The tribulation

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"Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things
take place."

Humanity's first generation began with Adam and continued up until the
Flood.

Humanity's second generation began after the Flood and will continue up
until Jesus' return to set up his millennial kingdom.

Humanity's third generation begins with Jesus' return and will continue up
until the fiery obliteration of the entire universe.

Yet a fourth generation begins with construction of a brand new cosmos.

● Matt 19:27-29 . . Jesus said to them: Truly I say to you, that you who
have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of Man will sit on his
glorious throne, you also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve
tribes of Israel.
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● Rev 13:7-8 . . And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and
to overcome them; and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues,
and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose
names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the
foundation of the world.

Because we're talking about all kindreds, and tongues, and nations; then I
think we may safely assume that the "saints" in this case are possibly
anyone and everybody that can be counted as loyal to God; both Jew and
Gentile. This may or may not refer to armed conflict but for sure it's related
to oppression; and it's going to be very effective if we reckon these saints to
be the innumerable crowd depicted at Rev 7:9-17.

The Beast's management practices are extreme, but not all that unusual.
Take for example modern communist China. It's very dangerous to be
openly religious in that country, and/or hold values that differ with the
regime's, where they harvest the organs of Falun Gong adherents without
their consent. The situation in North Korea is little better where God is
second place to Kim Jong-Un.

The Lamb slain "from the foundation of the world" reveals that Jesus wasn't
a stand-by paramedic sent to an unexpected train wreck, rather; he was
designated, and scheduled, to die on a cross for the sins of the world prior to
God creating even a single atom for the current cosmos. (cf. 1Pet 1:18-21)
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[Bob-Carabbio]

It's absolutely essential to get it right.

Actually, since it's all nothing but "Theology" there's nothing "Essential" about it.

When the Trumpet sounds, we'll go. If we go through a "tribulation' then maybe we'll be killed, and go before the Trumpet. since "Eschatology" is just another word for "rank speculation" and the CHURCH will know what to do when it's time to do it. he Holy Spirit IS guiding us, after all.

 

[Webers.Home]

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● Rev 13:9 . . He who has an ear, let him hear.

This particular ear refers to paying serious attention rather than merely
auditory perception. For example:

● Deut 29:2-5 . . Moses summoned all the Israelites and said to them:

. . .Your eyes have seen all that The Lord did in Egypt to Pharaoh, to all his
officials and to all his land. With your own eyes you saw those great trials,
those miraculous signs and great wonders. But to this day The Lord has not
given you a mind that understands or eyes that see or ears that hear.

In other words: Moses' people were attentive to God's providence; and at
times even took it for granted, but were indifferent to His counseling--
oftentimes His words went in one ear and right out the other, so to speak.
Samuel was just the opposite.

● 1Sam 3:20 . . And Samuel grew, and The Lord was with him, and did let
none of His words fall to the ground.

During the awful circumstances depicted and described in the book of
Revelation, quite a few folks are going to wake up and begin looking to the
Bible for answers. I'm guessing it will be difficult, and dangerous, trying to
locate copies as I suspect the Beast will initiate something similar to Mao
Zedong's cultural revolution and/or Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451 to
eradicate competing ideologies.

Nevertheless; just as certain agencies at the Federal level have failed to
totally suppress so-called misinformation relative to the Covid thingy, so the
Beast will fail to prevent every last ear from hearing.
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[Blade]

" I say we've seen all the tribulation we're gonna see. Don't be afraid. ". No we have not even come close to whats about to happen. To know the Church has all power all authority over the enemy. To know 'For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now holdeth back will hold him back, until he is taken out of the way. " this is right now. He has not been taken out of the way and since Christ came rose AMEN the enemy can never has never came out in open for he can't since we are still here.

Rev will happen don't have to like it agree with it but God said it and it will happen. Not sure how many talking live in say Iran or parts of Africa, Iraq, China. In parts of this world many believers hundreds of thousand killed every year. So to simply say there is no 7y trib there is no gap or Israel does not still owe God.. is not proof. One has to say "I can be wrong here". And I just said it.

One has to be blind to not see the word of GOD unfold before our eyes. Just like with Noah, Lot who had to be gone "as long as you are here I can do nothing". Whats coming there is no place to hide.. so your gone or left behind because GOD would not can not go against your will. Israel still rejects Yeshua the messiah. They are not following God and they are blooming yet day by day all of the world is turning against them. This has always been about getting Gods word to the world and always about Israel. So what is written is going to happen Muslims are looking for the messiah so is Israel and the one coming is not the messiah but the AntiChrist.

 

[Magenta]

So Jesus said all these things would happen before the generation He was speaking to passed away.....and it did.
This judgment was a specific judgment against a very specific people, the covenant breaking Jews that told God
to His face "We have no king but Caesar, your blood be on us and on our children". Then 40 years later the temple
was destroyed brick off of brick and the end of that age came upon them EXACTLY as Jesus said it would.

Now we know this happen and I think that most of us would agree that scripture is closed, that Jesus
fulfilled everything we need for salvation and God has given us His word. So like Paul said "Even if we
come to you with something different than what you've been given then let us be dammed to hell".

Always lovely to see you, Jim. I hope you are well .

 

[Webers.Home]

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● Rev 13:9-10 . . If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if
anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the
perseverance and the faith of the saints.

I think that just might be a reiteration of the perseverance and the faith of
Job; where it's said:

"In all this, Job did not sin by charging God with wrongdoing." (Job 1:22)

"Though He slay me, yet will I trust in Him" (Job 13:15

That of Habakkuk:

"Although the fig tree shall not blossom, neither shall fruit be in the vines;
the labor of the olive shall fail, and the fields shall yield no meat; the flock
shall be cut off from the fold, and there shall be no herd in the stalls: Yet I
will rejoice in The Lord, I will joy in the God of my salvation." (Hab 3:17-18)

And that of the apostle Paul:

"Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or
persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written: For
your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be
slaughtered." (Rom 8:35-36)

It's generally agreed among conservative Christians that no saved person
will enter the Tribulation; but there will be a large number of lost souls
saved out of it; though at great cost to their welfare. They mustn't allow
their misfortunes during that era to persuade them that they've bought into
a fraud.

* Believers are not a protected species; nor are they insulated from the
slings and arrows of outrageous fortune.

When there's a pandemic, they get sick the same as everybody else. When
there's war, they get caught up in it. When there are economic catastrophes
like the Great Depression and the housing bubble of 2008, they lose their
jobs and sometimes their nest eggs. When there are shortages of goods and
services, they have to make do with what there is the same as everybody
else. When the weather becomes disagreeable with tornadoes, hurricanes,
and flooding, they lose their homes right along with non believers. Wild fires
in California burn the homes of believers the same as everybody else's
homes. Believers get cancer, they get in car wrecks, they get taken by
crime, nature drops tree limbs on them, and the postman delivers their mail
to the wrong address, etc. etc. etc.

"I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this
world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world."
(John 16:33)
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[GaryA]

The tribulation is not 7 years.

Agree.

I went to Bible college where the tribulation is taught as Daniel's last week or 7 but I could never figure out how the last week was shot into the future.

It was "imagined" into existence to help "prop up" the 'pre-trib' view. It ultimately comes from a severe misinterpretation of Daniel 9:24-27.

All of Daniel's weeks are accomplished.

Agree.

Revelations is the prophecy of all great suffering in the future.

Agree - from the perspective of the point in time when it was written; however, "all great suffering in the future" is/has not concluded yet.

There's no biblical proof the tribulation is 7 years.

Agree.

It's not the big giant people make it out to be.

Agree - in the sense that people should understand:

~ that a great deal of it is already past (albeit, the worst is yet to come)

~ that the 'extent' and 'level' of tribulation is not 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times worse than anything mankind has experienced thus far. Some people seem to view the 'Great Tribulation' as if all of the horrors that mankind has experienced thus far "don't count" when considering [even] the 'least' [little] thing that might be included in the 'Great Tribulation'.

(The extreme exaggeration in the number is to make a point.)

I say we've seen all the tribulation we're gonna see.

Some of it is past; some of it is yet to come.

Don't be afraid.

Christians certainly should not be afraid in the totally-terrified loose-your-mind sense - they should trust in the Lord and prepare for what is coming...

 

[GaryA]

~ that the 'extent' and 'level' of tribulation is not 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times worse than anything mankind has experienced thus far. Some people seem to view the 'Great Tribulation' as if all of the horrors that mankind has experienced thus far "don't count" when considering [even] the 'least' [little] thing that might be included in the 'Great Tribulation'.

Some people seem to view the 'Great Tribulation' as being "wall-to-wall start-to-finish" any-and-all of what you read in Revelation. However, this is not quite exactly how the Bible - in all of its related contexts - "paints the picture" of what the "full view" of it really is.

And, if you study this topic in the Bible - in all of its related contexts - you should discover that:

~ the Bible tells us very plainly - in relative 'event' terms - when the 'great tribulation' (*) begins

~ the Bible tells us very plainly - in relative 'event' terms - when the 'great tribulation' (*) ends

~ a lot of what is written in Revelation - that people think is part of the 'great tribulation' (*) - is not

If you want to understand what is-and-is-not part of the 'great tribulation' (*) - study the topic in 'event' terms:

~ "what happens before what"
~ "what happens after what"
~ "what happens at the same time as what"

Apply this/these criteria - in relative 'event' terms - to the various 'events' in question.

You will be amazed at how simple this really is...

(*) - what Jesus said and was referring to in Matthew 24:21

 

[GaryA]

That may be what you believe ….but that is not going to alter Biblical truths.

The tribulation has not and will not start until this administration of grace that we live in today, ceases.

And it will cease when Christ comes back (in the air) to gather those in Christ… And then begins the period of Revelation.

However, what he said has more biblical truth in it than what you said.

 

[GaryA]

No. The 70th week is still in the future. If all of Daniel's 70 weeks had been fulfilled, this earth would have been totally cleansed of all sin and evil, and everlasting righteousness would have already been established (v 24). The very fact that sin and evil and wickedness is growing by leaps and bounds shoots down your theory.

No. It only illustrates that you do not understand what Daniel 9:24-27 is really actually saying.

 

[GaryA]

Is.

It is the "Great Tribulation" which is only 3.5 years. It begins at the midpoint when the Anti-Christ breaks his peace treaty. Things get much worse then.

The Rapture happens 7 years before our return to Earth with Christ to reign with Him for 1000 years.

The Church spends 7 years in Heaven while the wicked and much of Israel spend 7 years on Earth.

The very popular view that is based on a severe misinterpretation of Daniel 9:24-27.

 

[GaryA]

Sure you got a biblical argument. Tell us that universal and eternal righteousness and peace have been ALREADY been established on earth, and prove it. That is the final objective of Daniel's prophecy of 70 weeks.

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,
[1] to finish the transgression,
[2] and to make an end of sins,
[3] and to make reconciliation for iniquity,
[4] and to bring in everlasting righteousness,
[5] and to seal up the vision and prophecy,
[6] and to anoint the most Holy.

With everlasting righteousness there will be everlasting peace. And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. (Isa 32:17)

He does not need to prove anything - you are misinterpreting the Daniel 9:24-27 verses - which are referring to "putting the mechanism into place" and not some 'final-historical-end-result'. (Will people commit sin during the Millennium?) The ministry, death, burial, and resurrection of Christ fulfilled that entire list 100% - Daniel 9:24-27 is fulfilled - no part of it remains to be fulfilled.

 

[GaryA]

Notice the is a gap between the 69 and 70 weeks ------that is because this verse 24 has not been fulfilled yet

There is no gap - you are misinterpreting the verse.

 

[GaryA]

Yes! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ this is correct ^^^^^^^^^^

No! It is not!

 

[GaryA]

I'm surprised so many people think I should get saved. I been saved by the blood of Jesus Christ only since 1998. 25 years this July. I just personally never took to shooting Daniel's last week into the future to the tribulation when the weeks were exact from the rebuilding of the temple. It seems like poor exegesis or scripture interprets scripture to just add Daniel to revelations. The temple was destroyed after the apostle warned of it, writing as early as 50 ad. That's Daniel's week. Some people got it that it's the temple's destruction. Thanks for all those posts. It's not a salvation issue. I think some people are just being smug.

Some people seem to be of the opinion that - if you do not see things exactly as they do - you must not [even] be saved...

 

[GaryA]

"laugh today - cry tomorrow"

View attachment 250404

He Knows!

 

[GaryA]

He does not need to prove anything - you are misinterpreting the Daniel 9:24-27 verses - which are referring to "putting the mechanism into place" and not some 'final-historical-end-result'. (Will people commit sin during the Millennium?) The ministry, death, burial, and resurrection of Christ fulfilled that entire list 100% - Daniel 9:24-27 is fulfilled - no part of it remains to be fulfilled.

For an extended explanation, please see:

http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Seventy_Weeks.html

 

[GaryA]

~ that a great deal of it is already past (albeit, the worst is yet to come)

After thinking about it for a bit - the parenthetical remark should probably be looked at in somewhat of a 'relative' sense - 'worse' in one sense, but not necessarily in another sense.

 

[GaryA]

(Will people commit sin during the Millennium?)

@Nehemiah6 - yes or no - Will [even a single] sin be committed during the Millennium?