone to learn to give or tithe. In the Malachi verses above God says Test me in this and then says when we give He will bless us.
Has anyone tried to out give God? Can't be done. Yet so many rush to say we don't have to give not commanded to give and not a Biblical teaching? I don't think so.
God asks us to Test Him in this area of giving. Besides it's better to give than receive. The widow with two mites puts us all to shame. When was the last time we gave God all we had? Myself included.....
It's not a bad thing to tithe...helps teach us not to be so greedy and selfish.
Has anyone tried to out give God? Can't be done. Yet so many rush to say we don't have to give not commanded to give and not a Biblical teaching? I don't think so.
God asks us to Test Him in this area of giving. Besides it's better to give than receive. The widow with two mites puts us all to shame. When was the last time we gave God all we had? Myself included.....
It's not a bad thing to tithe...helps teach us not to be so greedy and selfish.
There are a lot of scriptures in the OT about it... but all of that was fulfilled and changed when Jesus established his kingdom here.
All of the scriptures about the requirement to tithe are OT... NT, new covenant, is different. We don't live under the law. At least, believers in Christ, and his atoning sacrifice do not live under the law.
However, you are free to do whatever you wish. If you wish to remain under the law, that is your choice. I choose Jesus.