There will be no Rapture!!!
- Thread starter Romans1012
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Do you think parables are fictional stories? I ask because I'm left thinking that as it appears you think the coming and going of a demon doesn't really happen. Jesus made up the story to illustrate a truth?
Whether it is a parable (or analogy which is what I believe), I see no reason to think that demons coming and going is not something that occurs in reality. All of Jesus parables have their basis in reality.
Whether it is a parable (or analogy which is what I believe), I see no reason to think that demons coming and going is not something that occurs in reality. All of Jesus parables have their basis in reality.
I see them as true, and do you think all parables are literal?
Let me explain by using another parable, where you may agree with me.
Matt 13:45 "Again the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant seeking beautiful pearls, who when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had and bought it."
This parable is not about a real merchant and it is not about a real pearl of such beauty.
The merchant is Jesus Christ, we are the beautiful pearls and the pearl of great price is the Bride, whom Jesus paid all that He had(even His own life)... for us.
If someone starts to tell me that this story shows me that there are literally merchants out there that will sell all they have for beautiful pearls and therefore is a great picture with great truths is the same as trying to tell me the man in Luke has demons that come and go as they please so I guess I'm just going to hope we can agree to disagree on that point and be happy we have differing views.
Matt 13:45 "Again the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant seeking beautiful pearls, who when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had and bought it."
This parable is not about a real merchant and it is not about a real pearl of such beauty.
The merchant is Jesus Christ, we are the beautiful pearls and the pearl of great price is the Bride, whom Jesus paid all that He had(even His own life)... for us.
If someone starts to tell me that this story shows me that there are literally merchants out there that will sell all they have for beautiful pearls and therefore is a great picture with great truths is the same as trying to tell me the man in Luke has demons that come and go as they please so I guess I'm just going to hope we can agree to disagree on that point and be happy we have differing views.
But pearls and merchants are real! And used as examples to make a point about truth.
Likewise, it is real when demons cause some people to function as someone disabled by a medical condition.
But, in their case? Their disablement was not caused by some disease. It only appeared to be.
In the Book of Job Satan's power was used to give Job skin cancer!
So...
When someone who is wheeled in a wheel chair goes before a charlatan? A charlatan as Jesus described in Matthew 7:21-23?
When spoken a command which will be given in the name of Jesus? Demons love to deceive believers!
Certain demons are in agreement to deceive. So that when the agent of Satan who claims to be a servant of Christ
commands a condition to be healed in the name of Jesus? The demon will gladly remove their effects from that body
to make the deception complete.
And, in doing so. It causes naïve believers (and superstitious unbelievers) to become disciples of the alleged Christian leader.
"I never knew you?"
That means, those alleged Christian healers were never saved!
We need to know and accept these things to be protected from evil deception which is wanting to draw believers away from sound doctrinal teachings.
In Christ.....
Likewise, it is real when demons cause some people to function as someone disabled by a medical condition.
But, in their case? Their disablement was not caused by some disease. It only appeared to be.
In the Book of Job Satan's power was used to give Job skin cancer!
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven,
but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name,
and cast out demons in your name, and do many miracles in your name?’
And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers
of lawlessness.’ Matthew 7:21-23
So...
When someone who is wheeled in a wheel chair goes before a charlatan? A charlatan as Jesus described in Matthew 7:21-23?
When spoken a command which will be given in the name of Jesus? Demons love to deceive believers!
Certain demons are in agreement to deceive. So that when the agent of Satan who claims to be a servant of Christ
commands a condition to be healed in the name of Jesus? The demon will gladly remove their effects from that body
to make the deception complete.
And, in doing so. It causes naïve believers (and superstitious unbelievers) to become disciples of the alleged Christian leader.
On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name,
and cast out demons in your name, and do many miracles in your name?’
And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers
of lawlessness.’ Matthew 7:21-23
"I never knew you?"
That means, those alleged Christian healers were never saved!
We need to know and accept these things to be protected from evil deception which is wanting to draw believers away from sound doctrinal teachings.
In Christ.....
I don't see parables as literal but they are based on real events. Merchants are real, valuables pearls are real. Merchants seeking valuable pearls is real and the ability to sell all you have to gain one is real. If none of those things were a reality then Jesus could not say "the Kingdom of God is like.."
Ergo demons leaving a person is real, wandering is real, returning to the body they left is real, gathering other demons to join is real. To say these things don't really happen because it's a story? I see no justification for it.
Agreeing to disagree is what I can agree on.
Ergo demons leaving a person is real, wandering is real, returning to the body they left is real, gathering other demons to join is real. To say these things don't really happen because it's a story? I see no justification for it.
Agreeing to disagree is what I can agree on.
-
1
- Show all
Yes they have to be real so they can convey a picture, project a shadow, give us a type so we can have allegory and metaphor.
Lambs are real!
When John said "behold the Lamb of God" he was pointing to Jesus the unblemished lamb of God.
If Jesus held a lead and was leading a pet lamb down to the Jordan the onlookers would be mighty confused and a little bit perplexed at John, for we must remove the literal from the scenario to see the picture.
In other words Jesus is not literally or really a lamb, He is not literally a merchant and we are not really pearls although they paint a great picture declaring many things about the Lord and us.
The parable in Luke about the man/house where the spirit has been vacated is a picture a type declaring to us truths just like the Lamb, the merchant and the pearl, to me its not about the literal rendering it's not about an actual man, a house, a wooly little lamb or a nice old merchant its about Israel and their denial of their Messiah, and even though they will be swept clean and put in order, its temporarily. For me one day and probably soon they will again see what real demonic activity is.
Lambs are real!
When John said "behold the Lamb of God" he was pointing to Jesus the unblemished lamb of God.
If Jesus held a lead and was leading a pet lamb down to the Jordan the onlookers would be mighty confused and a little bit perplexed at John, for we must remove the literal from the scenario to see the picture.
In other words Jesus is not literally or really a lamb, He is not literally a merchant and we are not really pearls although they paint a great picture declaring many things about the Lord and us.
The parable in Luke about the man/house where the spirit has been vacated is a picture a type declaring to us truths just like the Lamb, the merchant and the pearl, to me its not about the literal rendering it's not about an actual man, a house, a wooly little lamb or a nice old merchant its about Israel and their denial of their Messiah, and even though they will be swept clean and put in order, its temporarily. For me one day and probably soon they will again see what real demonic activity is.
If everyone already believed in the rapture there would be less likely to be large amounts of material to refute those opposed to the idea, just the small amounts that we have that support a catching away to be with the Lord, but then again without the help of recording devices who knows what the layman believed and preached.
Yes.
Jesus was born when the Mosaic Law was in effect. John was the son of Zachariah, a Jewish high priest from the tribe of Levi. John is the son of a high priest. Also, he had taken the vow of a Nazarite. This was another level of devotion characterized by cleanliness. John, therefore, met the requirements of an exceptional high priest under the Law.
We know the story: Jesus approaches John to be baptized. John’s response is “I need to be baptized by you!” Jesus insists that John baptize him to “fulfill all righteousness”. The fulfillment of righteousness is this: under the law, all sacrifices must be without spot or blemish. Jesus, leading up to his resurrection, was examined and washed, then, by a super priest from the order of Levi. This is why He insisted that John baptize Him: Jesus was the Lamb provided by God.
Jesus was born when the Mosaic Law was in effect. John was the son of Zachariah, a Jewish high priest from the tribe of Levi. John is the son of a high priest. Also, he had taken the vow of a Nazarite. This was another level of devotion characterized by cleanliness. John, therefore, met the requirements of an exceptional high priest under the Law.
We know the story: Jesus approaches John to be baptized. John’s response is “I need to be baptized by you!” Jesus insists that John baptize him to “fulfill all righteousness”. The fulfillment of righteousness is this: under the law, all sacrifices must be without spot or blemish. Jesus, leading up to his resurrection, was examined and washed, then, by a super priest from the order of Levi. This is why He insisted that John baptize Him: Jesus was the Lamb provided by God.
-
1
- Show all
He was examined by the requirements of the Law and was perfect.
He was examined by Satan and was faultless.
He was examined by the rulers and the Governing authority and Pilate declared him as having done no wrong.
He was examined by God and God declared "This is my son in whom I am well pleased"
He's examined by repentant man and declared "my Lord and my God"
I hope people examine Him more and more.
He was examined by Satan and was faultless.
He was examined by the rulers and the Governing authority and Pilate declared him as having done no wrong.
He was examined by God and God declared "This is my son in whom I am well pleased"
He's examined by repentant man and declared "my Lord and my God"
I hope people examine Him more and more.
-
1
- Show all
The body of Christ is a living spiritual organism. One that is to be growing and maturing in grace and knowledge.
What you claimed was only being taught two hundred years ago? Was also to be found hidden in Scripture from its beginning.
Note:
The Bible reveals in Revelation that Israel must be a nation when Jesus returns.
It was only since May 14, 1948 that it could be taught as reality...
Keep in mind.. That was only about 76 years ago!!!
Seems like you have been listening to a muddled minded argument.
By minds looking for an excuse not to believe.
For what difference does it make how long some truth has been recognized to make it true?
There are other things in Scripture that could not been understood at the time of writing.
Like the great pharmaceutical merchants deceiving the nations like we see happening right before our eyes.
Here is what believers were reading 200 years ago....
Revelation 18:23
Authorized (King James) Version
and the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom
Authorized (King James) Version
and the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom
and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men
of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
200 years ago they had no idea what the Greek translated 'sorceries' would come into light to meaning as to what we can now know today! It can be understood two ways... And, both are applicable to our day.
By means of your 'pharmakeia' all the nations of the world were deceived."
The Greek word pharmakeia appears in Galatians 5:20 and Revelation 18:23.
Terms from the same root word appear in Revelation 9:21, Revelation 21:8,
and Revelation 22:15. These are typically translated into English as “sorcery,”
“witchcraft,” or “sorcerer.” Ancient Greek uses of pharmakeia closely mirror
the generic modern English word drugs ; the same Greek root word produced
English terms such as pharmacy and pharmacist.
Both the pharmasuetical companies (it says, the great merchants of the earth) and the prevailing wide us of illicit drug are simultaneously warping and hurting our national psyche and well being. Drug use for many has been causing an inability
to be clear thinking on issues.
So? How many years does it take for truth to be understood?
In Christ .......
Revelation is a hard book to understand because it is symbolic. You have to be very careful with your interpretation, to make sure you understand its true meaning. Too many people have speculated about its meanings and arrived at some wild conclusions.
Revelation 18:21-23 is talking about the destruction of The city of Babylon. Babylon represented “wickedness.” I don’t know how you get the “doctrine” that Israel must be a nation when Jesus returns. Jesus never promised to set his foot on the earth again. We will meet him in the air.
2 Peter 3:10 says when the Lord comes back, the heavens will pass away and the earth will be burned up! There will only be ONE return for the Lord.. There will be only 1 “catching up” and that will be at the judgement when the Lord returns. There will be only 1 judgement.
Ecc. 7:29 says “…men have sought out many schemes.” Yes, they have, but that doesn’t make them true.
Revelation 18:21-23 is talking about the destruction of The city of Babylon. Babylon represented “wickedness.” I don’t know how you get the “doctrine” that Israel must be a nation when Jesus returns. Jesus never promised to set his foot on the earth again. We will meet him in the air.
2 Peter 3:10 says when the Lord comes back, the heavens will pass away and the earth will be burned up! There will only be ONE return for the Lord.. There will be only 1 “catching up” and that will be at the judgement when the Lord returns. There will be only 1 judgement.
Ecc. 7:29 says “…men have sought out many schemes.” Yes, they have, but that doesn’t make them true.