The tribulation

[Webers.Home]

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● Rev 14:6-7 . . And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having
the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to
every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, announcing with a loud
voice: Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is
come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the
fountains of waters.

The everlasting gospel is a bounce from the very first chapter of Genesis;
and reiterated at Ps 19:1-4 and Rom 1:19-20. It's very elementary; pretty
much all it says is:

1) There's a supreme being.

2) People should not take Him lightly.

3) He deserves to be honored and respected.

4) There's a reckoning looming on the horizon.

5) The cosmos-- all of its forms of life, matter, and energy --is the product
of intelligent design.
_

 

[Rondonmon]

No one has given a biblical argument. You've all just spewed your beliefs. How do you make the tribulation 7 years? How do you take a week from Daniel and shoot it into the future without it saying? Many people believe the week was the temple destroyed. It happened after the apostle warned of it, writing before the temple was destroyed. There's no mention of years which would be easy, they had a calendar.

Because God saw Israel as Dead Men's Bones for nigh 2000 years, from the Cross and 70 AD to 1948.

The Prophecy was THREE FOLD for a reason, we were given three markers.

1.) The Wall would be completed in 49 years or in 7 x 7
2.) Jesus would die after 62 Weeks, so God set this as a separate Prophecy from The Wall.
3.) The Final Week (7 years)n starts of with an Agreement (Covenant simply means Agreement) between Israel and the prince to come of the Europeans (E.U.) thus, here is what goes down, Israel, after the Gog and Magog fiasco (Russia, Turkey & Iran) join the European Union. They don't just sign on with a man who is a FAKE Messiah (LOL.......that thought process never ceases to amuse me) like many think.

So, God saw Israel as DEAD, thus the Diaspora happened, now go read Ezekiel 37, God revives those Dead Men's Bones at the very end. Zech. 13:8-9 says 1/3 of Israel will repent, that never happened in history, if it had then God would have sent Jesus back in 70 AD to set up the Kingdom Age. The THREE PROPHESIES are separate for a reason !!!

As per there being 7 years of Tribulation, of course there is 7 years, and there is 2000 years of Church Age tribulation before that, Jesus said so.

John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

So, ALL TIME on earth is tribulation for us, the world hates us as it hated Jesus !!

So, when you see those in Rev. 7:9-17, please understand they came out of GREAT TRIBULATION, not the GREATESR EVER TROUBLES, those are the Pre Trib Raptured Church, no one, I repeat NO ONE will be raptured after the 70th week starts, that is why Jesus says to the 5 Virgins who miss the wedding call, there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, once you miss the Pre Trib Rapture, even if you come to Christ, you are in for a very troublesome ride !! Either you will dodge God's Wrath (hard to do in the two Americas which will completely burn up) and then have to deal with the Anti-Christ's brutish nature via dying, so either way, you are in fir big trouble if you miss the Rapture.

There will be 3.5 years of relative peace, then the E.U. will attack (see Dan. 11:40-43) Israel and the whole Mediterranean Sea Region, after Apophis wipes out the USA, and after the Gog & Magog war wipes out the Armies of Russia, Iran and Turkey. But........how does he conquer Israel who has Nukes? That will be a part of the AGREEMENT, in order to join the E.U. (which Israel has wanted to do for a while now) Israel will have to give up her nukes. People who think this is hyper bull....need to look on Wikipedia, look at the European Neighborhood Policy, it is an Agreement between the E.U., Israel and every nation on the Mediterranean Sea Coast that is nit already in the E.U. (of course) and the stated goal is to draw those nation more in line with E.U. Policies and to see if they are ripe to become E.U. Member States in the future (I joke not). They have had 7 year agreements that ran from 2006-2013 and from 2014-2020.

This is what will go down, Israel will join the E.U. that sets off ALL OF THE EVENTS !! God gets angry when they give His land away.

 

[Rondonmon]

None of them have been accomplished. That is all one package and it is all for the future.

Correct, I will leave this here for people to CHAW ON, an old blog of mine.

Daniel’s 70 Weeks Decree against Israel

In Daniel 9:24, Daniel prophesied that these six things must come to pass before this judgment against Israel would be fulfilled. Some think Jesus fulfilled all of these, most seem to think, as I do, that these things have not come to pass, and when they do that will be the end of the age.

1. Finish the transgression (Israel must finish their transgressions against God or Repent as a Nation)
2. Make and end of sins (Israel must stop all WILFULL SINS against God)
3. To make reconciliation for iniquity (Israel must Atone by accepting Jesus as their Messiah)
4. Bring in everlasting righteousness (Jesus will only bring thus in at the Kingdom Age)
5. To seal up vision and prophecy (ALL Prophecy has to be fulfilled, thus Jesus must be reigning)
6. Anoint the most Holy (This means Jesus will be anointed as the King of kings and Lord of lords)

1. The Hebrew word used for transgression denotes revolt or rebellion. The Jewish people chose to reject God, many chose to stay in Babylon once they were freed. It also denotes their rejection of Jesus Christ. Jesus prophesied in Matthew 23:39 that the Jewish people would not see him again until they accepted him. Matt. 23:39 "For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord". So in order for Jesus to return, Israel has to repent of their rejection of God and Jesus, and Israel will open their hearts to the Messiah, as Paul, Isaiah and Zechariah (Zechariah 12:10/13:8-9) prophesied, among others.

2. This is fairly straightforward, "Willful Sins" can only end when the millennial reign starts, so by the time this 70 week decree is over, Jesus will have returned to set up his kingdom, ushering in the millennial kingdom where there will be no Willful Sins anymore. Since the tribulation week is the last week of the 70 weeks decree, that makes perfect sense, as soon as the tribulation period ends, or the “time of Jacob’s trouble”, then “willful sins will end”.

3. Israel has to be reconciled unto God before the 70 weeks have been fulfilled. There is no doubt that Jesus died for all of our sins, thus the atonement for sins has been made, but there is a conditional requirement for all of us to receive that atonement, we must accept Jesus as our Savior. When Israel accepts the Messiah Jesus, as their Messiah and Savior, then the atonement for sins will have been completed, and Israel will have been reconciled unto God, thereby ushering in the millennial kingdom.

4. This 70 week decree has to bring in everlasting righteousness, and we know this can not happen until Jesus sets up his Kingdom. This world has always had sin, and always will until Jesus is Lord of lords and King of kings. By the time Daniels prophecy ends, it must usher in everlasting righteousness.

5. Seal up vision and prophecy, the word used here denotes to close up, meaning that before this 70th week can come to an end, all prophecy must be fulfilled or closed up. This will only happen when Israel accepts Jesus as their Messiah and he lands on Mt. Zion to rule over this wicked world with a rod of iron.

6. The very last goal that this 70 week prophecy has to usher in is the anointing of the most holy. The bible says most holy, many try to add holy place, but whether it is the temple being anointed, or Jesus Christ as Lord of lord and Kings of kings as I suspect, we know this must happen before the 70 weeks decree is fulfilled. And Jesus must return and rule on earth.

All six of these things have to happen before this prophecy is fulfilled. These are six spiritual goals that have to come to pass or this prophecy will not be finished or sealed up. We know these things have not come to pass yet, but we also know they are very near to happening, therefore watch, for Israel is now a nation again, and the world is against her, soon she will need her Messiah s help, then she will call upon him, and he will save her from this wicked world.

 

[Rondonmon]

Rev 16:12 . . And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river
Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of
the east might be prepared.

That is curious because in modern warfare; rivers, and even oceans, present
no obstacle to military aircraft. But where are the airplanes in Revelation;
and where are all the mechanized conveyances? Well; there are none, and in
point of fact, war in Revelation is portrayed as fought on horseback and
armies move on foot. I have an uneasy feeling that the way of life with
which us modern folks are accustomed is coming to an end.
_

That is because the Euphrates River is used an Euphemism in this instance. End Tine Armies (as in NOW) do not need Rivers to dry up.........BUT.........in order for God to have an End Time Battle (Armageddon) how is He going to get them to come out of hiding in caves etc. etc. as it is said men do, in order to go to this battle? Well, the 6th Vial tells us, The Anti-Christ, Dragon and False Prophet LIE unto the men and Kings of the WHOLE WORLD, in order to get them to go to war at Armageddon.

They have seen these Plagues for nigh 3 1/2 years by now, the Two-witnesses get killed at the end of the 2nd Woe, but they have prayed down the 3rd Woe which emits from the 7th Trump, the 3rd Woe is simply the 7 Vials. But the plagues keep on going, we get Vials 1-5, then, IMHO, God STALLS His Plagues in order to allow the THREE LIARS to gather up their coward men, that is the 6th Vial, God STOPS THE PLAGUES (drying up the Euphrates is just SYMBOLIC), and these cowards hiding in caves all come out, then the lying liars are lie, SEE, SEE, SEE what those two Jewish men accomplished? Lets never allow this again, if we go kill all of the Jews "THEIR GOD" will have no vessel to work through anymore. So, off they go, and then Jesus shows up.

Think...........NO RIVER needs to dry up in order for modern armies and even regular men to go across, a simple plane takes us across a river. So, this is just symbolism, God is saying He will TAKE AWAY their obstacles (His plagues) and thus make they paths straight.

People do not get this, but Revelation is chock full of symbolism.

 

[Webers.Home]

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● Rev 14:9-12 . . A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: If
anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the
forehead or on the hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which
has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath.

. . . He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy
angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment rises forever and
ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his
image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name.

The holy city depicted at Rev 21:9-27 will never experience nightfall nor
darkness. On the basis of that, some have proposed that Rev 14:9-12 is
entirely symbolic because it says that the folks assigned to the burning
sulfur will be given no rest day or night in a place where supposedly there
will be no night.

However "in the presence of" doesn't necessarily mean the site of the
burning sulfur is located inside the city's walls, mostly because Rev 21:27
says: "Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is
shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's
book of life." And also Rev 22:14-15 which says: "Blessed are those who
wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go
through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice
magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone
who loves and practices falsehood."

Though there will be neither day nor night inside the city that doesn't
preclude the possibility that there will be day and night outside. At an rate;
I think we have to expect there will be no breaks in the torment but that it
will be perpetual 24/7/365 with neither intermission, nor interruption, nor
time off for good behavior. That will be an awful scene; yet quite possibly
a rather ghastly tourist attraction. (Isa 66:23-24)

● Rev 14:12 . .This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who
obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.

People will find themselves caught in a sort of Catch 22, so to speak. If they
follow the Beast, they'll be safe from execution but end up in the sulfur. If
they follow God and His son Jesus, they'll be safe from the sulfur but end up
executed.

● Rev 14:13 . . .Then I heard a voice from heaven say: "Write: Blessed are
the dead who die in the Lord from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, they will rest
from their labor, for their deeds will follow them."

One of the deeds sure to follow those folks is their decision to remain true to
God and His son Jesus instead of following the Beast. (cf. Matt 10:22)
_

 

[GaryA]

@Nehemiah6 - yes or no - Will [even a single] sin be committed during the Millennium?

(I am guessing that you put me on ignore...???)

 

[Webers.Home]

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● Rev 16:3 . .The second angel poured out his bowl on the sea, and it turned
into blood like that of a dead man, and every living thing in the sea died.

Fresh blood is tolerable as far as odor goes, whereas the blood of a dead
man is in a state of putrefaction; and then adding to that the carcasses and
the stench of dead fish and everything else will make quite a soup to behold.

The Mediterranean is notable in the Bible; but whether that's the sea spoken
of here is uncertain. However, in Gen 1:10 "sea" pertains to the entirety of
Earth's oceans.

A rather curious sea is located at 1Kings 7:23-26 which suggests that any
accumulation of water, whether in an ocean or on land, can be called a sea,
e.g. ponds and lakes.

● Rev 16:4 . .The third angel poured out his bowl on the rivers and springs of
water, and they became blood.

The two passages tell of water pollution on a scale quite a bit more severe
than that of Egypt because it's global rather than limited to one specific
country. Egypt's was pretty bad because there was no clean water anywhere
for either cooking, drinking, laundry, hygiene, or sanitation. (Ex 7:19-20)
_

 

[Yahshua]

as an aside; babies laughing are such a joy to watch

 

[GaryA]

Daniel’s 70 Weeks Decree against Israel

In Daniel 9:24, Daniel prophesied that these six things must come to pass before this judgment against Israel would be fulfilled.

"before this judgment against Israel would be fulfilled"

No - the 70 weeks (as a complete collective whole) is the 'judgment' (in a certain sense):

Daniel 9:

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, ...

All of the seventy weeks - each-and-every week of the complete collective whole - not "and the 70th week will be a judgment"...

2. This is fairly straightforward, "Willful Sins" can only end when the millennial reign starts, ..., ushering in the millennial kingdom where there will be no Willful Sins anymore.

If someone deliberately tells a lie, steals, or kills - during the millennial reign of Christ - is it a 'willful sin'?

 

[GaryA]

None of them have been accomplished. That is all one package and it is all for the future.

All of them have been accomplished - by Christ Himself during His ministry, death, burial, and resurrection.

 

[GaryA]

All of them have been accomplished - by Christ Himself during His ministry, death, burial, and resurrection.

Or, rather:

All of them have been accomplished - during the ministry, death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.

(more accurate)

 

[GaryA]

1.) The Wall would be completed in 49 years or in 7 x 7
2.) Jesus would die after 62 Weeks, so God set this as a separate Prophecy from The Wall.
3.) The Final Week (7 years)n starts of with an Agreement (Covenant simply means Agreement) between Israel and the prince to come of the Europeans (E.U.) thus, here is what goes down, Israel, after the Gog and Magog fiasco (Russia, Turkey & Iran) join the European Union. They don't just sign on with a man who is a FAKE Messiah (LOL.......that thought process never ceases to amuse me) like many think.

The wall of the city was built in 52 days. It was built about 12 years - not 49 years - from the beginning of the 70 weeks or 490 years.

The counting to the death of Jesus does not start at the end of the building of the Wall - but rather - the end of the rebuilding of the City.

Your counting is all wrong.

There is no 'Agreement'/'Covenant' between Israel and anyone in Daniel 9:24-27.

Please see:

http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Time_Line.html
http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Seventy_Weeks.html

 

[Rondonmon]

The wall of the city was built in 52 days. It was built about 12 years - not 49 years - from the beginning of the 70 weeks or 490 years.

The counting to the death of Jesus does not start at the end of the building of the Wall - but rather - the end of the rebuilding of the City.

Your counting is all wrong.

There is no 'Agreement'/'Covenant' between Israel and anyone in Daniel 9:24-27.

Please see:

I have been called unto Prophecy for 38 years my friend, I understand all this, you do not seem to quite grasp it, what can I say? It is what it is.

 

[GaryA]

I have been called unto Prophecy for 38 years my friend, I understand all this, you do not seem to quite grasp it, what can I say? It is what it is.

I have been studying Bible prophecy longer than that. Some on here would say they have been studying it longer than I have. And, that is just fine-and-dandy - it does not hurt my feelings a bit. But, contrary to what a lot of people seem to think, length of time does not automatically mean someone has a better understanding. Perhaps it should be that way - but, in reality, is often not the case. What matters the most is - that whatever time has been spent - it has been beneficial to them (i.e. - they have obtained a correct understanding).

There are many folks that go their entire life in error with regard to prophetic understanding.

Say all you want - we all will have our Judgment Day - "every idle word" - remember?

I do not recommend letting your pride take over and run away with you...

 

[GaryA]

@Nehemiah6 - yes or no - Will [even a single] sin be committed during the Millennium?

If someone deliberately tells a lie, steals, or kills - during the millennial reign of Christ - is it a 'willful sin'?

Why are people [seemingly] "afraid" to answer this question?

Is it because - if they answer it (with the correct answer 'yes') - it means that they will have to admit that the '70th week' that is supposed to somehow accomplish every item in the list of things in Daniel 9:24 - will not have done so at/by the end of the 'tribulation' - which is said by some to be what the '70th week' represents?

 

[Mem]

Those counted among those of the first resurrection includes those who are alive and changed and caught up together with them raised from the dead, will never die again since the second death has no power over them. They will reign with Christ, who's coming and subsequent shout initiates the resurrection, for a millennium. And this is "after the tribulation..."

It will be a comparatively peaceful reign considering the Lord brings His wrath down on the wicked and this is the event that "quiets" things down. And that the wicked are given an allowance to repent during the administration of His wrath (though many still do not) and death is not yet done away with (i.e., the babe will die a hundred years old and death is not thrown into the lake until after the millennial reign), apparently some of those (who hadn't been raised nor changed in the first resurrection) will be destroyed by His wrath initially.

So, "the rest of the death will not be raised until the thousand years are complete," may imply that there some of those "perishable" may remain also and enjoy Adamic lifespans through benefit of the improved conditions of His governance. However, "the babe that dies a hundred years old will be considered accused," during this era, and I'd say likely will also have to suffer the second death also, especially considering he/she "fell" during the Lord explicit reign...

I like to keep my posts short and this one has become a bit lengthy, so I'll end my thoughts about it here, but I believe this to be a fairly solid understanding of the tribulation, which many have suffered (and been suffering) up to now but wrath is still to come and will come with the Lord's return (when He will rule with a rod of iron).

 

[iamsoandso]

Those counted among those of the first resurrection includes those who are alive and changed and caught up together with them raised from the dead, will never die again since the second death has no power over them. They will reign with Christ, who's coming and subsequent shout initiates the resurrection, for a millennium. And this is "after the tribulation..."

It will be a comparatively peaceful reign considering the Lord brings His wrath down on the wicked and this is the event that "quiets" things down. And that the wicked are given an allowance to repent during the administration of His wrath (though many still do not) and death is not yet done away with (i.e., the babe will die a hundred years old and death is not thrown into the lake until after the millennial reign), apparently some of those (who hadn't been raised nor changed in the first resurrection) will be destroyed by His wrath initially.

So, "the rest of the death will not be raised until the thousand years are complete," may imply that there some of those "perishable" may remain also and enjoy Adamic lifespans through benefit of the improved conditions of His governance. However, "the babe that dies a hundred years old will be considered accused," during this era, and I'd say likely will also have to suffer the second death also, especially considering he/she "fell" during the Lord explicit reign...

I like to keep my posts short and this one has become a bit lengthy, so I'll end my thoughts about it here, but I believe this to be a fairly solid understanding of the tribulation, which many have suffered (and been suffering) up to now but wrath is still to come and will come with the Lord's return (when He will rule with a rod of iron).

That's not who are included in Revelation 20:4 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation 20&version=KJV

 

[Mem]

That's not who are included in Revelation 20:4 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation 20&version=KJV

I meant to qualify "the wicked" with "some" and thought I went back and corrected it, but I see the edit missing now, so it must I must've deleted it somehow. But I'm also not sure if this is what you are addressing with your declaration?

 

[iamsoandso]

I meant to qualify "the wicked" with "some" and thought I went back and corrected it, but I see the edit missing now, so it must I must've deleted it somehow. But I'm also not sure if this is what you are addressing with your declaration?

Revelation 20:4 tells us exactly who will be part of the first resurrection,,, those beheaded(killed) for their witness of Jesus/God and those who didn't worship the image,receive the mark ect.(the first resurrection takes place according to Scripture after the image,mark ect.)....

 

[Mem]

Revelation 20:4 tells us exactly who will be part of the first resurrection,,, those beheaded(killed) for their witness of Jesus/God and those who didn't worship the image,receive the mark ect.(the first resurrection takes place according to Scripture after the image,mark ect.)....

Aye, the image/mark happens concurrently with the tribulation. However, there is contention about exactly what the image/mark actually is and when it is initiated as much as the actual duration of the tribulation. The only given is that it is of the beast and that the tribulation is of those that refuse it.