The Security Of The Believer

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Dec 25, 2023
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Who has asked this of you? You sure have a lot to say for one so tired .:unsure::geek:
I've been expelled from federally funded medical facilities due to my hearing impairment, faced bans on forums for my unique mode of communication, encountered harassment towards my service dog, and asked for non-existent service animal verification. Police have even removed me and my dog from events. Wrongful bans on Facebook groups have become commonplace. I appreciate your liking my style, but I may have to resort to using pure Bible quotes from now on.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,229
1,126
113
New Zealand
I've been expelled from federally funded medical facilities due to my hearing impairment, faced bans on forums for my unique mode of communication, encountered harassment towards my service dog, and asked for non-existent service animal verification. Police have even removed me and my dog from events. Wrongful bans on Facebook groups have become commonplace. I appreciate your liking my style, but I may have to resort to using pure Bible quotes from now on.
Sorry I typed you may have autism. Bad assumption.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,828
29,201
113
I've been expelled from federally funded medical facilities due to my hearing impairment, faced bans on forums for my unique mode of communication, encountered harassment towards my service dog, and asked for non-existent service animal verification. Police have even removed me and my dog from events. Wrongful bans on Facebook groups have become commonplace. I appreciate your liking my style, but I may have to resort to using pure Bible quotes from now on.
I am sorry to hear of all your troubles... resorting to just Bible quotes is not a
terribly bad idea, but then you would be depriving us of your unique style
.:)
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,828
29,201
113
Agreed! And to simplify it a bit:

Armin and Calvinism believe the same thing, they just word it differently.

Calv~~If you don't produce works/fruit/stuff you will lose the salvation you THOUGHT you had.....you were not really saved.

Arm~~ if you don't produce works/fruits/stuff you will lose salvation.

Both are from the PIT.
Both have similarities, for sure. Calvinism differs in claiming that the gospel is not really meant for all, i.e., there are those predestined for the lake of fire, whereas Arminianism affirms that accepting the gospel is for whosoever will believe. Calvinism says, essentially, that God will punish forever after those who do not choose to believe, when the choice is not for them to begin with. I found this (source):

TULIP (Calvinism)
T: Total depravity — Every facet of every person everywhere has been marred by sin.
U: Unconditional election — God chooses those to be saved based solely on His will.
L: Limited atonement — Christ died only for those who are elect.
I: Irresistible grace — The elect cannot resist God’s call to salvation.
P: Perseverance of the saints — The elect cannot lose their salvation.
DAISY (Arminianism):
D: Diminished depravity — Humanity is depraved, but God uses prevenient grace to restore man’s ability to respond to Him.
A: Abrogated election — God bases His election on His foreknowledge of those who freely choose Him.
I: Impersonal atonement — Christ died for everyone, making salvation possible for everyone.
S: Sedentary grace — God calls everyone to salvation, but many freely reject it.
Y: Yieldable justification — The saved can fall from grace and lose their salvation.
ROSES (Molinism):
R: Radical depravity — Every aspect of humanity is depraved, but we are not always as bad as we could be.
O: Overcoming grace — God’s grace is persistent in the life of the believer, but it can be resisted.
S: Sovereign election — God desires the salvation of all, but our salvation is based on His choice not ours.
E: Eternal life — God grants believers eternal security in their salvation.
S: Singular redemption — Christ died sufficiently for all people, but efficiently only for the saved.
A Clarification on DAISY, Plus a Few Other Acronyms…

Many Arminians don’t approve of the DAISY acronym. (There are Calvinists who dislike TULIP too.) I admit that the version of DAISY I use above is actually a Calvinist formulation, explaining Arminianism from their perspective. I felt it necessary, however, to list this version of Daisy first since it tends to be the one most notably seen in the Christian community. One version of DAISY, with different wording, explains this alternative formation:

D: Deliberate sin — Humans choose to sin based on their own will, not their sinful nature.
A: All-encompassing call — Salvation is available to everyone who seeks or desires it.
I: Infinite love — God desires for everyone to be saved, not just the “elect.”
S: Spontaneous faith — Faith, while a gift of God, is brought about by a human choice.
Y: Yieldedness of the Saints — It is possible for someone who is “saved” to lose their salvation.
There is also the FACTS acronym, which comes directly from the Society of Evangelical Arminians:
Freed by Grace (to Believe)
Atonement for All
Conditional Election
Total Depravity
Security in Christ
Also worth noting is the Anabaptist’s GRACE acronym:
God’s Broken Image.
Reborn through Faith.
Atonement for All.
Chosen and Choosing.
Empowered to Grow.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,771
113
Calv~~If you don't produce works/fruit/stuff you will lose the salvation you THOUGHT you had.....you were not really saved.
This is completely false. While I am not a Calvinist, I am quite familiar with the Westminster Confession of Faith (Reformed Theology). And you will not find anything there which resembles what you have just stated.
 

Kroogz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2023
759
293
63
This is completely false. While I am not a Calvinist, I am quite familiar with the Westminster Confession of Faith (Reformed Theology). And you will not find anything there which resembles what you have just stated.
This is completely false.

I underlined mine, so I am right.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,771
113
I underlined mine, so I am right.
How can you be right when you are misrepresenting Reformed Theology? Christians do not have the liberty to invent lies to justify themselves. If you think you are right, quote directly from the Westminster Confession to support what you said.
 

Kroogz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2023
759
293
63
How can you be right when you are misrepresenting Reformed Theology? Christians do not have the liberty to invent lies to justify themselves. If you think you are right, quote directly from the Westminster Confession to support what you said.
Get your panties out of a bunch.

Technically, you are correct. I am talking about boots on the ground reformed theology today. I was in reformed churches for 10 plus years.

I heard, The book of James and "they were not really saved" 1000's of times.
 

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
3,197
1,601
113
Midwest
Both have similarities, for sure. Calvinism differs in claiming that the gospel is not really meant for all, i.e., there are those predestined for the lake of fire, whereas Arminianism affirms that accepting the gospel is for whosoever will believe. Calvinism says, essentially, that God will punish forever after those who do not choose to believe, when the choice is not for them to begin with. I found this (source):

TULIP (Calvinism)
T: Total depravity — Every facet of every person everywhere has been marred by sin.
U: Unconditional election — God chooses those to be saved based solely on His will.
L: Limited atonement — Christ died only for those who are elect.
I: Irresistible grace — The elect cannot resist God’s call to salvation.
P: Perseverance of the saints — The elect cannot lose their salvation.
DAISY (Arminianism):
D: Diminished depravity — Humanity is depraved, but God uses prevenient grace to restore man’s ability to respond to Him.
A: Abrogated election — God bases His election on His foreknowledge of those who freely choose Him.
I: Impersonal atonement — Christ died for everyone, making salvation possible for everyone.
S: Sedentary grace — God calls everyone to salvation, but many freely reject it.
Y: Yieldable justification — The saved can fall from grace and lose their salvation.
ROSES (Molinism):
R: Radical depravity — Every aspect of humanity is depraved, but we are not always as bad as we could be.
O: Overcoming grace — God’s grace is persistent in the life of the believer, but it can be resisted.
S: Sovereign election — God desires the salvation of all, but our salvation is based on His choice not ours.
E: Eternal life — God grants believers eternal security in their salvation.
S: Singular redemption — Christ died sufficiently for all people, but efficiently only for the saved.
A Clarification on DAISY, Plus a Few Other Acronyms…

Many Arminians don’t approve of the DAISY acronym. (There are Calvinists who dislike TULIP too.) I admit that the version of DAISY I use above is actually a Calvinist formulation, explaining Arminianism from their perspective. I felt it necessary, however, to list this version of Daisy first since it tends to be the one most notably seen in the Christian community. One version of DAISY, with different wording, explains this alternative formation:

D: Deliberate sin — Humans choose to sin based on their own will, not their sinful nature.
A: All-encompassing call — Salvation is available to everyone who seeks or desires it.
I: Infinite love — God desires for everyone to be saved, not just the “elect.”
S: Spontaneous faith — Faith, while a gift of God, is brought about by a human choice.
Y: Yieldedness of the Saints — It is possible for someone who is “saved” to lose their salvation.
There is also the FACTS acronym, which comes directly from the Society of Evangelical Arminians:
Freed by Grace (to Believe)
Atonement for All
Conditional Election
Total Depravity
Security in Christ
Also worth noting is the Anabaptist’s GRACE acronym:
God’s Broken Image.
Reborn through Faith.
Atonement for All.
Chosen and Choosing.
Empowered to Grow.
Whewzie Woozie, no wonder I prefer "Simplicity In Christ" with 'r & f' so much:

"Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance​
toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ." (Acts 20:21)​
Amen. ♫ 😇 ↑
 
Dec 25, 2023
50
8
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Maybe Tulipbee has autism. Many people who have autism write with extra detail in a very logical and orderly manner, with alot of information. The concern I have, which I think Magenta also has.. is they are repeating standardised definitions of everything which is the hallmarks of a bot.

In the latest Netflix film, "The Chosen," there's a tax collector protected by the Romans. This tax collector, named Matthew, has autism but is exceptionally skilled with numbers. Jesus notices him, likes him, and invites him to join. It's interesting to speculate if Jesus will heal him in Season 2, although doubts linger. It seems like a normal possibility, but reactions might be intense if Jesus heals an autistic character in the movie. I'm curious to meet Magenta now; she and AI could probably get along quite well.
 
Dec 25, 2023
50
8
8
Sorry I typed you may have autism. Bad assumption.
Never mind my casual approach, as I'm just like you. However, I'm contemplating something that could significantly enhance this forum. Imagine attracting more advertisers, sponsors, donors, and members—positioning ourselves to compete with Mark Zuckerberg. He's got something big up his sleeve, and it's called Meta AI. He's invested hundreds of millions, and guess what? He's planning to integrate Meta AI into groups. It's already underway. Brace yourselves—the era of bots is approaching. But remember, I'm no bot.
 
Dec 25, 2023
50
8
8
I am sorry to hear of all your troubles... resorting to just Bible quotes is not a
terribly bad idea, but then you would be depriving us of your unique style
.:)
One individual attempted an all-Bible quote approach, but it didn't seem to yield positive results. Perhaps incorporating a bit of tradition could enhance the proclamation of the gospel. In my efforts to share more quotes, I faced bans from Protestant, Orthodox, and Catholic debate Facebook groups for utilizing AI to retrieve information related to "tradition." The administrators took issue when it became evident that the apostles themselves adhered to biblical tradition. Poof—I was expelled. However, this experience has added an interesting twist to my story.

It's worth noting that private businesses aren't necessarily bound by such laws; for instance, your dad isn't obligated to accept a service animal in his house. Therefore, private Facebook groups, forums, or any private entities that don't advise or pay taxes on earnings can set their own rules. I often pose the question: why do these groups and forums have advertising? When it comes to public-like activities, laws come into play. Whether I'm accepted or rejected in various places only adds richness to my narrative. Interestingly, I just finished watching Netflix's "The Circle" with Tom Hanks an hour ago, and it's making me reconsider the use of names in my story.
 
Dec 25, 2023
50
8
8
Both have similarities, for sure. Calvinism differs in claiming that the gospel is not really meant for all, i.e., there are those predestined for the lake of fire, whereas Arminianism affirms that accepting the gospel is for whosoever will believe. Calvinism says, essentially, that God will punish forever after those who do not choose to believe, when the choice is not for them to begin with. I found this (source):

TULIP (Calvinism)
T: Total depravity — Every facet of every person everywhere has been marred by sin.
U: Unconditional election — God chooses those to be saved based solely on His will.
L: Limited atonement — Christ died only for those who are elect.
I: Irresistible grace — The elect cannot resist God’s call to salvation.
P: Perseverance of the saints — The elect cannot lose their salvation.
DAISY (Arminianism):
D: Diminished depravity — Humanity is depraved, but God uses prevenient grace to restore man’s ability to respond to Him.
A: Abrogated election — God bases His election on His foreknowledge of those who freely choose Him.
I: Impersonal atonement — Christ died for everyone, making salvation possible for everyone.
S: Sedentary grace — God calls everyone to salvation, but many freely reject it.
Y: Yieldable justification — The saved can fall from grace and lose their salvation.
ROSES (Molinism):
R: Radical depravity — Every aspect of humanity is depraved, but we are not always as bad as we could be.
O: Overcoming grace — God’s grace is persistent in the life of the believer, but it can be resisted.
S: Sovereign election — God desires the salvation of all, but our salvation is based on His choice not ours.
E: Eternal life — God grants believers eternal security in their salvation.
S: Singular redemption — Christ died sufficiently for all people, but efficiently only for the saved.
A Clarification on DAISY, Plus a Few Other Acronyms…

Many Arminians don’t approve of the DAISY acronym. (There are Calvinists who dislike TULIP too.) I admit that the version of DAISY I use above is actually a Calvinist formulation, explaining Arminianism from their perspective. I felt it necessary, however, to list this version of Daisy first since it tends to be the one most notably seen in the Christian community. One version of DAISY, with different wording, explains this alternative formation:

D: Deliberate sin — Humans choose to sin based on their own will, not their sinful nature.
A: All-encompassing call — Salvation is available to everyone who seeks or desires it.
I: Infinite love — God desires for everyone to be saved, not just the “elect.”
S: Spontaneous faith — Faith, while a gift of God, is brought about by a human choice.
Y: Yieldedness of the Saints — It is possible for someone who is “saved” to lose their salvation.
There is also the FACTS acronym, which comes directly from the Society of Evangelical Arminians:
Freed by Grace (to Believe)
Atonement for All
Conditional Election
Total Depravity
Security in Christ
Also worth noting is the Anabaptist’s GRACE acronym:
God’s Broken Image.
Reborn through Faith.
Atonement for All.
Chosen and Choosing.
Empowered to Grow.
968822_340058756124254_1700652783_n.jpg

Arminians seem a bit eccentric and casual in their approach to Jesus. They ask Jesus to back off until they're ready, based on their preferences rather than God's plan. I find myself praying for them every day, earnestly hoping they don't encounter certain challenges.
 

Eli1

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2022
4,625
1,966
113
46
In my efforts to share more quotes, I faced bans from Protestant, Orthodox, and Catholic debate Facebook groups for utilizing AI to retrieve information related to "tradition."
Have you thought about that AI makes you sort of like an empty shell or a mindless drone without any thoughts from you which could involve your passion and spirit?
This "Ai" which is more accurately called The Internet has affected a lot of young minds and adults unfortunately to become mindless drones or by-products of a system, but there are also others who have a lot of fun trolling people among this confusion on what i consider to be the death of critical thinking for humanity since the invention of the internet.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,229
1,126
113
New Zealand
Never mind my casual approach, as I'm just like you. However, I'm contemplating something that could significantly enhance this forum. Imagine attracting more advertisers, sponsors, donors, and members—positioning ourselves to compete with Mark Zuckerberg. He's got something big up his sleeve, and it's called Meta AI. He's invested hundreds of millions, and guess what? He's planning to integrate Meta AI into groups. It's already underway. Brace yourselves—the era of bots is approaching. But remember, I'm no bot.
Na man..the local New Testament church is the pillar and ground of the truth and where the source of all solid biblical teaching should be from.

Forums are useful. I go on this one alot. But the member that really counts is a member of a local NT church.
 

Aussie52

Active member
Aug 31, 2022
159
150
43
View attachment 259862

Arminians seem a bit eccentric and casual in their approach to Jesus. They ask Jesus to back off until they're ready, based on their preferences rather than God's plan. I find myself praying for them every day, earnestly hoping they don't encounter certain challenges.
I do not know which Arminians you have in mind but I, as an Arminian am not eccentric and I don't have a casual approach to Jesus.
I believe you need to read up Arminian authors and get your information first hand rather that the straw men invented by Calvinists.
 
Dec 25, 2023
50
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I do not know which Arminians you have in mind but I, as an Arminian am not eccentric and I don't have a casual approach to Jesus.
I believe you need to read up Arminian authors and get your information first hand rather that the straw men invented by Calvinists.
In the quaint village of Theologica, where theological discussions meandered like a gentle stream, Aussie52 found himself engaged in a conversation about Arminianism. The sun cast its golden hues upon the cobblestone streets as the exchange unfolded.
A figure named Calvinus, a scholar well-versed in the teachings of John Calvin, stepped forward. "In the Institutes of the Christian Religion, Calvin delves into the intricate dance between God's sovereignty and human responsibility. It's a tapestry woven with divine purpose," Calvinus began.
Quoting from Calvin's writings, he continued, "God, by his eternal and immutable counsel, determined once for all those whom it was his pleasure one day to admit to salvation, and those whom, on the other hand, it was his pleasure to doom to destruction."
Aussie52 listened intently as Calvinus shared Calvinistic insights. "The essence of Calvinism lies in the belief that God, in His sovereignty, predestines individuals for salvation. It's a profound mystery that emphasizes God's initiative in the salvation of His chosen ones," Calvinus explained.
As the conversation unfolded, Aussie52 voiced his perspective as an Arminian. Calvinus responded with kindness, "In the spirit of understanding, let us respect each other's perspectives. Arminianism, with its emphasis on human free will, presents a different viewpoint. It's a nuanced dialogue that invites us to explore the mysteries of divine grace and human response."
Yet, the atmosphere took a turn as the topic shifted to Arminianism errors. Aussie52, with conviction, defended his beliefs, "I, as an Arminian, am not eccentric and I don't have a casual approach to Jesus."
In response, Calvinus continued, "Let us engage in a genuine dialogue, acknowledging the diversity of theological perspectives. While Calvinism underscores the sovereignty of God, Arminianism places emphasis on human choice."
Under the imaginary sky of Theologica, the two figures continued their discourse, exchanging ideas and exploring the rich tapestry of theological thought. May the village be adorned with the kindness that befits the pursuit of truth and understanding. #ChristianReflections
 
Dec 25, 2023
50
8
8
Na man..the local New Testament church is the pillar and ground of the truth and where the source of all solid biblical teaching should be from.

Forums are useful. I go on this one alot. But the member that really counts is a member of a local NT church.
In the serene landscapes of Theologica, where theological musings danced like leaves in the wind, a figure named Watticus, well-versed in the teachings of the New Testament, found himself immersed in a conversation about the significance of local churches. The sun cast its warm glow upon the hills of New Zealand as the dialogue unfolded.

A scholar named Calvinus, knowledgeable in the works of John Calvin, stepped forward. "In the Institutes of the Christian Religion, Calvin expounds on the importance of the Church as the pillar and ground of the truth. It is within the local congregation that believers find a nurturing environment for solid biblical teaching," Calvinus began.

Quoting from Calvin's writings, he continued, "Wherever we see the Word of God purely preached and heard, there a church of God exists, even if it swarms with many faults."

Watticus, standing amidst the imaginary hills, nodded in agreement. Calvinus continued, "Calvinism emphasizes the role of the Church as a sacred institution, safeguarding the truth of God's Word. It's a recognition that the local New Testament church serves as a beacon of truth and a source of sound biblical teaching."

As the conversation unfolded, Watticus expressed his perspective, "Na man... the local New Testament church is the pillar and ground of the truth and where the source of all solid biblical teaching should be from. Forums are useful. I go on this one a lot. But the member that really counts is a member of a local NT church."

Calvinus, with respect for Watticus' viewpoint, responded, "Indeed, the local church holds a special place in the Christian journey. It is within the fellowship of believers that the truth is upheld, and biblical teachings find their roots. May our discussions here complement the richness of the local church experience."

Under the imaginary New Zealand sky, the two figures continued their discourse, exploring the harmonious interplay between online forums and the foundational truth nurtured within the local New Testament church. May the hills of Theologica be adorned with the kindness that befits the pursuit of truth and understanding. #ChristianReflections
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,229
1,126
113
New Zealand
In the serene landscapes of Theologica, where theological musings danced like leaves in the wind, a figure named Watticus, well-versed in the teachings of the New Testament, found himself immersed in a conversation about the significance of local churches. The sun cast its warm glow upon the hills of New Zealand as the dialogue unfolded.

A scholar named Calvinus, knowledgeable in the works of John Calvin, stepped forward. "In the Institutes of the Christian Religion, Calvin expounds on the importance of the Church as the pillar and ground of the truth. It is within the local congregation that believers find a nurturing environment for solid biblical teaching," Calvinus began.

Quoting from Calvin's writings, he continued, "Wherever we see the Word of God purely preached and heard, there a church of God exists, even if it swarms with many faults."

Watticus, standing amidst the imaginary hills, nodded in agreement. Calvinus continued, "Calvinism emphasizes the role of the Church as a sacred institution, safeguarding the truth of God's Word. It's a recognition that the local New Testament church serves as a beacon of truth and a source of sound biblical teaching."

As the conversation unfolded, Watticus expressed his perspective, "Na man... the local New Testament church is the pillar and ground of the truth and where the source of all solid biblical teaching should be from. Forums are useful. I go on this one a lot. But the member that really counts is a member of a local NT church."

Calvinus, with respect for Watticus' viewpoint, responded, "Indeed, the local church holds a special place in the Christian journey. It is within the fellowship of believers that the truth is upheld, and biblical teachings find their roots. May our discussions here complement the richness of the local church experience."

Under the imaginary New Zealand sky, the two figures continued their discourse, exploring the harmonious interplay between online forums and the foundational truth nurtured within the local New Testament church. May the hills of Theologica be adorned with the kindness that befits the pursuit of truth and understanding. #ChristianReflections
Weeeell I don't know about there beimg harmony here. A Christian forum and a local NT church are very different. A forum can point people to churches..but it is no church in itself.

Anyway that is very creative writing ✍️