The Trinity...my take.

[Dino246]

What you should do, therefore, is go through the OP line-by-line and give the scripture that you think contradicts each line of the OP.

One does not need to refute your post "line by line" for your position to be heretical; you can be solidly biblical on 99% of the issues and dead wrong on one key point.

 

[Dino246]

Please note that decrying a doctrine as heresy in no way denounces that doctrine as being unbiblical.

For it is written,

Act 24:14, But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

While your point is sound, you would do well to consider the source of the criticism. You're new here, so you likely don't know that Angela is one of the most studious and well-educated among us. If she is calling your position 'heretical', it very likely is heretical.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The Father is a Spirit without flesh inhabiting eternity (John 4:23-24, Isaiah 57:15). The Son is the same Spirit come in flesh (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4, 1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7). The Holy Ghost is the same Spirit as He is released from the physical body of the Son at His crucifixion (Luke 23:46).

This is incorrect. They all are not "the same Spirit" but three distinct divine Persons. What you are suggesting is akin to Modalism and is false doctrine.

 

[Nehemiah6]

God is not 'persons"

Well that is the closest term that you can apply. One could say "beings" instead but "persons" is well recognized and completely acceptable.

 

[Blain]

Here is how I define the Trinity.

The Father is a Spirit without flesh inhabiting eternity (John 4:23-24, Isaiah 57:15).

This is indeed true that Father is a spirit as before I became saved I asked him to prove he was real to me and that I was not alone in this world I fell asleep to wake up to a pure white place I have been to this many times since becoming saved but back then I wasn't. I was standing on the right side of him I couldn't see a physical form yet I could see him he was showing me a river of rainbow colors that defy all beauty in this world. Have you ever seen something so beautiful that you are just pouring tears from it? that is how beautiful the rainbow colors were he said it was his plan.

The Son is the same Spirit come in flesh (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4, 1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).

The Holy Ghost is the same Spirit as He is released from the physical body of the Son at His crucifixion (Luke 23:46).

(For God is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4, John 4:24).)

The Holy Ghost being distinct from the Father in that He has lived the human life of Christ and therefore has an experiential understanding of humanity.

The Son being distinct from the Father and the Holy Ghost in that He is come in flesh (while the Father and the Holy Ghost also dwell in the Person of the Son, Colossians 2:9).

I believe that the Son was begotten in the incarnation (Luke 1:35);

which does not make it impossible that He is pre-existent.

For He ascended to fill all things (Ephesians 4:10); even to exist outside of time.

I assumed this was common knowledge honestly, he clearly preexisted as in the beginning the word was with God and the word was God Jesus is the word made flesh.

For in the Bible codes of Genesis 1 it can be determined that there are ten dimensions in reality. The risen and ascended Son fills all ten.

This I have never heard of would be willing to explain?So, He is far above the fourth dimension; which is time. Therefore Jesus exists outside of time.

And because He exists outside of time, His existence extends into eternity past.

Thus, the Father created the worlds through Jesus Christ; since Christ existed in the beginning;

While the beginning of His life (as the Son in flesh) happened at the juncture of Luke 1:35.

Some have tried to define this theology as not being the Trinity by giving it the label of "Coexistent Modalism".

I think that such is a slander on the doctrine.

I developed this doctrine as an emphasis on the Oneness of God in the Trinity, as a response to mormon theology; which has also infiltrated the minds of some who call themselves Trinitarians; that there are three beings who are God;

i.e. that the Father IS NOT the Son IS NOT the Holy Ghost.

I would declare that they are the same Spirit (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4) and therefore, also, in a specific sense, the same Person.

While they are also three distinct Persons according to the beginning statements of this post

Absolutely spot on.

I am not the best at quoting so bear with me but there are several points you made that I wanted to touch on.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Wow...a lot of naysayers...

You are mistakenly assuming that your view is biblical but it is not. So count me as one of the "naysayers" who rejects your false idea of who God is.

 

[Nehemiah6]

That's the problem!

Exactly.

 

[Bruce_Leiter]

Here is how I define the Trinity.

The Father is a Spirit without flesh inhabiting eternity (John 4:23-24, Isaiah 57:15).

The Son is the same Spirit come in flesh (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4, 1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).

The Holy Ghost is the same Spirit as He is released from the physical body of the Son at His crucifixion (Luke 23:46).

(For God is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4, John 4:24).)

The Holy Ghost being distinct from the Father in that He has lived the human life of Christ and therefore has an experiential understanding of humanity.

The Son being distinct from the Father and the Holy Ghost in that He is come in flesh (while the Father and the Holy Ghost also dwell in the Person of the Son, Colossians 2:9).

I believe that the Son was begotten in the incarnation (Luke 1:35); which does not make it impossible that He is pre-existent.

For He ascended to fill all things (Ephesians 4:10); even to exist outside of time.

For in the Bible codes of Genesis 1 it can be determined that there are ten dimensions in reality. The risen and ascended Son fills all ten. So, He is far above the fourth dimension; which is time. Therefore Jesus exists outside of time.

And because He exists outside of time, His existence extends into eternity past.

Thus, the Father created the worlds through Jesus Christ; since Christ existed in the beginning;

While the beginning of His life (as the Son in flesh) happened at the juncture of Luke 1:35.

Some have tried to define this theology as not being the Trinity by giving it the label of "Coexistent Modalism".

I think that such is a slander on the doctrine.

I developed this doctrine as an emphasis on the Oneness of God in the Trinity, as a response to mormon theology; which has also infiltrated the minds of some who call themselves Trinitarians; that there are three beings who are God;

i.e. that the Father IS NOT the Son IS NOT the Holy Ghost.

I would declare that they are the same Spirit (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4) and therefore, also, in a specific sense, the same Person.

While they are also three distinct Persons according to the beginning statements of this post.

Your last statements are confusing to me. How are the three Persons the same Person? I think that we run circles around ourselves in our human logic until we finally admit that the Trinity, as the Bible describes it, is a mystery that we can't comprehend with our limited logic and reasoning. Go to John 1. John says that in the beginning the Word was God but also separate from God (the Father). That's a mystery we can't solve. It takes a humble approach to Scripture to admit that we can't figure everything out, especially God, but it's true.'

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Here is how I define the Trinity.

The Father is a Spirit without flesh inhabiting eternity (John 4:23-24, Isaiah 57:15).

The Son is the same Spirit come in flesh (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4, 1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).

The Holy Ghost is the same Spirit as He is released from the physical body of the Son at His crucifixion (Luke 23:46).

(For God is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4, John 4:24).)

The Holy Ghost being distinct from the Father in that He has lived the human life of Christ and therefore has an experiential understanding of humanity.

The Son being distinct from the Father and the Holy Ghost in that He is come in flesh (while the Father and the Holy Ghost also dwell in the Person of the Son, Colossians 2:9).

I believe that the Son was begotten in the incarnation (Luke 1:35); which does not make it impossible that He is pre-existent.

For He ascended to fill all things (Ephesians 4:10); even to exist outside of time.

For in the Bible codes of Genesis 1 it can be determined that there are ten dimensions in reality. The risen and ascended Son fills all ten. So, He is far above the fourth dimension; which is time. Therefore Jesus exists outside of time.

And because He exists outside of time, His existence extends into eternity past.

Thus, the Father created the worlds through Jesus Christ; since Christ existed in the beginning;

While the beginning of His life (as the Son in flesh) happened at the juncture of Luke 1:35.

Some have tried to define this theology as not being the Trinity by giving it the label of "Coexistent Modalism".

I think that such is a slander on the doctrine.

I developed this doctrine as an emphasis on the Oneness of God in the Trinity, as a response to mormon theology; which has also infiltrated the minds of some who call themselves Trinitarians; that there are three beings who are God;

i.e. that the Father IS NOT the Son IS NOT the Holy Ghost.

I would declare that they are the same Spirit (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4) and therefore, also, in a specific sense, the same Person.

While they are also three distinct Persons according to the beginning statements of this post.

i really enjoyed the read thanks for taking the time to share


there’s an aspect im wondering if you noticed regarding his ascending above all things

“Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. ( father son and holy ghost together as one person )

And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So for instance this

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭19:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:48‬ ‭

“But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:12‬ ‭

My point is the name of the father the son and the Holy Ghost is Jesus. That’s where the father son and Holy Ghost are one being manifest to mankind through the gospel

To me the “ trinity “ is actually how the one true God has revealed himself to mankind and also shared of the one spirit of God who is manifest in the son and comes to be with us by the gifting of his spirit

The gospel is this

“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:20‬



“

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

defining the trinity?

I wish you well, as the finite cannot comprehend, much less define
The Infinite!:

This I do know, from His Creation:

1) three atoms = electron, proton, and neutron = one molecule

2) three = time, space, and matter = one universe

3) three = body, and soul, and spirit = one human being (1Thes 5:23)
+

"For there are Three That Bear Record in heaven, The Father,
The Word, And The Holy Ghost: and These Three Are ONE."
(1 John 5:7)

Since God's Word Of Truth Is Inspired and Preserved, That's Good
Enough for me. Amen.

 

[Zandar]

We are made in the image of God and we are a trinity of sorts(living soul,spirit/heart, flesh and bone) but we are one person. thats my take on it

 

[Saul-to-Paul]

Here is how I define the Trinity.

The Father is a Spirit without flesh inhabiting eternity (John 4:23-24, Isaiah 57:15).

The Son is the same Spirit come in flesh (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4, 1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).

The Holy Ghost is the same Spirit as He is released from the physical body of the Son at His crucifixion (Luke 23:46).

(For God is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4, John 4:24).)

The Holy Ghost being distinct from the Father in that He has lived the human life of Christ and therefore has an experiential understanding of humanity.

The Son being distinct from the Father and the Holy Ghost in that He is come in flesh (while the Father and the Holy Ghost also dwell in the Person of the Son, Colossians 2:9).

I believe that the Son was begotten in the incarnation (Luke 1:35); which does not make it impossible that He is pre-existent.

For He ascended to fill all things (Ephesians 4:10); even to exist outside of time.

For in the Bible codes of Genesis 1 it can be determined that there are ten dimensions in reality. The risen and ascended Son fills all ten. So, He is far above the fourth dimension; which is time. Therefore Jesus exists outside of time.

And because He exists outside of time, His existence extends into eternity past.

Thus, the Father created the worlds through Jesus Christ; since Christ existed in the beginning;

While the beginning of His life (as the Son in flesh) happened at the juncture of Luke 1:35.

Some have tried to define this theology as not being the Trinity by giving it the label of "Coexistent Modalism".

I think that such is a slander on the doctrine.

I developed this doctrine as an emphasis on the Oneness of God in the Trinity, as a response to mormon theology; which has also infiltrated the minds of some who call themselves Trinitarians; that there are three beings who are God;

i.e. that the Father IS NOT the Son IS NOT the Holy Ghost.

I would declare that they are the same Spirit (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4) and therefore, also, in a specific sense, the same Person.

While they are also three distinct Persons according to the beginning statements of this post.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

This is incorrect. They all are not "the same Spirit" but three distinct divine Persons. What you are suggesting is akin to Modalism and is false doctrine.

Jesus, before He was Jesus, was the WORD, Who was not flesh, but Spirit.
So, according to the definition of the Creed's, ESSENCE, is the fact that God is ONE and connected through Spirit. God is connected to us through His Spirit, when we think of God as One God. The Father is Spirit, the WORD is Spirit, the Holy Spirit is Spirit, GOD is SPIRIT!

 

[heartwashed]

One does not need to refute your post "line by line" for your position to be heretical; you can be solidly biblical on 99% of the issues and dead wrong on one key point.

So, discern that key point and refute it.

If I am wrong, I really want to know about it.

I certainly don't want to be teaching falsely on any of the issues.

But if I am decried as a heretic, that does not necessarily make me a heretic.

It merely puts me in good company with Paul the apostle (Acts 24:14 (kjv)).

 

[heartwashed]

While your point is sound, you would do well to consider the source of the criticism. You're new here, so you likely don't know that Angela is one of the most studious and well-educated among us. If she is calling your position 'heretical', it very likely is heretical.

Mat 11:25, At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

 

[heartwashed]

This is incorrect. They all are not "the same Spirit" but three distinct divine Persons. What you are suggesting is akin to Modalism and is false doctrine.

If Jesus is not the same Spirit, then He is a different spirit.

However, there is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4) who is God (John 4:24).

Therefore, if Jesus is God, then He is the same Spirit as the Father.

Otherwise He is not God.

 

[heartwashed]

Well that is the closest term that you can apply. One could say "beings" instead but "persons" is well recognized and completely acceptable.

That is mormon doctrine.

 

[heartwashed]

Your last statements are confusing to me. How are the three Persons the same Person?

Because they are the same Spirit.

 

[heartwashed]

i really enjoyed the read thanks for taking the time to share


there’s an aspect im wondering if you noticed regarding his ascending above all things

“Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. ( father son and holy ghost together as one person )

And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So for instance this

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭19:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:48‬ ‭

“But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:12‬ ‭

My point is the name of the father the son and the Holy Ghost is Jesus. That’s where the father son and Holy Ghost are one being manifest to mankind through the gospel

To me the “ trinity “ is actually how the one true God has revealed himself to mankind and also shared of the one spirit of God who is manifest in the son and comes to be with us by the gifting of his spirit

The gospel is this

“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:20‬



“

You can also see how the members of our triune Godhead are distinct from each other by reading and understanding the OP.

 

[Nehemiah6]

[QUOTE="The_Watchers_2017, post: 5080958, member: 316734"]Jesus, before He was Jesus, was the WORD, Who was not flesh, but Spirit.[/QUOTE]That is not the point. We are rejecting "the SAME Spirit" idea, which is more or less the heresy of Modalism. "The Word" (Logos) was a distinct Person from God the Father (John 1:1) and He was also God. We see Him as "the Son of Man" in Daniel 7 while we see God the Father as "the Ancient of Days". TWO DISTINCT PERSONS!

We also see Him as "the Angel of the LORD" in many OT passages. So "the SAME Spirit" did not present Himself in various modes. And it was not "the SAME Spirit" at the baptism of Jesus of Nazareth either. And now that He is the glorified MAN CHRIST JESUS in Heaven, this idea is even more unacceptable.