Thread Alert: The Most Disliked and Avoided Thread Topic

[homwardbound]

There's a frightening reality in the Christian life these days and throughout history that few dare to admit nor discuss because of the inherent discomforts this topic stirs within the mind and heart of professing believers the world over.

SIN!

"Oh, no! Not ANOTHER thread on the topic of secret, hidden sin! Why won't people just leave this one alone?

I know, I'll just click out of this thread and go to more mild pastures where I can enjoy milk-toast and wet-noodle topics that don't challenge me to to greater heights of righteousness..."

Meanwhile, if one dares attend one of those rare pulpit-pounding sermons against sin, that one may cry over his or her sins, feel deeply moved in a religious service, even build up enough courage to walk up to the front while moved by an emotional song; they even soak the rarely opened Bible with tears and still never actually repent (change of mind).

Most know how to be broken in the moment, but they don't change enough to refrain from the same sins in the hours, days, weeks or months that follow. Most feel real bad inside but say to the Lord that they're so very sorry. We promise God that this time, this time indeed, it will all be different...and yet the pattern of sinful life repeats again and again and again...ad infinitum.

The emotions are always so strong at the realization that they've fallen yet again from those same sins but the chains of bondage remain intact and constraining. The sin returns like a familiar visitor; like an unwelcome guest and yet they open the door wide because, in truth, they've never moved out of the house where all those sins live.

We're so good at becoming fluent in sorrowful shows before the eyes of others and even our own image in the mirror, but we're still a stranger to true, lasting repentance.

Charles Spurgeon once warned that there is a pseudo-repentance that needs to be repented of in so many lives. He wasn't necessarily mocking all the shed tears but rather exposing a shallow kind of sorrow that leaves the heart untouched to the depths of one's being. Sin-scape overflowing through so many lives can fill altars but it doesn't empty strongholds. It can produce convulsive weeping without killing a single sin. This kind of false repentance isn't a minor weakness. It's a deadly self-deception to a life desiring righteousness, but never seeming capable of finding and embracing it.

What are your experiences with this phenomenon? I'm not looking for open confessions here, especially those that would violate the sensibilities of others with crudeness and pollution of the minds of others. It's between you and the Lord, but speaking of this ever so common problem in these bodies of death and sin we occupy, what have you learned about yourself in how to beat down and utterly defeat the sins in your life that were so hard to defeat...IF you have indeed defeated those recurring sins?

MM

Been in process by Father teaching truth to me personally. "I" can't do it, No person of any flesh can or could but Son for me, you and all others as well. We each can do much 1 Cor 13:1-3 yet I needed to see my inability Gal 6:1-9 and get imputed 1 Cor 13:4-7 by Father for me, as I can only speak for me humbly as not better than anyone else ever.
Years, trapped under Law, to not do, by that is what I kept doing, been g under Law. Now doing less of those as did before as Paul talks of in Romans 7. Which I could not fathom even after reading the same chapter over and over and over and over and over again and again
Finally seeing Phil 1-3 deeper and deeper, I have to get out from underneath law leading me in this unredeemed flesh body. seeing me as dead daily in the first born flesh. Romans 6:1-12
God does the true teaching, people do not, not even myself
I gave up under Law to now uphold Law and rejoice in Psalm 1:1-4
Remembering daily to be willingly dead to me and others around me. Yet, listen and share and edify is the goal I see God has for us all to love in the same mercy and truth of Son given us each willingly. John 13:34
Yes, bad habits have grown weaker and weaker and some I know are gone and I remain humbly thankful, not proud anymore as if I am better than others Luke 18:9-14, Romans 2:1-4. Matthew 18:24-35

 

[Musicmaster]

Been in process by Father teaching truth to me personally. "I" can't do it, No person of any flesh can or could but Son for me, you and all others as well. We each can do much 1 Cor 13:1-3 yet I needed to see my inability Gal 6:1-9 and get imputed 1 Cor 13:4-7 by Father for me, as I can only speak for me humbly as not better than anyone else ever.
Years, trapped under Law, to not do, by that is what I kept doing, been g under Law. Now doing less of those as did before as Paul talks of in Romans 7. Which I could not fathom even after reading the same chapter over and over and over and over and over again and again
Finally seeing Phil 1-3 deeper and deeper, I have to get out from underneath law leading me in this unredeemed flesh body. seeing me as dead daily in the first born flesh. Romans 6:1-12
God does the true teaching, people do not, not even myself
I gave up under Law to now uphold Law and rejoice in Psalm 1:1-4
Remembering daily to be willingly dead to me and others around me. Yet, listen and share and edify is the goal I see God has for us all to love in the same mercy and truth of Son given us each willingly. John 13:34
Yes, bad habits have grown weaker and weaker and some I know are gone and I remain humbly thankful, not proud anymore as if I am better than others Luke 18:9-14, Romans 2:1-4. Matthew 18:24-35

What's puzzling is all the false teaching from teachers of such claiming that one must "turn from sin," as if that were even possible. They ignore what Paul wrote and then claim that stating the reality of sin, even in the flesh, is self-defeating against turning from it...again, as if that were possible. They show to us no threshold as to what constitutes where that imaginary line is located that provides a clear indication of its location in relation to sin. Who among us has completely turned from his or her sin? That's like saying that they have no sin, which makes them liars.

Additionally, how can anyone know he or she is saved if avoiding that imaginary line were the basis for salvation? This all is so false and manipulative. It's the sin of witchcraft and sorcery to try enslaving others to a doctrine nowhere laid down in the lives of the body of Christ today within this dispensation of grace.

Good stuff, HB.

MM

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

If you will repent of your earthly sabbath obsession God will show you the true heavenly sabbath

All I could put here is a question mark. Are you 7th day Adventist?

 

[pinebeach]

Please see post #2 in this thread. Paul is the one who stated that, so if you disagree with that, you're disagreeing with God who inspired Paul to write that down for our benefit. Paul said it twice, in verse 17 and again in verse 20.

MM

No worries I am pretty thorough for the most part. Sin in you is not deciding to go ahead without your knowledge as some kind of entity engaging in activities your flesh loathes. That is not at all what Paul was saying. He was identifying the fact that our flesh on this earth, will always have the ability to sin. And we do; probably more often than we know since we live with it and have lived with it for thousands of years.

Thank God we do get new bodies. Our spirits are sinless before God through Jesus' acceptable sacrifice.

All sin starts between the ears.

I am not in the least adverse to teaching/preaching on sin but what is needed more than anything in churches, is foundational from scripture. Sin would be included. But people, far far too many, do not understand their positional salvation in Jesus.

 

[homwardbound]

What's puzzling is all the false teaching from teachers of such claiming that one must "turn from sin," as if that were even possible. They ignore what Paul wrote and then claim that stating the reality of sin, even in the flesh, is self-defeating against turning from it...again, as if that were possible. They show to us no threshold as to what constitutes where that imaginary line is located that provides a clear indication of its location in relation to sin. Who among us has completely turned from his or her sin? That's like saying that they have no sin, which makes them liars.

Additionally, how can anyone know he or she is saved if avoiding that imaginary line were the basis for salvation? This all is so false and manipulative. It's the sin of witchcraft and sorcery to try enslaving others to a doctrine nowhere laid down in the lives of the body of Christ today within this dispensation of grace.

Good stuff, HB.

MM

Whew, it takes to not quit belief to God to see new from God not condemning us after Son did what Son has done for all.
What? the religious will think and say and state you better or else
God frees our souls in the risen son for me at least to love all wholeheartedly so. Now I have been in past most terrible and see this as well in Romans 2:1-4, I see to stop, accusing, abusing and or excusing anyone, even myself
I do not ever want to be returned to the King as in Matthew 18:24-35 tells me of
I am forgiven, so I simply willingly forgive, I am loved, and only see why, I am loved first by God through Son Woe is me Isaiah 6:1-7

 

[pinebeach]

Romans 7:14–25 is a passage that has caused some confusion among Bible students because of the strong language Paul uses to describe himself. How can the greatest of the apostles characterize himself, and by extension, all Christians, as “unspiritual,” a “slave to sin” and a “prisoner of the law of sin”? Aren’t these descriptions used in Romans 7:14–25 descriptions of unbelievers? How can Paul describe himself in these terms if he is truly saved? The key to understanding Romans 7:14–25 is Paul’s description of the two natures of a Christian. Prior to salvation, we have only one nature—the sin nature. But once we come to Christ, we are new creations in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17), but we still abide in the old flesh which has the remains of the sinful nature within it. These two natures war constantly with one another, continually pulling the believer in opposite directions.
more

 

[Musicmaster]

No worries I am pretty thorough for the most part. Sin in you is not deciding to go ahead without your knowledge as some kind of entity engaging in activities your flesh loathes.

I didn't take Paul's words as saying that, but perhaps some think in that direction.

That is not at all what Paul was saying.

Agreed.

He was identifying the fact that our flesh on this earth, will always have the ability to sin. And we do; probably more often than we know since we live with it and have lived with it for thousands of years.

Agreed.

Thank God we do get new bodies. Our spirits are sinless before God through Jesus' acceptable sacrifice.

True indeed.

All sin starts between the ears.

In a manner of speaking.

I am not in the least adverse to teaching/preaching on sin but what is needed more than anything in churches, is foundational from scripture. Sin would be included. But people, far far too many, do not understand their positional salvation in Jesus.

True indeed. The works-based crowd has an impossible task to prove their case from scripture.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

Romans 7:14–25 is a passage that has caused some confusion among Bible students because of the strong language Paul uses to describe himself. How can the greatest of the apostles characterize himself, and by extension, all Christians, as “unspiritual,” a “slave to sin” and a “prisoner of the law of sin”? Aren’t these descriptions used in Romans 7:14–25 descriptions of unbelievers? How can Paul describe himself in these terms if he is truly saved? The key to understanding Romans 7:14–25 is Paul’s description of the two natures of a Christian. Prior to salvation, we have only one nature—the sin nature. But once we come to Christ, we are new creations in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17), but we still abide in the old flesh which has the remains of the sinful nature within it. These two natures war constantly with one another, continually pulling the believer in opposite directions.
more

Perspective is the key. Dare we consider the fullness of the righteousness of God in comparison to even Enoch himself who walked with God, the gulf would remain insurmountable no matter what human one would care to put forth for that comparison. So, it's not at all surprising that Paul likely was of that mind when looking at himself by reflective comparison.

MM

 

[tourist]

Seriously??

Yeah, in 1976 or 1977, can't remember the year. At a well-known bookstore in Lansing, Michigan. Saw him leave in a limo. Interesting experience.

Another interesting experience had me shaking Tiny Tim's hand in a well-known record store in a suburb of Detroit. This was before he married Miss Vicky on the Tonight Show.

Also my daughter and I saw Jimmy Carter and his wife Rozelin in the China Expo at the Magic Kingdom in Walt Disney World. Think that my daughter was 8 or 9 at the time. She waved hi and they, standing about 6 feet from us, smiled and waved back.

Quite memorable experiences.

 

[Solitude]

Waaaa? Sorry, that doesn't fly. But yes Jesus has all sin covered if we are a believer who believes.

Jesus never shed His blood for unrepented sins.

 

[pinebeach]

Perspective is the key. Dare we consider the fullness of the righteousness of God in comparison to even Enoch himself who walked with God, the gulf would remain insurmountable no matter what human one would care to put forth for that comparison. So, it's not at all surprising that Paul likely was of that mind when looking at himself by reflective comparison.

MM

I don't know what was going on in Paul's mind when he wrote what he did anywhere in scripture other than what he expressed.
I will say this though. Pauls perspective seems to be this side of heaven, we will have, still, somewhat of a sin struggle. Less as we continue probably, thankfully, prayerfully.,

pinebeach said:
No worries I am pretty thorough for the most part. Sin in you is not deciding to go ahead without your knowledge as some kind entity engaging in activities your flesh loathes.

MM:
I didn't take Paul's words as saying that, but perhaps some think in that direction.

Back at yah:
Well then perhaps clarify what exactly you did/do have in mind because, I, in my limited knowledge of how youl think, thought you did.

 

[Musicmaster]

I don't know what was going on in Paul's mind when he wrote what he did anywhere in scripture other than what he expressed.
I will say this though. Pauls perspective seems to be this side of heaven, we will have, still, somewhat of a sin struggle. Less as we continue probably, thankfully, prayerfully.,

pinebeach said:
No worries I am pretty thorough for the most part. Sin in you is not deciding to go ahead without your knowledge as some kind entity engaging in activities your flesh loathes.

MM:
I didn't take Paul's words as saying that, but perhaps some think in that direction.

Back at yah:
Well then perhaps clarify what exactly you did/do have in mind because, I, in my limited knowledge of how youl think, thought you did.

Paul was showing to us how he was no better than anyone else in that he too still struggled with sin and still did those things that he would not otherwise do. That's just the nature of our...nature...in this world and in these bodies of death (as he called it). We've probably all met those who seem to have an air of sinlessness, having no private struggles with sin at times, as if the amount of sin in their flesh is far less than ours...that they have conquered sin to a far greater measure than most others around them...

Well, Paul made it clear that he was no such type. In this Westernized culture of ours whereby we remain mostly isolated and secretive in relation to all others as a defensive mechanism and as it simply being the way we've been raised here in the West in the rudiments of self-reliance and self-sufficiency. Fellowship - TRUE fellowship - is a rare phenomenon in America and most European nations.

So, to avoid going off onto that tangent, Paul still struggled with sin in his members as all other men. He considered himself chief among sinners, but who among us isn't...?

MM

 

[homwardbound]

Romans 7:14–25 is a passage that has caused some confusion among Bible students because of the strong language Paul uses to describe himself. How can the greatest of the apostles characterize himself, and by extension, all Christians, as “unspiritual,” a “slave to sin” and a “prisoner of the law of sin”? Aren’t these descriptions used in Romans 7:14–25 descriptions of unbelievers? How can Paul describe himself in these terms if he is truly saved? The key to understanding Romans 7:14–25 is Paul’s description of the two natures of a Christian. Prior to salvation, we have only one nature—the sin nature. But once we come to Christ, we are new creations in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17), but we still abide in the old flesh which has the remains of the sinful nature within it. These two natures war constantly with one another, continually pulling the believer in opposite directions.
more

Paul, I see explains the difference being in flesh and blood and made alive, new in Father's Spirit and Truth of Father for us, given to us by Son as risen, so we can rest and not abuse, accuse or excuse anyone anymore, not even self Hebrews 4:9-13
Showing the new you in Father and Son as Won for us to be new in love to all. I state all, not just those, one likes and agrees with, those we do not agree with, deeper Matt 10:16-20, Luke 21:14-15
Do you have people you have not forgiven? I used to, before seeing the new from Father given me through Son. I get leveled whenever I read Romans 2:1-4, And Romans 14:1-4

How to accept 2 Cor 12:7-10 woe is me, learning this daily as I go through things here on earth.
Thanking Father and Son as Won for us all 1 John 2:1-27

 

[GWH]

The most avoided topic on CC IMO is how to answer the prayer of Jesus and command of Paul for Christian/spiritual unity.

 

[homwardbound]

Paul was showing to us how he was no better than anyone else in that he too still struggled with sin and still did those things that he would not otherwise do. That's just the nature of our...nature...in this world and in these bodies of death (as he called it). We've probably all met those who seem to have an air of sinlessness, having no private struggles with sin at times, as if the amount of sin in their flesh is far less than ours...that they have conquered sin to a far greater measure than most others around them...

Well, Paul made it clear that he was no such type. In this Westernized culture of ours whereby we remain mostly isolated and secretive in relation to all others as a defensive mechanism and as it simply being the way we've been raised here in the West in the rudiments of self-reliance and self-sufficiency. Fellowship - TRUE fellowship - is a rare phenomenon in America and most European nations.

So, to avoid going off onto that tangent, Paul still struggled with sin in his members as all other men. He considered himself chief among sinners, but who among us isn't...?

MM

I Get it, thank you 2 Cor 12:7-10
We have today people that glory in their iniquities and those that use them to get people under them as if others are better than others, Luke 18:9-14
Being forgiven is Justified, saved by God Father in risen Son to learn new and love all, not a few as did in first birth only, being selfish as I see to not be now, thanks learning new daily standing in trust to God. It is done for us by Son to us in his willing one time death alone. John 19:30
All that is left is to believe, he is risen where new life form Father, Daddy, PaPa is the gift given to love all, not a few as all have done
It is the love and mercy that overcame evil, God's Son as Won has done this for us all. to stand in Col 1:21-22
Thank you Father and Son as Won (One)

 

[pinebeach]

Paul was showing to us how he was no better than anyone else in that he too still struggled with sin and still did those things that he would not otherwise do. That's just the nature of our...nature...in this world and in these bodies of death (as he called it). We've probably all met those who seem to have an air of sinlessness, having no private struggles with sin at times, as if the amount of sin in their flesh is far less than ours...that they have conquered sin to a far greater measure than most others around them...

Well, Paul made it clear that he was no such type. In this Westernized culture of ours whereby we remain mostly isolated and secretive in relation to all others as a defensive mechanism and as it simply being the way we've been raised here in the West in the rudiments of self-reliance and self-sufficiency. Fellowship - TRUE fellowship - is a rare phenomenon in America and most European nations.

So, to avoid going off onto that tangent, Paul still struggled with sin in his members as all other men. He considered himself chief among sinners, but who among us isn't...?

MM

Well I always thought that. Thank you for clarifying.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I believe that there are ample threads concerning sin. No one is utterly capable of defeating sin in their lives.

Fortunately, the Holy Spirit will comfort and guide those who sincerely desire positive spiritual change in their lives.

I enjoy threads about coffee and donuts but avoid threads about milk-toast and wet noodles.

You authored a well-written OP though. Hopefully, it will get a few replies.

There’s a certain attitude we need to have that comes when we begin to allow these types things be true

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:26-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:1-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death,

or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were ( pat tense ) the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:16-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Old man

“But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭64:6‬ ‭

can become a new man has to be through Gods way though

“if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; and be renewed in the spirit of your mind; and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:21-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

A new man is born through believing the gospel part of the thing that changes us is accepting that sin is death , it’s a curse and a liar a thief ect

We don’t just keep acting the same as a slave to sin and say we’re righteous and saved there’s power in the doctrine to actually deliver us from the control sin had on us that we freely chose to give away the gospel actually can change us