The tribulation

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So personally I do not think that the rapture will happen on september 23rd I am a pre wrath believer and also I believe that a great harvest is on the horizon but as for the tribulation the time of jacobs trouble I am curious when do you believe this will begin and why?

And also what will trigger it? what sign do we look for?
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Blain, you have covered a lot of topics.

Time of Jacob's trouble will not begin till the antichrist takes his seat in the temple of God.

As far as when the Tribulation would begin for me personally it will begin on the Feast of Trumpets this year. But most will not understand what happened. A declaration or Covenant for 7 years with Israel for Peace and Security would be time of the start of the Tribulation.

Watch what happens at the United Nations early next week for it will be a Covenant with many.

Most are looking for a dictator to come on the scene but that is false. Probably not going to show up in Israel till after the Seal Judgements. His time in Israel will be 2300 days out of 2520 days ( 7 years ). Daniel 8:13-14

Remember --Terrible wars are coming shortly after this Covenant is made for the second seal says: Peace shall be taken from the earth.
 
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So personally I do not think that the rapture will happen on september 23rd I am a pre wrath believer and also I believe that a great harvest is on the horizon but as for the tribulation the time of jacobs trouble I am curious when do you believe this will begin and why?

And also what will trigger it? what sign do we look for?

Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

chi xi stigma
khee xee stig'-ma
The 22nd, 14th and an obsolete letter (G4742 as a cross) of the Greek alphabet (intermediate between the 5th and 6th), used as numbers; denoting respectively 600, 60 and 6; 666 as a numeral: - six hundred threescore and six.

stigma
stig'-mah
From a primary word στίζω stizō (to “stick”, that is, prick); a mark incised or punched (for recognition of ownership), that is, (figuratively) scar of service: - mark.

The mark of the beast is something stuck under something and since it is given to a person it is stuck under their skin.

The antichrist's agenda is there is no personal God to help mankind but their technology can help them to deter crime, and have peace.

They can watch the people and know their location and if a crime happens they will know who was in the area, and how close they were to the crime scene.

This will cut out judges, lawyers, and the now known police force.

The people working together is the police force.

God is giving the world 7 years to have their way and cause all people that do not love the truth to follow the antichrist and take his mark which has to do with technology, and his solution to deter crime, and have peace.

The 7 years will begin when the antichrist negotiates peace in the Middle East resulting in a 7 years peace treaty which will impact the world for the nations divided themselves choosing sides.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

The new age that interprets the Bible and religions according to the occult and evolution, and people are going to evolve to be spiritual, and greater, and Jesus became an ascended master among others, and there is no personal God, but they honor the God of forces the power of nature, and the New Age Christ is the next world teacher.

The time will come that people will not want to hear the truth of the Bible but want to hear it according to the new age.

The New Age Christ will push the agenda of the new age which he will think to change times and laws

He will prepare the world for when he claims to be God.

The new age is the beginning of the end.

Since God is giving the world 7 years to go against the truth the saints will remain on earth because they represent the truth.

Dan 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
Dan 8:24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
Dan 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

The saints will not be gathered unto Christ until there is a falling away first which is the condition of the world in response to the truth which they stopped the preaching of the Gospel and the belief in a personal God in favor of the new age interpretation of religions saying it is not the truth, and they want peace.

And the man of sin claims to be God which happens in the middle of the 7 years period.

So the saints have to be on earth at least in the middle of the 7 years period.

Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The antichrist makes war against the saints for the last three one half years.

And when he has accomplished to scatter the power of the saints all things are finished.

Which then comes the end when Christ will deliver up the kingdom to God and then the heathen continue no more.

That is why it has to be at the end of the 7 years for that is when the heathen continue no more.

It can't be pre-7 years, or middle, because the heathen would continue.

Once the resurrection happens it is the end.

The wrath of God is not in the 7 years period for the first three and one half years salvation is still available to the world so the wrath would not be there.

And it was given unto the beast to make war against the saints and power was given to him over all nations, kindreds, and tongues, which God is allowing him to have his way so the wrath would not be there.

The wrath of God happens after the 7 years in which the saints are off the earth.

Continued in next post
 
Continued from above post

2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

The beast persecutes all people who oppose his system which can only be Christians for there is no in between for those that took the mark will be given strong delusion to believe a lie.

Which they are deceived by a devil which is a delusion they cannot snap out of so they do not have a choice.

All that can be left for the beast to persecute is Christians.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

There is only 2 resurrections, 1 of the saints, and one of the dead.

There cannot be left behind saints because when the resurrection happens it is the end.

Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

When the 7 years peace treaty happens it will pave the way for all Hebrews to go to Israel for the Gentile nations will cause it to happen.

Which God will turn Israel to the truth that Jesus is their Lord and Savior for the last three and one half years.

For God has the plan to restore the kingdom on earth to Israel.

Israel is protected from physical attack for the 7 years period.

The time of Jacob's trouble could be the last three and one half years when all Christians are persecuted Jew and Gentile which a Gentile is part of the commonwealth of Israel, and a Jew inward.

But I believe that the time of Jacob's trouble applies to the nation of Israel at the battle of Armageddon when the world attacks them and Jesus comes back with the saints and defeats the world and saves Israel.

I do not think the time of Jacob's trouble applies to the Christians being persecuted but to the nation of Israel.

Jer 30:7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.
Jer 30:11 For I am with thee, saith the LORD, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet will I not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.

Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

Eze 39:21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.
Eze 39:22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.
Eze 39:23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
Eze 39:24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.

Eze 39:25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
Eze 39:26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
Eze 39:27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
Eze 39:28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
Eze 39:29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

Zec 12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
Zec 12:2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.
Zec 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

Zec 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
Zec 14:5 and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
Zec 14:12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob.

The world will attack Israel which I believe it is the time of Jacob's trouble so it applies to the nation of Israel.

Which happens after the 7 years period.

Israel as a nation is protected from physical attack so the time of Jacob's trouble although Hebrew Christians will be persecuted.

After the 7 years period they are attacked and saved.
 
Imo. The tribulation is caused by man thinking he is God. The scriptures say these two things first.
Jesus siad beware of deception. Paul siad there's a great apostasy. These seem to be connected
The old testament shows that when a nation (Israel) turns away from God,
God in turn let's those nations be overtaken by there enemies. His unseen protection and guidance is removed.
The apostasy Paul points out is not only pertaining to the church but through out all the world where the Lord has been interwoven in thought and culture.
Scripture tells us all things are held together by Christ. And just like pulling a thread it starts to unravel the infrastructure of society its self. Economically. Morally, causing those things that are as we know temporal to fail.
I believe we are living in the time of this deception where good is called evil and evil good. Dividing those who are of the world and those who are of the spirit of God. This is only the beginning of things to come. Grace is being poured out even to the littlest of flames.
A revival is up to the people of God to stop being Luke warm to humble themselves and repent.
 
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

chi xi stigma
khee xee stig'-ma
The 22nd, 14th and an obsolete letter (G4742 as a cross) of the Greek alphabet (intermediate between the 5th and 6th), used as numbers; denoting respectively 600, 60 and 6; 666 as a numeral: - six hundred threescore and six.

stigma
stig'-mah
From a primary word στίζω stizō (to “stick”, that is, prick); a mark incised or punched (for recognition of ownership), that is, (figuratively) scar of service: - mark.

The mark of the beast is something stuck under something and since it is given to a person it is stuck under their skin.

The antichrist's agenda is there is no personal God to help mankind but their technology can help them to deter crime, and have peace.

They can watch the people and know their location and if a crime happens they will know who was in the area, and how close they were to the crime scene.

This will cut out judges, lawyers, and the now known police force.

The people working together is the police force.

God is giving the world 7 years to have their way and cause all people that do not love the truth to follow the antichrist and take his mark which has to do with technology, and his solution to deter crime, and have peace.

The 7 years will begin when the antichrist negotiates peace in the Middle East resulting in a 7 years peace treaty which will impact the world for the nations divided themselves choosing sides.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

The new age that interprets the Bible and religions according to the occult and evolution, and people are going to evolve to be spiritual, and greater, and Jesus became an ascended master among others, and there is no personal God, but they honor the God of forces the power of nature, and the New Age Christ is the next world teacher.

The time will come that people will not want to hear the truth of the Bible but want to hear it according to the new age.

The New Age Christ will push the agenda of the new age which he will think to change times and laws

He will prepare the world for when he claims to be God.

The new age is the beginning of the end.

Since God is giving the world 7 years to go against the truth the saints will remain on earth because they represent the truth.

Dan 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
Dan 8:24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
Dan 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

The saints will not be gathered unto Christ until there is a falling away first which is the condition of the world in response to the truth which they stopped the preaching of the Gospel and the belief in a personal God in favor of the new age interpretation of religions saying it is not the truth, and they want peace.

And the man of sin claims to be God which happens in the middle of the 7 years period.

So the saints have to be on earth at least in the middle of the 7 years period.

Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The antichrist makes war against the saints for the last three one half years.

And when he has accomplished to scatter the power of the saints all things are finished.

Which then comes the end when Christ will deliver up the kingdom to God and then the heathen continue no more.

That is why it has to be at the end of the 7 years for that is when the heathen continue no more.

It can't be pre-7 years, or middle, because the heathen would continue.

Once the resurrection happens it is the end.

The wrath of God is not in the 7 years period for the first three and one half years salvation is still available to the world so the wrath would not be there.

And it was given unto the beast to make war against the saints and power was given to him over all nations, kindreds, and tongues, which God is allowing him to have his way so the wrath would not be there.

The wrath of God happens after the 7 years in which the saints are off the earth.

Continued in next post

The white horse rider has a bow.
"Bow" symbolizes covenant.
( Noah's rainbow and nemrods bow)
The ac is introduced into power and covenant at his appearance on the white horse.
The mark technology is already here.
The mark comes right away at the start of the 7 yr trib .

It HAS TO COME RIGHT AWAY.
The mark is :
1) Control
2) worship of the AC
3) identifies and culls all refusing it (christians)
4) that signals the rapture.
 
I'm sorry, but I must inform you that the rapture doctrine is a false teaching started in 1830 by Margaret Macdonald, that will cause many to worship Satan when he comes claiming to be God as written in II Thes 2:3-4. According to God's word, Satan will be tossed out of heaven, Rev 12:7-9, and come to earth with his fallen angels and claim to be God. He will deceive the world into worshipping him as God by performing great signs and wonders in their sight, Rev 13:11-14. He will cause many to fall away from worshipping the true God by his deception. Paul sternly warned in II Thes 2:1-4 not to be deceived about the coming of our Lord Jesus and our gathering to him. Let no man deceive you by any means, (including their first letter) for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, (Satan).

Students of God's word know that Satan will come first, before Jesus, at the 6th trump, claiming to be God. Jesus doesn't return until the 7th trump, 3 1/2 days AFTER Satan slays God's two witnesses, Rev 11:3-13. If you want to be the first one that is taken in the field, know that it is Satan that comes first. The ones left in the field are the ones that know Satan is a fake and will stand and testify against him with the Holy Spirit speaking through them, Math 10:16-20. I pray that God opens your eyes to escape the coming hour of temptation simply by knowing the truth, that Satan is phony.
 
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I'm sorry, but I must inform you that the rapture doctrine is a false teaching started in 1830 by Margaret Macdonald, that will cause many to worship Satan when he comes claiming to be God as written in II Thes 2:3-4. According to God's word, Satan will be tossed out of heaven, Rev 12:7-9, and come to earth with his fallen angels and claim to be God. He will deceive the world into worshipping him as God by performing great signs and wonders in their sight, Rev 13:11-14. He will cause many to fall away from worshipping the true God by his deception. Paul sternly warned in II Thes 2:1-4 not to be deceived about the coming of our Lord Jesus and our gathering to him. Let no man deceive you by any means, (including their first letter) for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, (Satan).

Students of God's word know that Satan will come first, before Jesus, at the 6th trump, claiming to be God. Jesus doesn't return until the 7th trump, 3 1/2 days AFTER Satan slays God's two witnesses, Rev 11:3-13. If you want to be the first one that is taken in the field, know that it is Satan that comes first. The ones left in the field are the ones that know Satan is a fake and will stand and testify against him with the Holy Spirit speaking through them, Math 10:16-20. I pray that God opens your eyes to escape the coming hour of temptation simply by knowing the truth, that Satan is phony.
Lol
She was postrib.
She believed the church must go through the trib for "cleansing"

Postrib doctrine uses extra biblical rabbit trails to promote a false doctrine.
As you have demonstrated.

That is so lame and desperate tying us to Satan.

....but it always goes that way with postribbers.
...yet another reason to run from your man made doctrine.
 
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Lol
She was postrib.
She believed the church must go through the trib for "cleansing"

Postrib doctrine uses extra biblical rabbit trails to promote a false doctrine.
As you have demonstrated.

That is so lame and desperate tying us to Satan.

....but it always goes that way with postribbers.
...yet another reason to run from your man made doctrine.

It seems Paul was saying NOT to let that first letter of Thessalonians deceive you by any means,as to the day of the Lord is at hand and that the son of perdition must come first, before the Lord returns. It seems that many refuse to adhere to Paul's advice and want to fly away and go with that one that comes first. Have a nice flight friends.
 
It seems Paul was saying NOT to let that first letter of Thessalonians deceive you by any means,as to the day of the Lord is at hand and that the son of perdition must come first, before the Lord returns. It seems that many refuse to adhere to Paul's advice and want to fly away and go with that one that comes first. Have a nice flight friends.
------------------------------------------------
Key to understanding is what exactly is the Day of the Lord
 
It seems Paul was saying NOT to let that first letter of Thessalonians deceive you by any means,as to the day of the Lord is at hand and that the son of perdition must come first, before the Lord returns. It seems that many refuse to adhere to Paul's advice and want to fly away and go with that one that comes first. Have a nice flight friends.
So to you the gathering of the bride is so loathful, just the thought of it invokes mocking?
 
So to you the gathering of the bride is so loathful, just the thought of it invokes mocking?
Not mocking, just repeating what it written hoping to open the eyes of many that believe in a false teaching. Have you never read Ezk 13:18-23 where God says he is AGAINST those that hunt souls to make them fly? Yet the churches continue to teach this exact thing not heeding God's warning. Not mocking, just warning not to go with the first one that comes claiming to be God. And by the way, the gathering of the bride is at the 7th trump, not the 6th, Rev 19.
 
------------------------------------------------
Key to understanding is what exactly is the Day of the Lord
My understanding is that the "Day of the Lord" begins at the 7th trump when Christ returns to earth to set up his millennium kingdom and has his priests teach the people right from wrong, Ezk 44:15-16, 44:23.
 
My understanding is that the "Day of the Lord" begins at the 7th trump when Christ returns to earth to set up his millennium kingdom and has his priests teach the people right from wrong, Ezk 44:15-16, 44:23.
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You are getting close to the truth

You are right in saying the 7th Trump or last Trump. This trump carrys over to the Bowl Judgements. Earth is reaped in Rev 14:14 with the Lord in the cloud just as promised he would come

I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one like a son of man[b] with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand. 15 Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, “Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” 16 So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested.

Daniel 7:13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man,[a] coming with the clouds of heaven.

Acts 1:7 This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”
 
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You are getting close to the truth

You are right in saying the 7th Trump or last Trump. This trump carrys over to the Bowl Judgements. Earth is reaped in Rev 14:14 with the Lord in the cloud just as promised he would come

I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one like a son of man[b] with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand. 15 Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, “Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” 16 So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested.

Daniel 7:13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man,[a] coming with the clouds of heaven.

Acts 1:7 This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”
"Will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven." He is coming back to earth to reign. He will touch down on the Mt. of Olives from whence he departed. There is no need for anyone to rapture away for the Lord is returning here to set up his kingdom.
 
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You are getting close to the truth

You are right in saying the 7th Trump or last Trump. This trump carrys over to the Bowl Judgements. Earth is reaped in Rev 14:14 with the Lord in the cloud just as promised he would come

I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one like a son of man[b] with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand. 15 Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, “Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” 16 So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested.

Daniel 7:13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man,[a] coming with the clouds of heaven.

Acts 1:7 This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”
Acts one has a setting opposite of your doctrine.
You placed acts 1 setting in the middle of the trib.
Not accurate at all.
Only pretrib rapture fits acts 1 "like manner"
 
Not mocking, just repeating what it written hoping to open the eyes of many that believe in a false teaching. Have you never read Ezk 13:18-23 where God says he is AGAINST those that hunt souls to make them fly? Yet the churches continue to teach this exact thing not heeding God's warning. Not mocking, just warning not to go with the first one that comes claiming to be God. And by the way, the gathering of the bride is at the 7th trump, not the 6th, Rev 19.
The Jewish rapture of rev 14 is people rising in the air
The 2 witnesses rise into the air.
Jesus rose into the air.
Elijah rose into the air.
Enoch rose into the air.
Paul rose into the air....as did John.
The church meets the dead in christ in the air.

To put all that down is plain crazy.
 
The Jewish rapture of rev 14 is people rising in the air
The 2 witnesses rise into the air.
Jesus rose into the air.
Elijah rose into the air.
Enoch rose into the air.
Paul rose into the air....as did John.
The church meets the dead in christ in the air.

To put all that down is plain crazy.
I agree that the bible tells us that Jesus and Elijah ascended through the air, but of Enoch, we are just told:

“And Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him.” (Ge 5:24 NKJV)

The bible doesn't even mention Paul's death.
 
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