The Security Of The Believer
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Jesus got out of purgatory didn't he? Says Jesus held captivity captive. He told the thief on the cross with him that he would be in paradise with him that evening., Jesus was referring to some sort of "holding place" NOT Hades. More like "Abraham's Bossom." For Jesus it was easy in this holding place, he was sinless. However, it's my belief that it can be very difficult for a sinful man to get out of purgatory. Yet it says we will all be seasoned with the flames of hell, does it not? Yes, in order to perfect us. To make us more like Jesus. We are refined. How much pure gold will you produce? I've produced a lot of gold in my day. I'm very seasoned.
Wrong, it happened in Heaven. Not on Earth. Abraham's bossom is where I will go, for to be dead in the body is to be present with the LORD! My "seasoning" has not been finished yet, as I was speaking metaphorically of my Gold being produced. However, like I meant... I have touched every person's life on Earth in a personal way. I believe I have gifted the Earth with my coming.
The bible doctrine of eternal security cannot be disputed in any way shape of form. It's surprising to see others trying to impose conditions which open the door to the possibility of falling away.
You have summarized that bible doctrine very well. So there's no room for compromise here, but I notice some still don't accept it.
You have summarized that bible doctrine very well. So there's no room for compromise here, but I notice some still don't accept it.
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I think when people look at judgment verses they don't go deep enough into it to see who is being judged and what kind of judgment.
So when they see the verses like in 2 Peter of Gentiles who have escaped the pollution of the world thru the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ and then go back to corrupt ways.. the judgment of fire becomes hell to them..
But the context is of temporal discipline kind of judgment. The person who is a believer has a higher standard of faith to be judged by.
Their eternal destiny isn't in question but their closeness in relationship with Jesus and the discipline Jesus will give.
So when they see the verses like in 2 Peter of Gentiles who have escaped the pollution of the world thru the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ and then go back to corrupt ways.. the judgment of fire becomes hell to them..
But the context is of temporal discipline kind of judgment. The person who is a believer has a higher standard of faith to be judged by.
Their eternal destiny isn't in question but their closeness in relationship with Jesus and the discipline Jesus will give.
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Oh no.. I'm saying the Gentiles in this verse are Christian. You misunderstood. I'm saying someone who is converted..you go back to old ways is worse because they know differently..whereas the lost person is just going on the same polluted track.
But there is a key thing with the context here of an entire group judgment. Gentiles vs Jews as whole groups. This is also where people get it wrong in thinking a judgment verse is about an individual, but it could be a whole NT church or a whole group like the Gentiles as a collective.
But there is a key thing with the context here of an entire group judgment. Gentiles vs Jews as whole groups. This is also where people get it wrong in thinking a judgment verse is about an individual, but it could be a whole NT church or a whole group like the Gentiles as a collective.
I have a different view of what 2 Peter 2:20-22 is saying. The reason is, it seems to suggest that those who escaped the pollution of the world, did so only temporarily because they weren't genuinely converted. Their profession of faith came from agreeing with the gospel message, because it made sense to them to accept it in order to avoid judgement.
So they weren't converted but they were convinced that the gospel is true, but it wasn't long before their faith was put to the test in the world and they went back to living the old sinful way.
A person who is truly converted, is kept from falling away by the Holy Spirit. So they don't rely on their own strength and will to keep them rom falling away as the Gentiles in question did. It demonstrates that we can't change our sin nature, by trying to obey the gospel any more than a dog or a sow can.
2 Peter 2:20-22
For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”
So they weren't converted but they were convinced that the gospel is true, but it wasn't long before their faith was put to the test in the world and they went back to living the old sinful way.
A person who is truly converted, is kept from falling away by the Holy Spirit. So they don't rely on their own strength and will to keep them rom falling away as the Gentiles in question did. It demonstrates that we can't change our sin nature, by trying to obey the gospel any more than a dog or a sow can.
2 Peter 2:20-22
For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”
Job 33:27b-28[/QUOTE]
Jesus is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but for the sins of the whole world. 1 John 2:
Heb. 9:15 And for this cause He is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transge=ressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Col. 1:14 In whom we have redemption through His blood, even the forgiveness of sins.
Is your handle, EvePhil, a word play on EVIL?
Jesus is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but for the sins of the whole world. 1 John 2:
Heb. 9:15 And for this cause He is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transge=ressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Col. 1:14 In whom we have redemption through His blood, even the forgiveness of sins.
Is your handle, EvePhil, a word play on EVIL?
None of those verses say anything even remotely resembling your claim of:
Resurrection from the first death is possible because of each souls redemption.
The Security Of The Believer - Christian Chat Rooms & Forums <= from here.
Resurrection from the first death is possible because of each souls redemption.
The Security Of The Believer - Christian Chat Rooms & Forums <= from here.
Redemption is the forgiveness of sins. Jesus blood paid for all sins; except the sin of rejecting Jesus Christ as Lord. Obviously, those who reject the King are not eligible for life in the kingdom in fellowship with the King.
The scandal of the gospel is that, through one man's righteousness, God is not reckoning our many sins against us, so we have no excuse for hating Him and rejecting Him as Lord. !
The scandal of the gospel is that, through one man's righteousness, God is not reckoning our many sins against us, so we have no excuse for hating Him and rejecting Him as Lord. !
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Galatians 2:16 KJV — Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith/faithfulness of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith/faithfulness of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
1 Corinthians 1:21 KJV — For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
Romans 10:11 KJV — For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Romans 9:33 KJV — As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumbling stone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Romans 4:5 KJV — But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Romans 3:3 KJV — For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
Romans 1:16 KJV — For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Acts 13:39 KJV — And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
John 8:24 KJV — I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
John 3:36 KJV — He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 3:16 KJV — For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Mark 16:16 KJV — He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
Romans 3:24 KJV — Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Romans 3:26 KJV — To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Romans 5:1 KJV — Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Romans 5:9 KJV — Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Romans 5:18 KJV — Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Galatians 3:24 KJV — Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Galatians 3:11 KJV — But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
2 Cor. 5:19 To wit that God was in Christ, reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
The only requirement God has on those who would be saved is that we believe on Jesus Christ as the scapegoat who has already taken away our sins in His own body on the cross. All sins other than rejecting Jesus as risen Lord are therefore, logically, taken off all our records. This one sin is quite sufficient to exclude us from His Kingdom.
Luke 19:14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying "We do not want to have this man to reign over us." ...
27. "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."
In not imputing our sins to us, other than the sin of rejecting God's appointed King, God does His utmost to welcome sinners to reconcile with Him and accept and trust His rule in their lives.
1 Corinthians 1:21 KJV — For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
Romans 10:11 KJV — For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Romans 9:33 KJV — As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumbling stone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Romans 4:5 KJV — But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Romans 3:3 KJV — For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
Romans 1:16 KJV — For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Acts 13:39 KJV — And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
John 8:24 KJV — I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
John 3:36 KJV — He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 3:16 KJV — For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Mark 16:16 KJV — He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
Romans 3:24 KJV — Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Romans 3:26 KJV — To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Romans 5:1 KJV — Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Romans 5:9 KJV — Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Romans 5:18 KJV — Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Galatians 3:24 KJV — Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Galatians 3:11 KJV — But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
2 Cor. 5:19 To wit that God was in Christ, reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
The only requirement God has on those who would be saved is that we believe on Jesus Christ as the scapegoat who has already taken away our sins in His own body on the cross. All sins other than rejecting Jesus as risen Lord are therefore, logically, taken off all our records. This one sin is quite sufficient to exclude us from His Kingdom.
Luke 19:14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying "We do not want to have this man to reign over us." ...
27. "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."
In not imputing our sins to us, other than the sin of rejecting God's appointed King, God does His utmost to welcome sinners to reconcile with Him and accept and trust His rule in their lives.