Tithe!

[Chuckt]

1 Corinthians 9:13-14, when read in context, is speaking of support for the Apostles, not stationary ministers.

1 Corinthians 9:13-14 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
Many pastors like to use this verse as a means to justify extracting financial support from their congregations. The pastors who do this are wrong. This passage is not speaking of stationary pastors of Churches. Rather, it is speaking of Apostles, traveling ministers being provided for.

The problem with that is the verse doesn't say what you are saying.
We are also a priesthood of all believers.

 

[Chuckt]

Substitute for the words tithe/tenth/tithing the words give/giving. 10% is not compulsorily. That doesn't mean God won't lay it on anyone's heart to give 10%, but 10% is not the "beginning" or "starting point" for giving.

The starting point for giving is whatever God lays on one's heart.

Tithing is O.T., Mosaic law. Tithing is pre-calvary.

Giving with a cheerful heart is N.T.

Anyone, then, can enter into the blessings of giving with a cheerful heart. Free will offerings, gifts, sacrificial offerings. Whatever the amount be, whether it's just a small percentage(which is a LOT for someone living a fixed income) or an entire paycheck(for someone who is financially very successful).

A lot of people don't tithe their time.

 

[RobbyEarl]

A lot of people don't tithe their time.

You are right giving time is the same as giving money. I have not seen that before. Because giving money is the same as given time. We are paid for our time. It's the closest thing to Human sacrifice. We are paid for our time.

 

[Chuckt]

So it is so far determined here that one can't enter into the blessings of tithing if not raising cattle or a some other agri crop pleasing to God. Hey Americans.....if you are not a farmer. but a mere factory worker, or housekeeper of hotels, or a "mere" ranch hand for a ranch owner, you can't benefit of God's economy through tithes?
Think again. Satan wants to convince you your little past amounts to nothing. The truth is your part means everything to your position with God concerning your financial future.

Tithing only works for the rich or an agriculture society.
In other words, the an apple tree is going to produce apples and I don't have to do any work except give one out of ten apples.

In a non agriculture society, I'm stuck with having work or not having work. I'm stuck with how much my employer will pay me. I also go years without raises or compensation for my time. When we lose business, they stop paying us.

 

[RobbyEarl]

Tithing only works for the rich or an agriculture society.
In other words, the an apple tree is going to produce apples and I don't have to do any work except give one out of ten apples.

In a non agriculture society, I'm stuck with having work or not having work. I'm stuck with how much my employer will pay me. I also go years without raises or compensation for my time. When we lose business, they stop paying us.

Where is your faith? in the employer or God. You cannot out give God it will not happen.

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

A lot of people don't tithe their time.

144 minutes a day...that'd be 2 hours 24 minutes a day.

We've been transformed by the renewing of our mind. We are slaves to God. We exercise the fruits of the Spirit. That's a 24/7 project, not something to do just when in the public eye at a church/jail/retirement home/hospital/etc.

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

Tithing only works for the rich or an agriculture society.
In other words, the an apple tree is going to produce apples and I don't have to do any work except give one out of ten apples.

In a non agriculture society, I'm stuck with having work or not having work. I'm stuck with how much my employer will pay me. I also go years without raises or compensation for my time. When we lose business, they stop paying us.

Where is your faith? in the employer or God. You cannot out give God it will not happen.

Abram kept none of the war spoils, RobbyEarl. A tenth went to Melchizedek and the rest to the King of Sodom. A widow put two mites - all of her livelihood - in an offering. A ruler was told by Jesus to sell everything he had and give it to the poor and that he would have treasure in heaven.

Do you own anything? Where is your faith? You cannot out give God it will not happen. Should all of us give up all our money, sell all we own(computers included), and follow Jesus?

Try these 3 T/F statements:
5. T/F - In O.T. times, one tithe was due on agriculture and livestock.
7. T/F - In O.T. times, tithing was done on agriculture every year.
8. T/F - In O.T. times, the Israelites were encouraged to tithe on cash/coins/precious metals.

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

The problem with that is the verse doesn't say what you are saying.
We are also a priesthood of all believers.

Context clearly shows Paul was speaking of Apostles.

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

In the Bible, there is no indication or evidence that either Abraham, or the Levites, or Jesus, or the Apostles, tithed their monetary household income to Tabernacle, Temple, Synagogue or Church.

If I am deemed to be a God robber because I do not tithe my monetary income, then they too are all God robbers like myself. LoL

 

[Chuckt]

Where is your faith? in the employer or God. You cannot out give God it will not happen.

I've tithed and I still have been poor, in need of things for my health and I've been broke. I've also been misdiagnosed by a doctor for the last 18 years or more so go preach your faith in poor places like Africa where it won't work.

The New Testament is about giving.

 

[Dino246]

A lot of people don't tithe their time.

Correct. Are you suggesting people should? If you choose to respond, please give scripture references to support your response.

 

[Dino246]

Correct. Are you suggesting people should? If you choose to respond, please give scripture references to support your response.

Sorry, I tried to edit this and timed out. Kindly disregard.

 

[hornetguy]

You cannot out give God it will not happen.

In all seriousness, this makes it sound like some kind of silly contest.

Again.....tithing is OLD LAW. We are no longer under the old law.

Show me in the NT where it is suggested that tithing is the correct way to give back to God....

 

[Yet]

I am still waiting for a tithe heaters to answer to this.

1 Corinthians 9:13-14 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

How does an indeterminate offering equal the manner of supporting ministers at "the altar" "even so" as the ancients who supported God's appointed ministers?

I know the tithe haters can't deal with that, possibly even hating Abraham for tithing. I will thus apply a dose of mercy by explaining that God won't bless this generation's economy like promised to Israel long ago, which rejected God's blessings on those who obey. He will quickly leave you to your own devices. When someone demands from you $1000 for a loaf of brad in a famine, pay up or starve. But the righteous who have obeyed the voice of God's Spirit will have birds bring it to them free. Choose. Are you part of his economy? Is your limit eternal salvation upon death of the body, not caring about tough times to come? Tithers have no worry about famine.

I have answered this on several occasions. Paul starts by saying 'am I not an apostle?' There's your context. Apostle. A traveling preacher. Not an elder in a local body.
The 24 thousand priests took turns at the altar. So each individual did not serve but a short period. A complicated system at best.
Those Levites that remained in the 48 levitical cities tended to the flocks and herds that were tithe animals along with crops.

They would bring a tenth of the total tenth to the acting priests and their helps.

This means that what the temple priest got is not ten percent but a hundredth and it was food only, not cash on the barrel.

But the NT pastors did not even receive or demand or command a hundredth.

As those that received daily sustenance so should the folks help support your local itenerent preacher, not the local elders that care for the sheep without charge, working jobs according to Acts 20.

And no one hates Abraham. Despence with the accusations. I get that your upset. We are using scripture to refute the lie of the tithe. You're bound to get a little hot under the clerical collar. No problem. We'll work through it.

You said something about obeying the voice of God's Spirit. Count me in. But should not God's written word line up with what that voice is saying?
Proberbs 14:12 There is a way that seems right unto a man but the result is destruction..

My people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge....Hosea 4:6

Ok now that I answered your question...

Just one simple question for you. Why are the pastors commanded to work secular jobs in Acts 20?

 

[Yet]

I don't go to one of those churches and I've been in churches that have published a budget and salaries.

Please name the pastor(s) that are paid $10,000 a week in salaries.

I know one church that has 11 pastors or more so it is possible before taxes and with healthcare, they pay over $10,000 a week in salaries but they also have over 12,000 people going to their church so that would make about 1,200 people per pastor and if you want to talk to the head pastor, you have to wait more than six months or more. But they are also very busy because their church is probably open every day of the week with different things going on and when katrina happened, they sent a tractor trailer down to New Orleans full of supplies and they also sent a feeding truck that could feed first responders and the national guard because the truck probably has the ability to feed 1,000 people an hour but don't hold me to the last number. They have a radio ministry, counsellors, and a Christian school on top of that.

I didn't say it. You said they should be paid 'double salaries'. I asked how. Your spinning. This is the no spin zone, don't you know.

You say it is possible to pay 10,000 a week in salaries. But are they? They better be according to your take on 1Tim. 5:17

A lot of wonderful works. 'Lord did we not prophesy in Your name, and cast out demons in Your name, and do mighty miracles in Your name?. And Jesus will answer ' I never knew you. Depart from me you lawless'.

Wonderful works do not save you. Doing His will, keeping His commands will. Saved by grace and kept by obedience.

Any ministry based on lies and any other thing than His word will burn up on judgment day.

Glad you helped the poor but the doctrine you base it on is heavily laden with sand.

 

[Linda70]

Wonderful works do not save you. Doing His will, keeping His commands will. Saved by grace and kept by obedience.

We are saved by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8-9) We are also kept by grace (by the power of God-1 Peter 1:3-5)

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1 Peter 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

The "works" we do are the result of our salvation, but those "works" do not keep us saved. We "work out" that which God has already "worked in" us. (Ephesians 2:10)

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Works that are built what Christ has instilled in us bring rewards (1 Corinthians 3:8-15)

1 Corinthians 3:8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
1 Corinthians 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
1 Corinthians 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1 Corinthians 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1 Corinthians 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

The man made doctrine of monetary tithing is a "work" which is NOT built upon the foundation of Jesus Christ. It will be burned as "hay, wood, and stubble."

"Only one life, 'twill soon be past, Only what's done for Christ will last." (not sure where that quote comes from)

 

[Yet]

We are saved by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8-9) We are also kept by grace (by the power of God-1 Peter 1:3-5)

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1 Peter 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

The "works" we do are the result of our salvation, but those "works" do not keep us saved. We "work out" that which God has already "worked in" us. (Ephesians 2:10)

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Works that are built what Christ has instilled in us bring rewards (1 Corinthians 3:8-15)

1 Corinthians 3:8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
1 Corinthians 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
1 Corinthians 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1 Corinthians 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1 Corinthians 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

The man made doctrine of monetary tithing is a "work" which is NOT built upon the foundation of Jesus Christ. It will be burned as "hay, wood, and stubble."

"Only one life, 'twill soon be past, Only what's done for Christ will last." (not sure where that quote comes from)

Thats exactly what I meant. The works that He works in and through us. We're on the same page.

 

[Yet]

The problem with that is the verse doesn't say what you are saying.
We are also a priesthood of all believers.

If we r the priesthood, do we pay tithes to ourselves?

 

[hornetguy]

Is that your "zen" side manifesting itself? lol

 

[Yet]

Where is your faith? in the employer or God. You cannot out give God it will not happen.

When it comes to money, I out gave God for years. So did many folks I know. How can that be you ask? Because of Gal. 3:10