Tithing...

[KohenMatt]

First off, I'd like to point out that your Scripture from Leviticus 27 is a different kind of tithe than a standard one. Leviticus is talking about special vows and gifts. Leviticus 27 is discussing vows up to the last part, where it then goes into the topic of tithes. What you are referring to as a "non standard" tithe was one of three mandatory(for those in the agricultural and livestock occupations) tithes, known as the Levitical tithe. Notice the text doesn't suggest it was optional tithe for those who were in the livestock/agricultural professions.

Well, I disagree with your interpretation of what Leviticus 27 saying. The entire chapter is talking about the special vows and offerings, as is indicated by the closing verses talking about redeeming the specific tither. So again, I disagree with you.

We give 10% of my gross paycheck right off the bat. But in addition to that, there are various other offerings, especially from the agriculture on our property (figs, eggs, veggies, etc.) So back to my original question, then, of why one type of tithe but not the others?

I don't know what you're asking here.

And the "best" of money isn't always a quality thing. For those with an agricultural tithe, it does mean as perfect an offering (animal, grain, etc.) as possible. Offerings and tithes are two different subjects. What Biblical teaching on tithing mandates the "perfect" of your crop/livestock?

But when it comes to money, it has nothing to do with quality, rather the first. Based on what Biblical teaching?

The perfection standard for offerings comes from the criteria in Leviticus 1-6. In regards to tithes, I'm not aware of a specific Scripture that says the standard tithe has to be a perfect animal, or maybe even a first. Perhaps there is one that I'm not aware of right off the bat. So I guess that it is my own personal standard.

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

I just make it a simple 10% on everything--- if someone gives me a cow---I figure the value and pay 10%-----over 40- years I have tried both----tithing and not tithing-----just want people to be blessed----in these last days we need to fund the spread of the Gospel---the Church I was visiting last year had people tithing 51% and some up to 90% voluntarily--they asked him how can you live on 10%---he said he had no trouble living on a million a year ...

I just make it a simple 10% on everything--- if someone gives me a cow---I figure the value and pay 10%-----over 40- years I have tried both----tithing and not tithing-----just want people to be blessed Which one of the O.T. tithes are you paying, and why not the other ones?

the Church I was visiting last year had people tithing 51% and some up to 90% voluntarily A person can not give a tithe that is 51%. A tithe is 10%. 2 tithes are 20%. 3 tithes are 30%. A tithe is a definitive amount(weight) or quantity(e.g. - bodies) equal to 10%.

If I have $10 and give .50¢, I'm not giving a tithe. I'd be giving 1/2 a tithe.
If I have $10 and give $4, I'm not giving a tithe. I'm giving 4 tithes.
If I have $10 and give $1, I'm giving a tithe.

the Church I was visiting last year had people tithing 51% and some up to 90% voluntarily There are those who can give(grace offerings) a large percentage of their income, and I think that's wonderful, so long as they are doing it because they want to and feel prompted to do so.

Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. -2Cor 9:7

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

Is it a sin when you do not have to tithe on? Example, one has no property or agri- produce and what he has is earning money or a paycheck from his job. Do one need to convert them to animals, livestock or vegetables for him to exercise the 3 tithes?

Thank you.

Might have to reword your question.

In my case, I'm not sure what you're asking.

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

Test_F_i_2_Luv: First off, I'd like to point out that your Scripture from Leviticus 27 is a different kind of tithe than a standard one. Leviticus is talking about special vows and gifts. Leviticus 27 is discussing vows up to the last part, where it then goes into the topic of tithes. What you are referring to as a "non standard" tithe was one of three mandatory(for those in the agricultural and livestock occupations) tithes, known as the Levitical tithe. Notice the text doesn't suggest it was optional tithe for those who were in the livestock/agricultural professions.

KohenMatt: Well, I disagree with your interpretation of what Leviticus 27 saying. The entire chapter is talking about the special vows and offerings, as is indicated by the closing verses talking about redeeming the specific tither. So again, I disagree with you.

Test_F_i_2_Luv: Lev 27 uses the words dedicate/dedication/vow/vows throughout the chapter until v30, where the word tithe/tenth is then used.

Before Lev 27:30, the vows/dedications are at will. At Lev 27:30, the payments are mandatory.

On Lev 27:30, one of my study Bibles actually as a footnote relating the verse to other O.T. Scriptures discussing the topic of tithing. In addition, the text note also reveals something I rarely hear from the pulpit: 3 types of tithes were required on livestock/crops in O.T. times.


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Test_F_i_2_Luv: We give 10% of my gross paycheck right off the bat. But in addition to that, there are various other offerings, especially from the agriculture on our property (figs, eggs, veggies, etc.) So back to my original question, then, of why one type of tithe but not the others?

KohenMatt: I don't know what you're asking here.

It appears to me you are making an effort to follow O.T. rules on tithing. Am I on track? There are types of tithes in O.T. law.


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Test_F_i_2_Luv: And the "best" of money isn't always a quality thing. For those with an agricultural tithe, it does mean as perfect an offering (animal, grain, etc.) as possible. Offerings and tithes are two different subjects. What Biblical teaching on tithing mandates the "perfect" of your crop/livestock?

KohenMatt: The perfection standard for offerings comes from the criteria in Leviticus 1-6. In regards to tithes, I'm not aware of a specific Scripture that says the standard tithe has to be a perfect animal, or maybe even a first. Perhaps there is one that I'm not aware of right off the bat. So I guess that it is my own personal standard.

Test_F_i_2_Luv: Numbers 18:26&29 refers to giving the best of a tithe. The Levites, who received the Levitical tithe from the Israelites(only those who had the occupation of agriculture or livestock), took a tithe of the tithe to present to the Lord. The tithe of a tithe they offered to the Lord was to be the best of the tithes from the Israelites.

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

Test_F_i_2_Luv: We give 10% of my gross paycheck right off the bat. But in addition to that, there are various other offerings, especially from the agriculture on our property (figs, eggs, veggies, etc.) So back to my original question, then, of why one type of tithe but not the others?

KohenMatt: I don't know what you're asking here.

Test_F_i_2_Luv: Am I correct to assume that you're trying to follow rules on tithing as spelled out in the O.T.?


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Test_F_i_2_Luv: And the "best" of money isn't always a quality thing. For those with an agricultural tithe, it does mean as perfect an offering (animal, grain, etc.) as possible. Offerings and tithes are two different subjects. What Biblical teaching on tithing mandates the "perfect" of your crop/livestock?

But when it comes to money, it has nothing to do with quality, rather the first. Based on what Biblical teaching?

KohenMatt: The perfection standard for offerings comes from the criteria in Leviticus 1-6. In regards to tithes, I'm not aware of a specific Scripture that says the standard tithe has to be a perfect animal, or maybe even a first. Perhaps there is one that I'm not aware of right off the bat. So I guess that it is my own personal standard.

Test_F_i_2_Luv: I'm not so much interested in offerings as the thread is addressing tithing.

Crop and livestock raising Israelites were responsible to give the Levites the Levitical tithe. The Levitical tithe is in my signature line. Notice the requirements. The Levites were then responsible to give to God a tenth of that tithe. The Levites were to present the best and most holy parts to the Lord. Numbers 18:26-29.

 

[john832]

John, please read Acts 15.

Actually, I have read Acts 15, so let's look at it...

Act 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
Act 15:2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

What question? Circumcision, not all the Law.

Now, are we circumcised today? You betcha. After the manner of Moses? Nope...

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Circumcision is still to be done today, but not of the foreskin, rather the heart...

Deu 10:16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

Deu 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

God's intent has always been circumcision of the heart, the problem is they did not and could not have the heart to obey...

Deu 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

They could not receive the Holy Spirit...

Joh 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Not until Pentecost, AD31.

Anyhoo, back to Acts 15...

Act 15:13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:

(Here is a freebee, James was the head of the New Testament church, not Peter.)

Act 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

OK, so the Gentiles are to only abstain from idols, fornication, things strangled and blood.

So if you think this is what the major point is, then why can the Gentiles have other gods ahead of God?

Take God's holy name in vain?

Break the Sabbath?

Dishonor their parents?

Murder?

Commit adultery?

Steal?

Lie?

Lust (covet)?

The Gentiles are not required to do these?

Jesus said...

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

The issue was circumcision of the flesh or circumcision of the heart.

I would advise you to take your own advice and read the entirety of Acts 15, not just a couple of selected verses and compare Acts 15 with the rest of scripture.

 

[Dino246]

Actually, I have read Acts 15, so let's look at it...

OK, so the Gentiles are to only abstain from idols, fornication, things strangled and blood. So if you think this is what the major point is, then why can the Gentiles have other gods ahead of God? ... The issue was circumcision of the flesh or circumcision of the heart.

I would advise you to take your own advice and read the entirety of Acts 15, not just a couple of selected verses and compare Acts 15 with the rest of scripture.

You've reduced this issue to something which is of your own interpretation, not of the text. While circumcision in the NT is described as being of the heart, not the flesh, the issue about which Paul wrote to the Galatians, and which prompted the Acts 15 summit, was fleshly circumcision; that of the heart is not at issue at all.

The greater point was this: do Gentiles need to become Jews by practice (of which fleshly circumcision was a sign) in order to become Christians? The answer was No. This doesn't excuse Gentiles from being holy, but that holiness is not according to the Law. Rather, it exceeds the Law... and is only achievable by the blood of Christ and the indwelling Spirit.

Therefore, it remains that Christians are not subject to the OT laws regarding tithing. Tithing is not a matter of holiness, nor even of cultural sensitivity, but only of supporting the Levitical system, which no longer exists. Giving according to NT principles supports the work of the Church. Tithing is bondage; in Christ we are free.

 

[88]

You've reduced this issue to something which is of your own interpretation, not of the text. While circumcision in the NT is described as being of the heart, not the flesh, the issue about which Paul wrote to the Galatians, and which prompted the Acts 15 summit, was fleshly circumcision; that of the heart is not at issue at all.

The greater point was this: do Gentiles need to become Jews by practice (of which fleshly circumcision was a sign) in order to become Christians? The answer was No. This doesn't excuse Gentiles from being holy, but that holiness is not according to the Law. Rather, it exceeds the Law... and is only achievable by the blood of Christ and the indwelling Spirit.

Therefore, it remains that Christians are not subject to the OT laws regarding tithing. Tithing is not a matter of holiness, nor even of cultural sensitivity, but only of supporting the Levitical system, which no longer exists. Giving according to NT principles supports the work of the Church. Tithing is bondage; in Christ we are free.

*****The Old Testament saints gave 10%----under the law----we are under a much better Covenant----giving 10% if really too low---if we aren't giving 10% minimal---kinda a shame---we are after the Order of Melchisedec (Hebrews 7)----Christ our high priest---received tithes through Melchisedec...

 

[Dino246]

*****The Old Testament saints gave 10%----under the law----we are under a much better Covenant----giving 10% if really too low---if we aren't giving 10% minimal---kinda a shame---we are after the Order of Melchisedec (Hebrews 7)----Christ our high priest---received tithes through Melchisedec...

I've read this line of argument many times. It's invalid. The point of Hebrews 7 was not that Christ still receives tithes (which is an inference only), but that His priesthood is greater than that of Levi.

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

*****The Old Testament saints gave 10%----under the law----

WRONG WRONG WRONG

we are under a much better Covenant----giving 10% if really too low---if we aren't giving 10% minimal---kinda a shame---we are after the Order of Melchisedec (Hebrews 7)----Christ our high priest---received tithes through Melchisedec...

If you have a good Bible dictionary you will find that there were THREE tithes required, not one.

Levitical tithe, Poor Tithe, and Festival tithe.

Have an NIV Bible with text notes? Look at Leviticus 27:30.

Still don't believe me or don't use the NIV? Google the 3 types of tithes mentioned above.

You're starting point, if you so choose to use the O.T. system of tithing, is 3 tithes.

 

[john832]

You've reduced this issue to something which is of your own interpretation, not of the text. While circumcision in the NT is described as being of the heart, not the flesh, the issue about which Paul wrote to the Galatians, and which prompted the Acts 15 summit, was fleshly circumcision; that of the heart is not at issue at all.

The greater point was this: do Gentiles need to become Jews by practice (of which fleshly circumcision was a sign) in order to become Christians? The answer was No. This doesn't excuse Gentiles from being holy, but that holiness is not according to the Law. Rather, it exceeds the Law... and is only achievable by the blood of Christ and the indwelling Spirit.

Therefore, it remains that Christians are not subject to the OT laws regarding tithing. Tithing is not a matter of holiness, nor even of cultural sensitivity, but only of supporting the Levitical system, which no longer exists. Giving according to NT principles supports the work of the Church. Tithing is bondage; in Christ we are free.

I noticed that you did not refer to scripture but rather your own reasonings. How about some real exegesis here?

 

[88]

I've read this line of argument many times. It's invalid. The point of Hebrews 7 was not that Christ still receives tithes (which is an inference only), but that His priesthood is greater than that of Levi.

****I haven't studied Hebrews 7 much---but an inference plus the fact that "giving" is in the nature of God has me convinced that 10% is where we should start----I've tried both---tithing and not tithing for over 40 years---the Lord only tells us to prove Him in regard to money (Malachi 3:10)...

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

If you have a good Bible dictionary you will find that there were THREE tithes required, not one.

Levitical tithe, Poor Tithe, and Festival tithe.

Have an NIV Bible with text notes? Look at Leviticus 27:30.

Still don't believe me or don't use the NIV? Google the 3 types of tithes mentioned above.

You're starting point, if you so choose to use the O.T. system of tithing, is 3 tithes.

That was supposed to be "your".

 

[john832]

The perfection standard for offerings comes from the criteria in Leviticus 1-6. In regards to tithes, I'm not aware of a specific Scripture that says the standard tithe has to be a perfect animal, or maybe even a first. Perhaps there is one that I'm not aware of right off the bat. So I guess that it is my own personal standard.

You are correct here...

Lev 27:32 And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.
Lev 27:33 He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and the change thereof shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed.

 

[Dino246]

I noticed that you did not refer to scripture but rather your own reasonings. How about some real exegesis here?

Galatians 2:14 "But when I saw that they were not [SUP][a][/SUP]straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in the presence of all, “If you, being a Jew, live like the Gentiles and not like the Jews, how is it that you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?"

This verse clearly supports my "reasoning" as you call it.

 

[88]

****I haven't studied Hebrews 7 much---but an inference plus the fact that "giving" is in the nature of God has me convinced that 10% is where we should start----I've tried both---tithing and not tithing for over 40 years---the Lord only tells us to prove Him in regard to money (Malachi 3:10)...

****I think alot of people out there don't believe in tithing---because they want to give more than 10%-----in that case I think this is probably more along the lines of New Testament thinking----I think some people were baptized in water holding their wallets above the water---so it would not die also...

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

****I think alot of people out there don't believe in tithing---because they want to give more than 10%-----in that case I think this is probably more along the lines of New Testament thinking----I think some people were baptized in water holding their wallets above the water---so it would not die also...

I think alot of people out there don't believe in tithing---because they want to give more than 10% I am one of those opponents of tithing & an advocate of grace giving. The N.T. standard is summarized well in a single verse.

Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. -2 Cor 9:7

Most of those who claim they are tithing by Biblical standards will point to Mal 3:10.

Mal 3:10 is part of the O.T., though, which had multiple types of required tithes. It wasn't 10%.

If one consults a good Bible dictionary, researches the topic on the internet, or even looks at footnotes in some Bibles(e.g. - Lev 27:30 in the NIV Study Bible), it is plain to see that there were multiple types of tithes paid by Israelites in O.T. times.

I don't know how this gibberish about 10% came to be, but nearly every time I mention Levitical tithe, Festival tithe, and Poor tithe, my response is...

[video=youtube;Tqy4cAQVzLU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tqy4cAQVzLU[/video]

 

[88]

Want you to get victory----If your having financial problems---please tithe---and give offerings if possible---you say, but I can't afford to give---what your doing is not working?-----I've been jammed up financially---got committed to giving in faith---it works....I get bummed out when people preach against tithing----I know this will hurt people---God does not need our money---we need God in our finances... Grace and Peace...

***If your struggling financially ---tithe---it is part of getting out of debt...

 

[chickenkiller]

Do most churches give its members a break down of how the donated money is spent? Thanks

 

[Dino246]

Do most churches give its members a break down of how the donated money is spent? Thanks

Every church that I have attended did/does so. I suspect it is required under financial accountability laws and regulations.