There will be no Rapture!!!

[TheDivineWatermark]

you do know that Daniel also spoke of this too right?

Please be specific.

I covered a lot of ground in that post; so I'm not sure what SPECIFICALLY you are meaning by your word "this" (daniel also spoke of THIS... this what? do you mean?)






If you're meaning "GREAT tribulation," yes... I showed where he is saying HALF OF THE SEVEN YEARS ARE REMAINING (Dan 12 vv.1,6-7), i.e. the SECOND HALF.

Whereas the FIRST HALF of the 7 years starts way back at Dan11:36! (Compare this verse [or vv.36-37] w/ 2Th2:8,9a,b,4a describing "the man of sin [AC])

 

[Genez]

LOL, do a study on the word Disease guy. The word means sickness and infirmity, which can be placed on you by an act or afflicted by something or person. If a demon was afflicting a person and they were removed, which caused the affliction, then they were removed. If the demon appeared to leave but did not, then they were never gone, and the affliction remained even if it was not Manifested at that time because they stopped their torment.

If Your home was robbed and the robber left, does that mean you were not robbed?

You are not connecting the dots.

But, it seems you have learned how to appear to win an argument by stubbornly outlasting someone who is making sense.

...............

 

[CS1]

You are not connecting the dots.

But, it seems you have learned how to appear to win an argument by stubbornly outlasting someone who is making sense.

...............

Just show me in the word of GOD where demons leave a person to make them appear to be healed. Now, if that is your opinion, I respect it but disagree

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

you do know that Daniel also spoke of this too right?

Again, IF by your word "THIS" you are referring to the "GREAT tribulation," then YES I pointed out what DANIEL HAD SAID about it:

[in my post you quoted but didn't seem to READ, I'd put...]
[...] its star player "the man of sin"--his "whose COMING / ADVENT / ARRIVAL / PRESENCE / PAROUSIA" 2Th2:9a... corresponding with both Dan11:36 AND Dan9:27a[,26b]
--both of which take place BEFORE the MID-trib verses of Dan12:1,6-7 / 9:27b! [which is the commencement of the GREAT tribulation / 2nd HALF of the 7 yrs])

And in my earlier post, I'd pointed out that Jesus' words in Matt24:15 (AOD [singular/singular]) connect back to Daniel 12:11!

 

[Genez]

can you, as I ASKED, show me where a demon conspires to deceive people by voluntarily leaving their "host" in order to give the appearance that people are healed by the false prophet/teacher.

They do conspire all the time...

One can (without you knowing) whisper into your soul and make you think erroneous ideas. If you have not been humbly grounded in an accurate understanding of God's Word? And, desire to give the impression of being a strong man? They can use you, and anyone else who operates in the sense of pride.

.... it happens all the time.

That is why God tells us that in the church there will be winners ... and losers.

To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, ​

just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne." Rev 3:21​

That does not say that everyone qualifies.

So, be very careful how you try to win.

In Christ ..................

 

[Genez]

Just show me in the word of GOD where demons leave a person to make them appear to be healed. Now, if that is your opinion, I respect it but disagree

One could say... Cured of epilepsy,

Mark 9:14-29​

​

14 When they came to the other disciples, they saw a large crowd around them and the teachers of the law arguing with them. 15 As soon as all the people saw Jesus, they were overwhelmed with wonder and ran to greet him.​

​

16 “What are you arguing with them about?” he asked.​

​

17 A man in the crowd answered, “Teacher, I brought you my son, who is possessed by a spirit that has robbed him of speech. 18 Whenever it seizes him, it throws him to the ground. He foams at the mouth, gnashes his teeth and becomes rigid. I asked your disciples to drive out the spirit, but they could not.”​

​

19 “You unbelieving generation,” Jesus replied, “how long shall I stay with you? How long shall I put up with you? Bring the boy to me.”​

​

20 So they brought him. When the spirit saw Jesus, it immediately threw the boy into a convulsion. He fell to the ground and rolled around, foaming at the mouth.​

​

21 Jesus asked the boy’s father, “How long has he been like this?”​

​

“From childhood,” he answered. 22 “It has often thrown him into fire or water to kill him. But if you can do anything, take pity on us and help us.”​

​

23 “‘If you can’?” said Jesus. “Everything is possible for one who believes.”​

​

24 Immediately the boy’s father exclaimed, “I do believe; help me overcome my unbelief!”​

​

25 When Jesus saw that a crowd was running to the scene, he rebuked the impure spirit. “You deaf and mute spirit,” he said, “I command you, come out of him and never enter him again.”​

​

26 The spirit shrieked, convulsed him violently and came out. The boy looked so much like a corpse that many said, “He’s dead.” 27 But Jesus took him by the hand and lifted him to his feet, and he stood up.​

​

28 After Jesus had gone indoors, his disciples asked him privately, “Why couldn’t we drive it out?”​

​

29 He replied, “This kind can come out only by prayer.”​

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Again, IF by your word "THIS" you are referring to the "GREAT tribulation," then YES I pointed out what DANIEL HAD SAID about it:

[in my post you quoted but didn't seem to READ, I'd put...]
[...] its star player "the man of sin"--his "whose COMING / ADVENT / ARRIVAL / PRESENCE / PAROUSIA" 2Th2:9a... corresponding with both Dan11:36 AND Dan9:27a[,26b]
--both of which take place BEFORE the MID-trib verses of Dan12:1,6-7 / 9:27b! [which is the commencement of the GREAT tribulation / 2nd HALF of the 7 yrs])

And in my earlier post, I'd pointed out that Jesus' words in Matt24:15 (AOD [singular/singular]) connect back to Daniel 12:11!

...and as a side note to the above...


Daniel 12:1-4,1 is parallel language to that found in:

--Ezekiel 37:12-14,20-23 (the "dry bones" prophecy about Israel's future);

--Hosea 5:14-6:3 (same);

--Isaiah 26:13-21,19 (same);

--Romans 11:15 "...what shall the receiving of them [Israel] be, but LIFE FROM THE DEAD" (same);

--etc

COMPARE THE LANGUAGE USED in each of these passages.


ALL OF THESE passages are LIKENING to a "resurrection" Israel "coming up out of the graveyard of nations, WHERE SCATTERED"

(NONE of these 5 listed passages [and more] are speaking of a "bodily / physical resurrection from the dead"--INCLUDING Dan12:1-4,1!! the start of the SECOND HALF of the 7 yr period [i.e. GREAT tribulation])

 

[CS1]

Again, IF by your word "THIS" you are referring to the "GREAT tribulation," then YES I pointed out what DANIEL HAD SAID about it:




And in my earlier post, I'd pointed out that Jesus' words in Matt24:15 (AOD [singular/singular]) connect back to Daniel 12:11!

ok

 

[CS1]

They do conspire all the time...

One can (without you knowing) whisper into your soul and make you think erroneous ideas. If you have not been humbly grounded in an accurate understanding of God's Word? And, desire to give the impression of being a strong man? They can use you, and anyone else who operates in the sense of pride.

.... it happens all the time.

That is why God tells us that in the church there will be winners ... and losers.

To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, ​

just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne." Rev 3:21​

That does not say that everyone qualifies.

So, be very careful how you try to win.

In Christ ..................

I just wish you would show such things in the word of God. Demons fully understand the Supreme Authority of the Lord Jesus Christ. They must Bow and Obey, which is established as a normative in the word of God.

 

[CS1]

One could say... Cured of epilepsy,

Mark 9:14-29​

​

14 When they came to the other disciples, they saw a large crowd around them and the teachers of the law arguing with them. 15 As soon as all the people saw Jesus, they were overwhelmed with wonder and ran to greet him.​

​

16 “What are you arguing with them about?” he asked.​

​

17 A man in the crowd answered, “Teacher, I brought you my son, who is possessed by a spirit that has robbed him of speech. 18 Whenever it seizes him, it throws him to the ground. He foams at the mouth, gnashes his teeth and becomes rigid. I asked your disciples to drive out the spirit, but they could not.”​

​

19 “You unbelieving generation,” Jesus replied, “how long shall I stay with you? How long shall I put up with you? Bring the boy to me.”​

​

20 So they brought him. When the spirit saw Jesus, it immediately threw the boy into a convulsion. He fell to the ground and rolled around, foaming at the mouth.​

​

21 Jesus asked the boy’s father, “How long has he been like this?”​

​

“From childhood,” he answered. 22 “It has often thrown him into fire or water to kill him. But if you can do anything, take pity on us and help us.”​

​

23 “‘If you can’?” said Jesus. “Everything is possible for one who believes.”​

​

24 Immediately the boy’s father exclaimed, “I do believe; help me overcome my unbelief!”​

​

25 When Jesus saw that a crowd was running to the scene, he rebuked the impure spirit. “You deaf and mute spirit,” he said, “I command you, come out of him and never enter him again.”​

​

26 The spirit shrieked, convulsed him violently and came out. The boy looked so much like a corpse that many said, “He’s dead.” 27 But Jesus took him by the hand and lifted him to his feet, and he stood up.​

​

28 After Jesus had gone indoors, his disciples asked him privately, “Why couldn’t we drive it out?”​

​

29 He replied, “This kind can come out only by prayer.”​

Just show me in the word of GOD where demons leave a person to make them appear to be healed. Now, if that is your opinion, I respect it but disagree

 

[Genez]

I just wish you would show such things in the word of God. Demons fully understand the Supreme Authority of the Lord Jesus Christ. They must Bow and Obey, which is established as a normative in the word of God.

You speak in tongues?

 

[CS1]

You speak in tongues?

you can mock and scoff but you can't show me in the word of God, whereas you said

Demons leave a person to make them appear to be healed.

 

[cv5]

Our resurrected [and changed] bodies will be like His when He resurrected.
Remember when:

--He was ONLY SEEN by carefully chosen witnesses (not appearing to all people);

--two of those were walking on the Road to Emmaus, when the following happened: "After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country." - Mk16:12;

--He could pass through walls of rooms which had closed doors;

--while sitting down to meal with the two Emmaus-road-walkers, the very evening of His resurrection, it is said of Him, "and He VANISHED out of their sight" - Lk24:31


Given that our resurrected bodies will be like His, I can see how this last point could very well be LIKE how WE will just "disappear" out of sight.

I believe this is also how it is that Paul could (as he did) write about the TWO *distinct* (and OPPOSITE) "beliefs" people WILL BE coming to FOLLOWING "our Rapture" (as he wrote about in the TWO *bookended* sections of 2Th1&2 [2 chpts]--recall I've pointed out that the related phrases "the Day of the Lord" and "IN THAT DAY" when used in the SAME CONTEXTS throughout Scripture [as they are, also, here in these 2 chpts] always refer to the SAME TIME-PERIOD).

2Th2:10-12 being the BACK / LATTER BOOKEND of these two... and telling of how "God shall SEND TO THEM [to certain ones] strong delusion, SO THAT THEY should believe the LIE / the FALSE / the PSEUDEI" (following "our Rapture").


[The other "bookend" (Paul wrote) of that section being the OPPOSITE "belief" ppl will be coming to FOLLOWING "our Rapture"--SAME TIME-PERIOD being referenced by Paul, per the above]



There are so many other *elements* to consider though.

Chronister opines that the rapture event will NOT be a spectacular phenomenon easily discerned by unbelievers.
The first group that "wises up" is the wife, Israel, the elect of which comes to believe.

Dan 12:3
And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

2Th 1:10
When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ @cv5 , yep... that's pretty much exactly what I've been saying... (for many years).





____________

that the rapture event will NOT be a spectacular phenomenon easily discerned by unbelievers.

Yeah, I believe it will correspond more with Jesus' FIRST ascension (on His Resurrection Day / ON Firstfruit--Lev23:10-12 / 1Cor15:20 / Jn20:17); and that His Second Coming TO THE EARTH corresponds more with His SECOND time of going up (Acts 1--which was "VISIBLE" in their sight)--with some "40 DAYS" intervening;

IOW, the PATTERN is consistent.

 

[cv5]

^ @cv5 , yep... that's pretty much exactly what I've been saying... (for many years).





____________



Yeah, I believe it will correspond more with Jesus' FIRST ascension (on His Resurrection Day / ON Firstfruit--Lev23:10-12 / 1Cor15:20 / Jn20:17); and that His Second Coming TO THE EARTH corresponds more with His SECOND time of going up (Acts 1--which was "VISIBLE" in their sight)--with some "40 DAYS" intervening;

IOW, the PATTERN is consistent.

You have been a patient and highly valued teacher.
I will always be in your debt Sir.

 

[sawdust]

can you, as I ASKED, show me where a demon conspires to deceive people by voluntarily leaving their "host" in order to give the appearance that people are healed by the false prophet/teacher.

You were given the verse. A false teacher/prophet is casting out demons but being false, they have no authority, yet the demons are leaving. What does that tell you?

Matt.7:22
22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’

They prophesied, they cast out demons, they performed miracles but note, no healings. A demon can possess a body and give the appearance of a physical ailment like the woman who had a spirit of infirmity (Lk.13:11) Becasue there is no real physical abnormality, when the demon leaves the person is "cured" in giving the appearance of a healing. This is how they trick the gullible.

 

[Iconoclast]

There will be no pre or mid tribulation rapture. This is an invention of the dispensationalists. The Pre-Rapture was invented by the dispensationalist John Darby in the 19th century. It did not exist before that. Church history did not know a Pre-Rapture before the 19th century.

The Bible clearly states that Christians must go through the Tribulation, for Revelation 20:4 describes how Christians will be beheaded for their faith during the Tribulation. If there really was a Pre-Tribulation Rapture, then logically there would be no Christians in the Tribulation, but because there will be Christians in the Tribulation, that means there will be no Pre-Tribulation Rapture! Revelation 13:7 also declares that Christians will be given into the hand of the Antichrist, which means the Antichrist may overcome Christians and kill them.

Jesus will return only once and that is after the tribulation. Then he will gather all Christians.

The Rapture happens on the last day, just like Jesus said

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

RESURRECTION [the one Jesus spoke of] will take place "IN the last day" (i.e. IN the last Millennium), not "ON the last [24-hour] day"

(see Hosea 5:14-6:3's "after TWO days" and "IN the THIRD day" [these are not "singular 24-hr day" kind of days... though context speaking of a slightly different thing, here regarding ISRAEL]);



But Paul in 1Cor15:23 states, "[re: resurrection] BUT each in his OWN ORDER / RANK" (meaning, there is an ORDER / RANK to it, not that there remains ONLY ONE at ONE singular point in time).

 

[Genez]

you can mock and scoff but you can't show me in the word of God, whereas you said

Demons leave a person to make them appear to be healed.

More like... demons leave a person to make them appear to have been physically or mentally impaired.

If you can not grasp even that much?
I would have to be mentally impaired to think I can reason with you.

Go chase your demons all you want. They don't mind running as long as they know they know
you are ignoring sound doctrine.

 

[Genez]

you can mock and scoff but you can't show me in the word of God, whereas you said

Demons leave a person to make them appear to be healed.

So you do speak in tongues.... Got it.