The Trinity...my take.

[heartwashed]

Here is how I define the Trinity.

The Father is a Spirit without flesh inhabiting eternity (John 4:23-24, Isaiah 57:15).

The Son is the same Spirit come in flesh (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4, 1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).

The Holy Ghost is the same Spirit as He is released from the physical body of the Son at His crucifixion (Luke 23:46).

(For God is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4, John 4:24).)

The Holy Ghost being distinct from the Father in that He has lived the human life of Christ and therefore has an experiential understanding of humanity.

The Son being distinct from the Father and the Holy Ghost in that He is come in flesh (while the Father and the Holy Ghost also dwell in the Person of the Son, Colossians 2:9).

I believe that the Son was begotten in the incarnation (Luke 1:35); which does not make it impossible that He is pre-existent.

For He ascended to fill all things (Ephesians 4:10); even to exist outside of time.

For in the Bible codes of Genesis 1 it can be determined that there are ten dimensions in reality. The risen and ascended Son fills all ten. So, He is far above the fourth dimension; which is time. Therefore Jesus exists outside of time.

And because He exists outside of time, His existence extends into eternity past.

Thus, the Father created the worlds through Jesus Christ; since Christ existed in the beginning;

While the beginning of His life (as the Son in flesh) happened at the juncture of Luke 1:35.

Some have tried to define this theology as not being the Trinity by giving it the label of "Coexistent Modalism".

I think that such is a slander on the doctrine.

I developed this doctrine as an emphasis on the Oneness of God in the Trinity, as a response to mormon theology; which has also infiltrated the minds of some who call themselves Trinitarians; that there are three beings who are God;

i.e. that the Father IS NOT the Son IS NOT the Holy Ghost.

I would declare that they are the same Spirit (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4) and therefore, also, in a specific sense, the same Person.

While they are also three distinct Persons according to the beginning statements of this post.

 

[heartwashed]

I think that this OP is worthy of being posted because it will provoke a discussion in which only the one or ones who have the Holy Spirit will prevail.

Luk 21:15, For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

Act 6:10, And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spake.

And I think that the people of these boards deserve to know what the Holy Spirit might want to say on this subject.

 

[Outsiderxxx]

I kinda agree the same thing....not as fact but my thinking...that the trinity is modalities of time. Christ is the time dependent one, appearing and time and space and MAKING time and space. I do not know what holy spirit is.

 

[Outsiderxxx]

I wrote a proof a God when I was 14 based on relativity...based on anthropomorphic theory of universe, that there must be creator...and what I imagined was similar to what you say. Worse Anselm, working back on properties of God in maybe 1300s worked backward to develop properties of universe.

 

[Outsiderxxx]

I wrote a proof a God when I was 14 based on relativity...based on anthropomorphic theory of universe, that there must be creator...and what I imagined was similar to what you say. Worse Anselm, working back on properties of God in maybe 1300s worked backward to develop properties of universe.

meant anthropologic theory

 

[Trav45]

By definition the trinity states there is one God made up of three persons that are coexisting, coequal and coeternal. John 1:1 is a has been used to explain the coeternal segment of this point of view. How ever if you look up the word word it means” discourse, expression of thought, mental reasoning. You could say “a plan”. So let’s replace the The Word With Plan. John 1:1 In the begging was the Plan, and the plan was with God, and the Plan was God… So as you can see, God had a plan in the beginning. That plan was Jesus. Go to the 14th vs and the Plan became flesh. So the coeternal statement is false. Jesus was in the mind of God at the beginning. Not coexisting with God but Jesus was Gods plan. In vs 3 It says all things were made by Him. That word “BY”means For ______ s sake. Or fore this reason.So let’s reread it. All things were made for the plans sake. And with out the plan was not anything made that was made. Of coarse I’m order to create Jesus (the man) God had to create everything for his plan to be born. Universe, stars sun, moon etc. because Jesus was flesh as much as God. Born of a woman. Jesus is God dwelling in flesh. The Holy Spirit is Christ in us the hope of glory. God is Spirit. But Jesus said if you have seen me you have seen the Father. Jesus is the very expression “Word” of God because The Father dwelt in him. God expressed himself through the flesh the man Christ Jesus.

 

[Trav45]

Here is how I define the Trinity.

The Father is a Spirit without flesh inhabiting eternity (John 4:23-24, Isaiah 57:15).

The Son is the same Spirit come in flesh (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4, 1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).

The Holy Ghost is the same Spirit as He is released from the physical body of the Son at His crucifixion (Luke 23:46).

(For God is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4, John 4:24).)

The Holy Ghost being distinct from the Father in that He has lived the human life of Christ and therefore has an experiential understanding of humanity.

The Son being distinct from the Father and the Holy Ghost in that He is come in flesh (while the Father and the Holy Ghost also dwell in the Person of the Son, Colossians 2:9).

I believe that the Son was begotten in the incarnation (Luke 1:35); which does not make it impossible that He is pre-existent.

For He ascended to fill all things (Ephesians 4:10); even to exist outside of time.

For in the Bible codes of Genesis 1 it can be determined that there are ten dimensions in reality. The risen and ascended Son fills all ten. So, He is far above the fourth dimension; which is time. Therefore Jesus exists outside of time.

And because He exists outside of time, His existence extends into eternity past.

Thus, the Father created the worlds through Jesus Christ; since Christ existed in the beginning;

While the beginning of His life (as the Son in flesh) happened at the juncture of Luke 1:35.

Some have tried to define this theology as not being the Trinity by giving it the label of "Coexistent Modalism".

I think that such is a slander on the doctrine.

I developed this doctrine as an emphasis on the Oneness of God in the Trinity, as a response to mormon theology; which has also infiltrated the minds of some who call themselves Trinitarians; that there are three beings who are God;

i.e. that the Father IS NOT the Son IS NOT the Holy Ghost.

I would declare that they are the same Spirit (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4) and therefore, also, in a specific sense, the same Person.

While they are also three distinct Persons according to the beginning statements of this post.

No sir. John 1:1 In the beginning,The Word (reasoning for, or plan) was with God, The Word (reasoning for l, or plan) Was God. And that was in the beginning not in eternity or before the beginning. Jesus was not coexisting he was in Gods mind.

 

[jb]

...my take...

That's the problem!

 

[Angela53510]

Such a heretical thread, I honestly don't know where to start! Basic Christian orthodoxy, being contradicted by people who make things up on their own whim! I do hope this thread improves. Perhaps I will come back in the day time,, and write what the Trinity is!

 

[ThyKingdomComeSoon]

good lick to you all, trinity is appli

Such a heretical thread, I honestly don't know where to start! Basic Christian orthodoxy, being contradicted by people who make things up on their own whim! I do hope this thread improves. Perhaps I will come back in the day time,, and write what the Trinity is!

Yes you should, looking forward to read your post.

Blessings.

 

[Snacker]

Narcissism

 

[HeIsHere]

I kinda agree the same thing....not as fact but my thinking...that the trinity is modalities of time. Christ is the time dependent one, appearing and time and space and MAKING time and space. I do not know what holy spirit is.

This is very interesting.
The holy spirit being the part of God present here on earth that inhabits people.
There are some problems with the language of three separate persons as coined by Tertullian that I think depart from what we find in scripture.
God is not 'persons"
Tertullian used the word "persona" as in masks/presentations and over time it became three separate persons which was not what he originally meant.

 

[bluto]

Here is how I define the Trinity.

The Father is a Spirit without flesh inhabiting eternity (John 4:23-24, Isaiah 57:15).

The Son is the same Spirit come in flesh (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4, 1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).

The Holy Ghost is the same Spirit as He is released from the physical body of the Son at His crucifixion (Luke 23:46).

(For God is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4, John 4:24).)

The Holy Ghost being distinct from the Father in that He has lived the human life of Christ and therefore has an experiential understanding of humanity.

The Son being distinct from the Father and the Holy Ghost in that He is come in flesh (while the Father and the Holy Ghost also dwell in the Person of the Son, Colossians 2:9).

I believe that the Son was begotten in the incarnation (Luke 1:35); which does not make it impossible that He is pre-existent.

For He ascended to fill all things (Ephesians 4:10); even to exist outside of time.

For in the Bible codes of Genesis 1 it can be determined that there are ten dimensions in reality. The risen and ascended Son fills all ten. So, He is far above the fourth dimension; which is time. Therefore Jesus exists outside of time.

And because He exists outside of time, His existence extends into eternity past.

Thus, the Father created the worlds through Jesus Christ; since Christ existed in the beginning;

While the beginning of His life (as the Son in flesh) happened at the juncture of Luke 1:35.

Some have tried to define this theology as not being the Trinity by giving it the label of "Coexistent Modalism".

I think that such is a slander on the doctrine.

I developed this doctrine as an emphasis on the Oneness of God in the Trinity, as a response to mormon theology; which has also infiltrated the minds of some who call themselves Trinitarians; that there are three beings who are God;

i.e. that the Father IS NOT the Son IS NOT the Holy Ghost.

I would declare that they are the same Spirit (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4) and therefore, also, in a specific sense, the same Person.

While they are also three distinct Persons according to the beginning statements of this post.

Here is how I define the Trinity.

The Father is a Spirit without flesh inhabiting eternity (John 4:23-24, Isaiah 57:15).

The Son is the same Spirit come in flesh (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4, 1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).

The Holy Ghost is the same Spirit as He is released from the physical body of the Son at His crucifixion (Luke 23:46).

(For God is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4, John 4:24).)

The Holy Ghost being distinct from the Father in that He has lived the human life of Christ and therefore has an experiential understanding of humanity.

The Son being distinct from the Father and the Holy Ghost in that He is come in flesh (while the Father and the Holy Ghost also dwell in the Person of the Son, Colossians 2:9).

I believe that the Son was begotten in the incarnation (Luke 1:35); which does not make it impossible that He is pre-existent.

For He ascended to fill all things (Ephesians 4:10); even to exist outside of time.

For in the Bible codes of Genesis 1 it can be determined that there are ten dimensions in reality. The risen and ascended Son fills all ten. So, He is far above the fourth dimension; which is time. Therefore Jesus exists outside of time.

And because He exists outside of time, His existence extends into eternity past.

Thus, the Father created the worlds through Jesus Christ; since Christ existed in the beginning;

While the beginning of His life (as the Son in flesh) happened at the juncture of Luke 1:35.

Some have tried to define this theology as not being the Trinity by giving it the label of "Coexistent Modalism".

I think that such is a slander on the doctrine.

I developed this doctrine as an emphasis on the Oneness of God in the Trinity, as a response to mormon theology; which has also infiltrated the minds of some who call themselves Trinitarians; that there are three beings who are God;

i.e. that the Father IS NOT the Son IS NOT the Holy Ghost.

I would declare that they are the same Spirit (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4) and therefore, also, in a specific sense, the same Person.

While they are also three distinct Persons according to the beginning statements of this post.

Let's see if I can clear up some of the confusion in this thread. The doctrine of the trinity is not an "assumption." It is the normative systematic theology of God in Christianity and is BASED on the fact that the Bible is explicit in telling us that there is, was and forever will be only ONE God AND the fact that the Bible identifies three (and only three) persons as God, how?

The Bible identifies God by

1) His names
2) His titles
3) His unique attributes
4) His unique actions
5) His worship

If you examine the Bible thoroughly you should be able to quickly discover that there are three and ONLY three "persons" who are identified as God by the COMBINATION of the literary means listed above. These persons are each variously...

1) Called by Names of God, (YHWH and its variant either directly or indirectly, usually both.

2) RECOGNIZED with the TITLES of God (Lord, king, savior, etc.)

3) ATTRIBUTED with the UNIQUE characteristics of God, (omnipresence, omnipotence, eternality, etc.)

4) CREDITED with the UNIQUE actions of God (creation, origin of God's word, salvation of men and/or creation, etc.)

5) WORSHIPPED and/or given honor, reverence and position due to God ALONE.

I am not saying that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all consistently, equally and in every mention identified as God in every place they are represented in the Bible by any combination of these 5. Nor am I saying that each person of the trinity is represented equally by ALL FIVE of these means of identifying God.

Starting at Genesis 1:1 you will notice as well that John 1:1 both say, "in beginning." The "Word of God thus was there before the creation of the space-mass and time of the universe. This means that John's beginning" even antecedes the Genesis "beginning." How so you ask? The Genesis 1:1 beginning is describing "WHAT HAPPENED" in the beginning. The John 1:1 beginning is describing or its main thought is "WHO EXISTED" in the beginning.

This alone eliminates the idea that John 1:1 is the plan of God. It does not fit. You will note that this says "the" (definite article) Word (singular) existed. It doesn't say God's word or words, it says "The Word existed. And "The Word existed how? The Word existed with the God. In John 1:1b The Word and the God are distinct there is a subject/object distinction between the two. And finally, "The Word was God." So whatever God is, The Word is, and vice versa. So if "The Word" is impersonal, God is impersonal. If "The Word" is just a thought or a plan, then "The God" is just a thought or a plan. But remember, "The Word" singular existed, and "The Word" is NOT "The God" in John 1:1b. So, where am I wrong?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[Magenta]

John 1:1 + 14a

 

[heartwashed]

Wow...a lot of naysayers...

1Co 2:14, But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1Co 16:9, For a great door and effectual is opened unto me, and there are many adversaries.

 

[heartwashed]

heartwashed:

...my take...

That's the problem!

Read John 7:16, 2 Timothy 3:16.

When I say that it is my doctrine, it means that I own it...as did Jesus and Paul with their own doctrine.

Since their doctrine was not unbiblical, although it was their doctrine,

it follows that my doctrine is not necessarily unbiblical, although I own it as being my doctrine.

scriptures:

Jhn 7:16, Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
2Ti 3:10, But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,

 

[heartwashed]

This is very interesting.
The holy spirit being the part of God present here on earth that inhabits people.
There are some problems with the language of three separate persons as coined by Tertullian that I think depart from what we find in scripture.
God is not 'persons"
Tertullian used the word "persona" as in masks/presentations and over time it became three separate persons which was not what he originally meant.

I believe that the creeds define the members of the Godhead as being distinct rather than separate.

 

[heartwashed]

Such a heretical thread, I honestly don't know where to start! Basic Christian orthodoxy, being contradicted by people who make things up on their own whim! I do hope this thread improves. Perhaps I will come back in the day time,, and write what the Trinity is!

What you should do, therefore, is go through the OP line-by-line and give the scripture that you think contradicts each line of the OP.

 

[heartwashed]

Please note that decrying a doctrine as heresy in no way denounces that doctrine as being unbiblical.

For it is written,

Act 24:14, But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

 

[heartwashed]

What you should do, therefore, is go through the OP line-by-line and give the scripture that you think contradicts each line of the OP.

You can also answer the scriptures that I have given to substantiate each point; if you can.