the Sabbath

[SaysWhat]

Here's more context Jesus was condemning those who keep their own rules over obeying the commandments of God quoting directly from the Ten Commandments

Mat 15: 3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father [a]or mother.’ Thus you have made the [b]commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:

8 ‘These people [c]draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”

Which goes with

And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Good example of how they transgressed scripture especially verse 4, where they were instructed to kill the person. Yet they took profits instead making it have no effect.

Yeah in the OT, it was a serious offense and death was to be carried out. They practiced lawlessness by not killing, the old testament didn't play around.

Matt 15:4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’

 

[Magenta]

Jesus is my Sabbath rest.

 

[Cameron143]

You said those who don't keep Christ's commandments aren't saved, and no one is saved keeping Moses' commandments . So Christ's commandments can't be Moses' commandments because keeping Christ's commandments saves, but keeping Moses' commandments doesn't.

Keeping Christ's commandments don't save. Otherwise, salvation would not be by grace. Keeping commandments may be evidence of salvation, however. But the best evidence of salvation is fruit.
Ultimately, we cannot know if someone is saved because we do not have access to hearts. But those who exhibit fruit are likely saved because fruit, unlike outward obedience, is not a matter of the will of man but produced by the Spirit Himself.

 

[Magenta]

Keeping Christ's commandments don't save. Otherwise, salvation would not be by grace. Keeping commandments may be evidence of salvation, however. But the best evidence of salvation is fruit.
Ultimately, we cannot know if someone is saved because we do not have access to hearts. But those who exhibit fruit are likely saved because fruit, unlike outward obedience, is not a matter of the will of man but produced by the Spirit Himself.

1 Samuel 16:7b - God looks at the heart

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Not keeping commandments is evidence that someone isn't saved, not that they are. But no one ever has been saved by keeping the law.

I don't know, it seems to me Jesus was pretty clear.

First Jesus defined the commandments of God as being from the Ten Commandments, which came in a unit of Ten designed personally by God Deut 4:13 Exo 34:28. It's always surprising to me this is even an argument because Jesus who is God and wrote the Ten Commandments with His own finger claimed them as "My commandments" which includes the Sabbath commandment. So people try to make silly arguments that the Sabbath is no longer one of God's commandments and was not part of "God's law" He wrote in our hearts, which is really a terrible argument not with me, but with God who wrote and clearly identified His law.

Jesus in His own Words said those who keep their own rules in lieu of obeying God and keeping His commandments said the following which you can find in Mat 15:3-14

1. Their heart is far from Him - where did God place His law- in our hearts Heb 8:10 rebelling against God's commandments which Jesus said was from the Ten Commandments makes our heart far from Him
2. He said when we do this one worships in vain
3. If you keep reading you will Jesus said that path leads to a ditch

Do you think we are in a saved state by having our hearts from Him i.e. I don't know you, worshipping Him in vain and ending up in a ditch is the path that leads us back to Christ?

We are told what a saved person does- not to be saved but because one is saved and a follower of Christ.

Rev 22:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Scripture tells us whoever we obey, is who we serve. Rom 6:16

We are told we must worship God in Truth and spirit John 4:24 all of God's commandments are Truth Psa 119:151 and when we keep our rules over obeying God's commandments Jesus said in His own Words one worships Him in vain.

We are living in the last days, we need to come out of our false teachings and obey God the way He said, before its too late.

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Jesus is my Sabbath rest.

Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath Mat 2:28 the Creator of the Sabbath, not that He ever became the creation i.e. the Sabbath day, a commandment. God said the seventh day is the Sabbath Exo 20:10 not that He is the Sabbath. He is our Creator so I believe we should let God define things for us, and He does and if we believe in Him we should believe His Words. God never gave Him a commandment, the commandments are for us, the Sabbath was made for us, to follow it the way God instructed.

Jesus in His own Words said it is something man does.....not something He does.

Isa 56:2 Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,

He gives us rest and those who enter His rest also cease from his works as God did from His on the seventh day.

Hebrews 4:10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.
Heb 4:4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”;

Heb 4: 11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.

 

[Cameron143]

I don't know, it seems to me Jesus was pretty clear.

First Jesus defined the commandments of God as being from the Ten Commandments, which came in a unit of Ten designed personally by God Deut 4:13 Exo 34:28. It's always surprising to me this is even an argument because Jesus who is God and wrote the Ten Commandments with His own finger claimed them as "My commandments" which includes the Sabbath commandment. So people try to make silly arguments that the Sabbath is no longer one of God's commandments and was not part of "God's law" He wrote in our hearts, which is really a terrible argument not with me, but with God who wrote and clearly identified His law.

Jesus in His own Words said those who keep their own rules in lieu of obeying God and keeping His commandments said the following which you can find in Mat 15:3-14

1. Their heart is far from Him - where did God place His law- in our hearts Heb 8:10 rebelling against God's commandments which Jesus said was from the Ten Commandments makes our heart far from Him
2. He said when we do this one worships in vain
3. If you keep reading you will Jesus said that path leads to a ditch

Do you think we are in a saved state by having our hearts from Him i.e. I don't know you, worshipping Him in vain and ending up in a ditch is the path that leads us back to Christ?

We are told what a saved person does- not to be saved but because one is saved and a follower of Christ.

Rev 22:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Scripture tells us whoever we obey, is who we serve. Rom 6:16

We are told we must worship God in Truth and spirit John 4:24 all of God's commandments are Truth Psa 119:151 and when we keep our rules over obeying God's commandments Jesus said in His own Words one worships Him in vain.

We are living in the last days, we need to come out of our false teachings and obey God the way He said, before its too late.

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.

There are a number of things here but I can't make out what your point is. Can you summarize it for me?

 

[SabbathBlessing]

There are a number of things here but I can't make out what your point is. Can you summarize it for me?

Obeying God the way He said, not to be saved but because one is saved through faith reconciles us back to Christ

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

Trusting in our own rules over obeying the commandments of God- Jesus quoting from the Ten Commandments- leads one to a ditch, not my words Mat 15:3-14

Do we obey God the way He said or follow our own rules, whoever we obey is who we serve Romans 6:16, even if we don't realize it and those decisions lead us the path we are on today- one reconciles us back to Christ - through the gates, the one leaves us to a ditch Mat 5:3-14 and outside Rev 22:15

Lets let God be God, He gave us His commandments written by His own finger- no greater Authority, the only change ever made to the Ten Commandments was the placement- from tables of stone to tablets of heart based on the better promise of Him doing, we just need to cooperate with Him.

You can disagree, I am okay with it, but these are clear teachings from Jesus Christ,, who we are to live by His every Word, who is the WAY, always leading by example, our example to follow in His footsteps.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Do we obey God the way He said or follow our own rules

Following Moses instead of Christ is following your own rules and rebellion against Christ

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Following Moses instead of Christ is following your own rules and rebellion against Christ

When did Moses ever become God? Your post is your words, which is not scripture. I don't know if you realize this or not, but we are not to follow the teachings of man but tp live by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. Mat 4:4 Jesus repeated this from the OT.


Exo 32:16 Now the tablets were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God engraved on the tablets.
Deut 4: 13 So He (God) declared to you His (God) covenant which He (God) commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He (God) wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Exo 34:28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He (God) wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

Right in the Ten Commandments that God wrote with His own finger He said they were MY commandments- this includes the Sabbath.

Exodus 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me (God) and keep My (God) commandments.

Jesus also called the Ten Commandments the commandments of God Mat 15:3-14. Moses is not God.

You seem to be arguing with a much greater Authority than I

 

[Cameron143]

Obeying God the way He said, not to be saved but because one is saved through faith reconciles us back to Christ

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

Trusting in our own rules over obeying the commandments of God- Jesus quoting from the Ten Commandments- leads one to a ditch, not my words Mat 15:3-14

Do we obey God the way He said or follow our own rules, whoever we obey is who we serve Romans 6:16, even if we don't realize it and those decisions lead us the path we are on today- one reconciles us back to Christ - through the gates, the one leaves us to a ditch Mat 5:3-14 and outside Rev 22:15

Lets let God be God, He gave us His commandments written by His own finger- no greater Authority, the only change ever made to the Ten Commandments was the placement- from tables of stone to tablets of heart based on the better promise of Him doing, we just need to cooperate with Him.

You can disagree, I am okay with it, but these are clear teachings from Jesus Christ,, who we are to live by His every Word, who is the WAY, always leading by example, our example to follow in His footsteps.

I think we should obey. But to truly obey we will need to walk in the Spirit. We need to develop a relationship with Christ that is prospered in humility and prayer.

You seem to place an inordinate amount of emphasis on the law rather than on God Himself. By concentrating on the law you place emphasis on the individual and his actions rather than God and His actions. While this can at times be a helpful, by placing the emphasis on man and His actions, you miss the the part of God in our conformity into the image of Christ. And while we are responsible for our actions before God, we are also dependent upon God for the inward change that produces true obedience.

I just think your emphasis is misplaced.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

I think we should obey. But to truly obey we will need to walk in the Spirit. We need to develop a relationship with Christ that is prospered in humility and prayer.

You seem to place an inordinate amount of emphasis on the law rather than on God Himself. By concentrating on the law you place emphasis on the individual and his actions rather than God and His actions. While this can at times be a helpful, by placing the emphasis on man and His actions, you miss the the part of God in our conformity into the image of Christ. And while we are responsible for our actions before God, we are also dependent upon God for the inward change that produces true obedience.

I just think your emphasis is misplaced.

I think yours is too.

We do not receive the Spirit by disobedience to God.

Its conditional on our cooperation with Him

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

Acts 5:32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”

I wasn't expecting you to be responsive to the scriptures I posted, but I tried.

Guess all will get sorted out soon enough. I wish you well. Take care

 

[GWH]

"Emphasis". That is what the thread about "Hermeneutics" is going to discuss in a pursuit of Christian unity as the emphasis if y'both want to participate. LIC

 

[SabbathBlessing]

We should never unify on the compromise of God's Truth. All God's commandments are His Truth Psa 119:172

This is going to be what it comes down to at the end, which we are living close to.

Jesus relates "worship" to obedience to the commandments of God quoting from the Ten Commandments and said when we keep our rules over obedience to God's commandments one worships in vain. Mat 15:3-14

What the end time is all about, so I see why many Christians want to unify at the compromise of God's commandments- part of the big push of the Project 2025 platform and various other platforms- making a national Sunday law. Might "seem" good in theory, but God never forces worship and this is similar things Daniel and his friends had to face over the commandments of God. Was not in the Prophetic book of Daniel by accident because it will happen again.

However, God's remnant stays faithful to God.

The problem:

Rev 14: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

The antidote

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

When did Moses ever become God?

Israel didn't receive the law from God, they received it from Moses. They told Moses that they didn't want to hear God speaking directly to them and asked him to act as their priest to give the law to them. God said good idea

Jesus, who is the form and high priest of God, spoke directly to Israel and said whoever doesn't hearken to his words would be in trouble. He told Israel still under the old covenant to obey Moses until all righteousness was fulfilled. Christ fulfilled all righteousness at the cross. Therefore, with the new priesthood there is new law spoken out the mouth of Jesus, ie love your neighbor as yourself, which is the spirit behind the letters of each of the 10 commandments

The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not. And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. Deuteronomy 18:15-19​

​

And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. John 12:47-49​

​

If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. Hebrews 7:11-12​

​

For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God. Hebrews 7:19​

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Israel didn't receive the law from God, they received it from Moses. They told Moses that they didn't want to hear God speaking directly to them and asked him to act as their priest to give the law to them. God said good idea

Jesus, who is the form and high priest of God, spoke directly to Israel and said whoever doesn't hearken to his words would be in trouble. He told Israel still under the old covenant to obey Moses until all righteousness was fulfilled. Christ fulfilled all righteousness at the cross. Therefore, with the new priesthood there is new law spoken out the mouth of Jesus, ie love your neighbor as yourself, which is the spirit behind the letters of each of the 10 commandments

The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not. And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. Deuteronomy 18:15-19​

​

And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. John 12:47-49​

​

If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. Hebrews 7:11-12​

​

For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God. Hebrews 7:19​

Thats not was what said, Moses gave the law to the Israelites but it was God's commandments- He spoke them, He wrote them and claimed them as His, not Moses. Moses wrote other laws in a book, called the law of Moses Deut 31:24-26 they were placed outside the ark as a witness against for breaking what was inside God's Ten Commandments. God's law already existed before this, it was just written down on stone by the finger of God, which there is no greater Authority than God.

You are quoting too many scriptures out of context for me to keep up. Many have already been shown in context on this thread.

All gets sorted out soon, so guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

Take care, I wish you well.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Take care, I wish you well.

I don't wish you well until you repent of casting stumbling blocks in front of the brothers. It's a very perilous situation you are in.

 

[Cameron143]

I think yours is too.

We do not receive the Spirit by disobedience to God.

Its conditional on our cooperation with Him

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

Acts 5:32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”

I wasn't expecting you to be responsive to the scriptures I posted, but I tried.

Guess all will get sorted out soon enough. I wish you well. Take care

No, if we are Christians we are indwelt by the Spirit...Romans 8:9.
Also, receiving the Spirit being contingent upon anything is contrary to salvation by grace.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

According to Jesus He taught something different. Something I would consider because He cannot lie

Mat 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

I do not believe "least in heaven" means one will be there if we read the next verse. v20 So where is the stumbling block, one who teaches men to break the least of these commandments which Jesus said both student and teacher who does this quoting from the same unit of Ten both teacher and student ends up in a ditch. Mat 15:3-14

Leading people to destruction is the stumbling block, not trying to help people throw a life jacket out from all the bad teachings we are warned about Isa 8:20 in hopes someone would listen. It was the same way in scripture, Jesus and the apostles taught to keep the commandments of God and most of them were killed and crucified by said believers. Sadly, not much has changed.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

No, if we are Christians we are indwelt by the Spirit...Romans 8:9.
Also, receiving the Spirit being contingent upon anything is contrary to salvation by grace.

Read the two verses you missed before Rom 8:7-8

Salvation is by grace through faith Eph 2:8