Thread Alert: The Most Disliked and Avoided Thread Topic

[Musicmaster]

There's a frightening reality in the Christian life these days and throughout history that few dare to admit nor discuss because of the inherent discomforts this topic stirs within the mind and heart of professing believers the world over.

SIN!

"Oh, no! Not ANOTHER thread on the topic of secret, hidden sin! Why won't people just leave this one alone?

I know, I'll just click out of this thread and go to more mild pastures where I can enjoy milk-toast and wet-noodle topics that don't challenge me to to greater heights of righteousness..."

Meanwhile, if one dares attend one of those rare pulpit-pounding sermons against sin, that one may cry over his or her sins, feel deeply moved in a religious service, even build up enough courage to walk up to the front while moved by an emotional song; they even soak the rarely opened Bible with tears and still never actually repent (change of mind).

Most know how to be broken in the moment, but they don't change enough to refrain from the same sins in the hours, days, weeks or months that follow. Most feel real bad inside but say to the Lord that they're so very sorry. We promise God that this time, this time indeed, it will all be different...and yet the pattern of sinful life repeats again and again and again...ad infinitum.

The emotions are always so strong at the realization that they've fallen yet again from those same sins but the chains of bondage remain intact and constraining. The sin returns like a familiar visitor; like an unwelcome guest and yet they open the door wide because, in truth, they've never moved out of the house where all those sins live.

We're so good at becoming fluent in sorrowful shows before the eyes of others and even our own image in the mirror, but we're still a stranger to true, lasting repentance.

Charles Spurgeon once warned that there is a pseudo-repentance that needs to be repented of in so many lives. He wasn't necessarily mocking all the shed tears but rather exposing a shallow kind of sorrow that leaves the heart untouched to the depths of one's being. Sin-scape overflowing through so many lives can fill altars but it doesn't empty strongholds. It can produce convulsive weeping without killing a single sin. This kind of false repentance isn't a minor weakness. It's a deadly self-deception to a life desiring righteousness, but never seeming capable of finding and embracing it.

What are your experiences with this phenomenon? I'm not looking for open confessions here, especially those that would violate the sensibilities of others with crudeness and pollution of the minds of others. It's between you and the Lord, but speaking of this ever so common problem in these bodies of death and sin we occupy, what have you learned about yourself in how to beat down and utterly defeat the sins in your life that were so hard to defeat...IF you have indeed defeated those recurring sins?

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

Romans 7:13-25
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

If only churches would focus on righteousness and actually teach Chritians how to walk in it. I guess it's the toral inability thing that has subverted that.

 

[tourist]

I believe that there are ample threads concerning sin. No one is utterly capable of defeating sin in their lives.

Fortunately, the Holy Spirit will comfort and guide those who sincerely desire positive spiritual change in their lives.

I enjoy threads about coffee and donuts but avoid threads about milk-toast and wet noodles.

You authored a well-written OP though. Hopefully, it will get a few replies.

 

[Blain]

Sin in essence is a poison to the believer but we are still human and fall short however if certain sins are not addressed and repented of truly repented of then they can creep in over and over again.

I always am so hard on myself I cannot imagine other people sin more than I do but this is a type of thinking that had me in a dark place for a long time.
I condemn myself a lot I call myself a fool a lot I feel so unworthy that I dare not see myself in a good light at all it is perhaps the most strong kind of issue I have and all due to how my sins make me feel every flaw in me every time I fall short it is always an attack on myself

I don't think it is repentance it is punishing myself purposely making myself bleed inside for all I have done and for everything wrong with me.
I don't struggle with lust as I have never had sexual desires before I just don't get them maybe that is die to the cancer I had growing up but I have heard plenty of stories and testimonies of people struggling with lust and it seems very addictive and then some struggle with drugs or drinking others struggle with more lesser sins but all of them can be very sneaky and creep in making one hooked to it


Honestly sin in general does this to people but I never want to see it destory anyone or make them like me where they just beat themselves up aboiut it I have yet to be able to get over this to be honest and wouldn't wish it on anyone

 

[ResidentAlien]

what have you learned about yourself in how to beat down and utterly defeat the sins in your life that were so hard to defeat...IF you have indeed defeated those recurring sins?

What have I learned? Only that no one could do it for me other than the Lord. My whole life I looked for advice and for people who would tell me how to overcome. I learned that I was the only only one who could do it, so I got serious about walking with the Lord and letting him teach and lead me. It's the only way; no one can do it for anyone else.

 

[Musicmaster]

I believe that there are ample threads concerning sin. No one is utterly capable of defeating sin in their lives.

Blessedly, the sin in us has already been defeated. That's what was meant by the statement Paul made when he said that if we do that which we would not, it is no longer WE who sins but sin in us...in our members. AMEN. That gives ample reason for another statement made where it says that the one who says he has no sin, he is a liar. We will always have sin in us, but it is not always US who sins, but the sin in us. No matter the origin, the price for it all has been paid to the uttermost in Christ Jesus.

Fortunately, the Holy Spirit will comfort and guide those who sincerely desire positive spiritual change in their lives.

Amen to that.

I enjoy threads about coffee and donuts but avoid threads about milk-toast and wet noodles.

Equally bizarre and wicked are the teachings about loss of salvation in the absence of any biblical scripture presented that clearly shows to us that clearly imaginary line in the sands of their personal beaches over which one can allegedly step, be it on accident or on purpose, whereby one looses his salvation. Works-based salvation is a horrid system of theological philosophy rooted in the vain imaginings of men. Many a debate has been had over this aspect of salvation with not one verse ever presented in those threads that clearly define that imaginary line, even though it's taught and believed as if it were as clear as the death of Christ on the cross.

You authored a well-written OP though. Hopefully, it will get a few replies.

Thanks to the Lord for His clear and precise teachings to us through His inspired men who gave up their lives to preach His word and to write it down for posterity, rebuke, correction, teaching...

Amen

MM

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Blessedly, the sin in us has already been defeated. That's what was meant by the statement Paul made when he said that if we do that which we would not, it is no longer WE who sins but sin in us...in our members. AMEN. That gives ample reason for another statement made where it says that the one who says he has no sin, he is a liar. We will always have sin in us, but it is not always US who sins, but the sin in us. No matter the origin, the price for it all has been paid to the uttermost in Christ Jesus.

This is Christian gnosticism. Christian gnostics create two identities (dualism), one good, one bad, and dissociate in their minds from the bad identity (sin in us) and identify with the good identity (the spiritual man). Then in their minds whenever they sin it is not them sinning, but it is the sin in them sinning. This allows them to absolve themselves from responsibility and guilt because the spiritual man, ie, themselves, didn't sin and can never sin . This is how they view grace.

Sin in us causes us to sin, but we are sinners when we sin and are responsible for what we do.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

If only churches would focus on righteousness and actually teach Chritians how to walk in it. I guess it's the toral inability thing that has subverted that.

People want to be entertained. I attended a church briefly that insisted we needed a big screen TV so the men would come on Superbowl Sunday. I recall a singing group told a story about singing at a church one night years ago where the pastor "wasn't able" to be there . The attendance was down so the head of the group stood up and said " It looks like more people love Lucy than God"! Then they found out why the pastor wasn't there, he was home watching I love Lucy . smh

 

[Musicmaster]

People want to be entertained. I attended a church briefly that insisted we needed a big screen TV so the men would come on Superbowl Sunday. I recall a singing group told a story about singing at a church one night years ago where the pastor "wasn't able" to be there . The attendance was down so the head of the group stood up and said " It looks like more people love Lucy than God"! Then they found out why the pastor wasn't there, he was home watching I love Lucy . smh

So...what's your point, if I may ask?

MM

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

So...what's your point, if I may ask?

MM

I was talking to another poster. Just adding to what he said.

 

[tourist]

I was talking to another poster. Just adding to what he said.

I saw Desi Arnaz once in a bookstore signing copies of his book.

 

[pinebeach]

We will always have sin in us, but it is not always US who sins, but the sin in us

Waaaa? Sorry, that doesn't fly. But yes Jesus has all sin covered if we are a believer who believes.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

I saw Desi Arnaz once in a bookstore signing copies of his book.

Seriously??

 

[Musicmaster]

Waaaa? Sorry, that doesn't fly. But yes Jesus has all sin covered if we are a believer who believes.

Please see post #2 in this thread. Paul is the one who stated that, so if you disagree with that, you're disagreeing with God who inspired Paul to write that down for our benefit. Paul said it twice, in verse 17 and again in verse 20.

MM

 

[TMS]

2Ch 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

If people humble themselves, pray, seek for God's face and turn from their sin. Then God will hear..

Sin seperates us from God.
We need to repent.
Luk 3:3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;
Luk 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Forgiveness is a divine gift graciously offered to everyone on the conditions of repentance, faith in Jesus Christ, and a sincere confession of sin.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

2Ch 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

If people humble themselves, pray, seek for God's face and turn from their sin. Then God will hear..

Sin seperates us from God.
We need to repent.
Luk 3:3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;
Luk 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Forgiveness is a divine gift graciously offered to everyone on the conditions of repentance, faith in Jesus Christ, and a sincere confession of sin.

If you will repent of your earthly sabbath obsession God will show you the true heavenly sabbath

 

[Musicmaster]

2Ch 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

If people humble themselves, pray, seek for God's face and turn from their sin. Then God will hear..

It's interesting to note that replacement theology has Gentiles the world over thinking this verse above applies to them, but as an Israeli who understands the immersion into the Mosaic Law some of the specifics of that verse are deeply rooted, we begin to see the fallacy.

Our forgiveness of sins today under grace are not rooted in works of effort for turning from sin. Our salvation is a matter of God's grace, which is unmerited favor. That should settle the matter, but for some it doesn't.

Ephesians 2:5, 8
5 Even when we were dead in sins [notice the past tense, not present nor future], hath quickened us together with Christ, by grace ye are saved; ...
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Turning from sin is a self effort, which is outside of grace rather than within it.

One doesn't earn the gift of salvation because otherwise it's not a gift. It's given freely as a gift to those who set their faith upon the Lord as commanded through the Gospel of Grace, which points ONLY to the death, burial and resurrection of Christ Jesus on the third day. It's all about Him and what He accomplished for us, not what we can do under the assumption that the sufficiency of His shed Blood was insufficient and therefore in need of our help to complete it in our lives.

Do you see that in the words Paul wrote? How does a fallen human turn from sin? Who has ever accomplished that in this life? You? If so, how? What's the threshold for having successfully turned from sin? What sins are on the one side of that imaginary line, and what sins are on the other side that serves as an alleged trip-wire for remaining in God's presence? Please define that for us with references from scripture. This is an interesting topic that I'm sure is of interest to everyone here.

Sin seperates us from God.

Romans 8:31-39
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. [Not works of effort on our part. Notice that missing in Paul's words here and beyond.]
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. [No conditions were ever laid down for us to than to enjoy this intercession through faith alone.]
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? [Notice that the WHO]
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

So, it's about Christ, not ourselves and our puny efforts of self-will.

Yes, we should indeed fight the battles against the sin in our flesh, but skipping over the specifics all the way to separation from God that these verses say cannot happen, that's a false theology and a gospel that no long applies to us today.

We need to repent.
Luk 3:3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;
Luk 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Forgiveness is a divine gift graciously offered to everyone on the conditions of repentance, faith in Jesus Christ, and a sincere confession of sin.

However, you left out the works of effort in this last part, just as Paul never made mention of works of effort for salvation throughout his epistles.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Repentance, yes, for one must change his mind to receive the faith that comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God as was inspired through Paul to Gentiles the world over.

Ephesians 2:8-13
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: [Why this remains ignored by so many in order to embrace works of effort as a supplement or replacement of grace, that is a truly dangerous place to be.]
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. [What can we possibly add to what is already created within us following our salvation through grace and faith alone?]
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

So, if you would, please explain how anyone can possibly add to the grace given freely as a gift for salvation through faith alone.

Peoples who were under other dispensations did indeed have to do works of effort to show their faith. It was not a gift to them as it is now. Works of effort were the demonstrational requirement for faith upon those to whom the Law had been given. That requirement was never placed upon the uncircumcised (Gentiles).

Even under Paul's ministry, the council in Jerusalem laid no greater burden of Law other than four items upon those who continue beyond the point of salvation already given freely as a gift at the moment of faith, not upon the basis of works.

If salvation were a matter of works for us today, we could never know what point we had done enough works to say that we are saved. Where's that imaginary line in the sands of assumption? I can 't find it anywhere.

This dichotomy remains an insurmountable barrier against the works-based salvation gangs out there. This shows to us the need for rightly dividing the word of truth, not truth from falsehood, but truth from truth given that many truths in scripture do not at all apply to us today.

MM

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Turning from sin is a self effort, which is outside of grace rather than within it.

See, this is how Christian gnostics think. They think their spiritual nature saves them independent of anything they do, so there is no need to turn from sin.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Repentance, yes, for one must change his mind to receive the faith that comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God as was inspired through Paul to Gentiles the world over.

Repentance is what I would call the key practice of Christian gnosticism, but they don't define it as turning away from sin, but as turning one's mind away from the acknowledgement of sin. They they think it is not possible for their perfected spiritual being, by which they mean themselves, to sin, so any sinning comes from their old man which is not part of them because it is dead.