THE RAPTURE

[PlainWord]

I am fine with you having your view on it. But it won't change my view that He will come for me without any sign at all, before I can blink my eye.

When He comes, He will come just like you say. But He comes after Israel is attacked and nearly destroyed. You will see this happen soon.

The problem most have is they think the Great Tribulation is the Wrath of God poured out on the entire planet. It isn't. And since we aren't appointed to wrath, we must be raptured. However, the Great Tribulation is the all out attack on Israel by Islamic forces to her north. God's wrath comes in response and only against the Islamic beast in her 1/4 of the world. Therefore there is no need to be flown off the planet to avoid it. Instead, those who live in the region in and around Israel are to flee to escape God's wrath.

GREAT TRIBULATION = ISRAEL
GOD'S WRATH = AGAINST MUSLIM INVADERS IN AND AROUND ISRAEL

The AntiChrist dies at the end of Daniel 11. The resurrection happens in Daniel 12 and the rapture is after that since we know the resurrection comes before the rapture.

 

[popeye]

We won't have long to wait. I think President Erdogan could be the Man of Sin, AKA AntiChrist, AKA King of the North who unites the Muslim world and attacks Israel. She already has nukes. Mecca will get nuked by some Muslim force from the north, there is no doubt about it. Turkey will re-establish the Ottoman Empire. This is the beast with the mortal wound, yet lives again. We are seeing it happen right before our eyes.

The Great Tribulation, of Israel, I believe will begin within 2-4 years from today. Once it starts, your pre-trib theory goes out the window good buddy. . In the meantime, don't go with any spiritual being claiming to be sent from Jesus to take you to the "rapture." Don't be deceived. I won't have anyone to chat with.

OK,

GOD BLESS YOU FRIEND.

 

[working4christ2]

1Cor.15? What is that actually talking about. I believe it will be the time of the gathering of Gods people. We will meet Christ in the air and then its off to Jerusalem to the kingdom rest. What do you believe and why?

Raping the “Rapture” biblically…is it really God’s tuth?
RELIGION MAY 05, 2015
Sorry, "Left Behind" Fans, "The Rapture" Is Not in the Bible
In fact, if anyone's getting beamed up, it's not the good guys

JOHN MARTIGNONI (9)
[TABLE="width: 149, align: right"]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE="width: 0"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Share
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD][TABLE="width: 0"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Tweet
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD][TABLE="width: 0"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Post
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD][TABLE="width: 0"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD][TABLE="width: 0"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


[TABLE="width: 0"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Question: A friend of mine has been reading the Left Behind books that have all of this stuff about the “Rapture” in them. Is there really going to be a “Rapture” like these books talk about?

Answer: No.The “Rapture” refers to a passage in First Thessalonians 4, where Christians are “caught up” in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.” Many Christians believe, and the Left Behind books promote, that this being “caught up” to meet the Lord will occur before the Great Tribulation sometime in the near future. Christians will simply vanish, meet Jesus somewhere in the air, and then return with Him to Heaven to await the end of time.

But notice, in verse 15, Paul says that “...we who are alive, who are left,” shall be caught up. This is a very important point to stress to rapture enthusiasts. Those who are “left” get caught up to meet the Lord. Keep that in mind as we look at these next couple of Scripture passages.

The Left Behind books get their name from a passage in Luke 17, and a similar passage in Matthew 24, which compares the coming of the Lord to the days of Noah and the days of Lot. Matthew 24 puts it this way: “As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of man...[they ate, they drank, they married] and they did not know until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of man. Then two men will be in the field, one is taken and one is left. Two women grinding at the mill, one is taken one is left.”

“One is taken, one is left” — the Rapture right? Jesus takes the Christians and leaves behind non-Christians!

That’s how rapture enthusiasts interpret these passages. Well, you need to say to them: “Not so fast, folks.” Two problems with the Protestant "Left Behind” interpretation: First, in the passages from Luke 17 and Matthew 24, Jesus’ coming is compared to the days of Noah and the days of Lot. Let’s think about that for a moment. After the flood, who was left? Noah and his family — the good guys. The bad guys were taken and the good guys were left behind! After Sodom and Gomorrah went up in smoke, who was left? Lot and his daughters — the good guys. The bad guys were taken and the good guys were left behind!

The second problem with the “Left Behind” interpretation, has to do with what I mentioned above: 1 Thessalonians 4 says that those who are “left” get to meet Jesus in the air. You want to be left behind. Why? Because those who are left behind get to meet Jesus on His return to earth. Again, when you put 1 Thessalonians 4 together with Matthew 24 and Luke 17, it becomes quite apparent that the good guys are the ones left behind to meet Jesus.

And, if you need further proof of that, there’s a passage in Matthew 13 that pretty much seals the deal. Matthew 13:39-43, “...and the enemy who sowed them [the bad seed] is the devil; the harvest is the close of the age, and the reapers are angels. Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the close of the age. The Son of man will send His angels and they will gather out of His kingdom all causes of sin and all evildoers, and throw them into the furnace of fire; there men will weep and gnash their teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father.”

So when Scripture says that “one is taken and one is left,” as it does in Luke 17 and Matthew 24, it is not talking about the Rapture, it is talking about the harvest at the close of the age. The ones who are taken, as it says in Matthew 13, are the evildoers. The angels have taken them and tossed them into the furnace of fire. So, the Left Behind books got it exactly 180 degrees wrong. The ones taken are not the good guys, they are the evildoers. The ones who are left behind are the ones who get to be caught up in the clouds to meet Jesus in the air at His Second Coming, when He will bring all of the angels and saints with Him and there will be a new Heaven and a new earth.

In other words, there will be no Rapture like the one the Left Behindbooks talk about. The Left Behind books teach the opposite of what Scripture actually says. END QUOTE


John Martignoni is a nationally-known Catholic apologist and Bible scholar. He is the Founder and President of the Bible Christian Society, where you can find lots of free apologetics materials — CD's, mp3 downloads, e-newsletters, and more, and host of EWTN’s “Open Line” airing on Mondays at 3 p.m. EST. He is also Director of the Office of the New Evangelization in the Diocese of Birmingham, Alabama.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

When He comes, He will come just like you say. But He comes after Israel is attacked and nearly destroyed. You will see this happen soon.

The problem most have is they think the Great Tribulation is the Wrath of God poured out on the entire planet. It isn't. And since we aren't appointed to wrath, we must be raptured. However, the Great Tribulation is the all out attack on Israel by Islamic forces to her north. God's wrath comes in response and only against the Islamic beast in her 1/4 of the world. Therefore there is no need to be flown off the planet to avoid it. Instead, those who live in the region in and around Israel are to flee to escape God's wrath.

GREAT TRIBULATION = ISRAEL
GOD'S WRATH = AGAINST MUSLIM INVADERS IN AND AROUND ISRAEL

The AntiChrist dies at the end of Daniel 11. The resurrection happens in Daniel 12 and the rapture is after that since we know the resurrection comes before the rapture.

That is not what I believe.
I understand that it is what you believe.

 

[popeye]

Raping the “Rapture” biblically…is it really God’s tuth?
RELIGION MAY 05, 2015
Sorry, "Left Behind" Fans, "The Rapture" Is Not in the Bible
In fact, if anyone's getting beamed up, it's not the good guys

JOHN MARTIGNONI (9)
[TABLE="width: 149, align: right"]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE="width: 0"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Share
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD][TABLE="width: 0"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Tweet
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD][TABLE="width: 0"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Post
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD][TABLE="width: 0"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD][TABLE="width: 0"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


[TABLE="width: 0"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Question: A friend of mine has been reading the Left Behind books that have all of this stuff about the “Rapture” in them. Is there really going to be a “Rapture” like these books talk about?

Answer: No.The “Rapture” refers to a passage in First Thessalonians 4, where Christians are “caught up” in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.” Many Christians believe, and the Left Behind books promote, that this being “caught up” to meet the Lord will occur before the Great Tribulation sometime in the near future. Christians will simply vanish, meet Jesus somewhere in the air, and then return with Him to Heaven to await the end of time.

But notice, in verse 15, Paul says that “...we who are alive, who are left,” shall be caught up. This is a very important point to stress to rapture enthusiasts. Those who are “left” get caught up to meet the Lord. Keep that in mind as we look at these next couple of Scripture passages.

The Left Behind books get their name from a passage in Luke 17, and a similar passage in Matthew 24, which compares the coming of the Lord to the days of Noah and the days of Lot. Matthew 24 puts it this way: “As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of man...[they ate, they drank, they married] and they did not know until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of man. Then two men will be in the field, one is taken and one is left. Two women grinding at the mill, one is taken one is left.”

“One is taken, one is left” — the Rapture right? Jesus takes the Christians and leaves behind non-Christians!

That’s how rapture enthusiasts interpret these passages. Well, you need to say to them: “Not so fast, folks.” Two problems with the Protestant "Left Behind” interpretation: First, in the passages from Luke 17 and Matthew 24, Jesus’ coming is compared to the days of Noah and the days of Lot. Let’s think about that for a moment. After the flood, who was left? Noah and his family — the good guys. The bad guys were taken and the good guys were left behind! After Sodom and Gomorrah went up in smoke, who was left? Lot and his daughters — the good guys. The bad guys were taken and the good guys were left behind!

The second problem with the “Left Behind” interpretation, has to do with what I mentioned above: 1 Thessalonians 4 says that those who are “left” get to meet Jesus in the air. You want to be left behind. Why? Because those who are left behind get to meet Jesus on His return to earth. Again, when you put 1 Thessalonians 4 together with Matthew 24 and Luke 17, it becomes quite apparent that the good guys are the ones left behind to meet Jesus.

And, if you need further proof of that, there’s a passage in Matthew 13 that pretty much seals the deal. Matthew 13:39-43, “...and the enemy who sowed them [the bad seed] is the devil; the harvest is the close of the age, and the reapers are angels. Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the close of the age. The Son of man will send His angels and they will gather out of His kingdom all causes of sin and all evildoers, and throw them into the furnace of fire; there men will weep and gnash their teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father.”

So when Scripture says that “one is taken and one is left,” as it does in Luke 17 and Matthew 24, it is not talking about the Rapture, it is talking about the harvest at the close of the age. The ones who are taken, as it says in Matthew 13, are the evildoers. The angels have taken them and tossed them into the furnace of fire. So, the Left Behind books got it exactly 180 degrees wrong. The ones taken are not the good guys, they are the evildoers. The ones who are left behind are the ones who get to be caught up in the clouds to meet Jesus in the air at His Second Coming, when He will bring all of the angels and saints with Him and there will be a new Heaven and a new earth.

In other words, there will be no Rapture like the one the Left Behindbooks talk about. The Left Behind books teach the opposite of what Scripture actually says. END QUOTE


John Martignoni is a nationally-known Catholic apologist and Bible scholar. He is the Founder and President of the Bible Christian Society, where you can find lots of free apologetics materials — CD's, mp3 downloads, e-newsletters, and more, and host of EWTN’s “Open Line” airing on Mondays at 3 p.m. EST. He is also Director of the Office of the New Evangelization in the Diocese of Birmingham, Alabama.

Nope,no traction whatsoever.

Tares are BURNED AS A GROUP.

When is that? AFTER THE MILLENNIUM.

"one taken" does not play out either

Your template demands the one taken to have a mark.
So,think real hard. Open your mind and tell me why. You tell me. Lets see you lay down that post trib workbook and take a real look.

The other thing is,THE FIRST RESURRECTION. That really destroys you guys deal.

Postrib rapture is an impossibility

 

[PlainWord]

That is not what I believe.
I understand that it is what you believe.

. I don't want to give up on you just yet because it is critically important. Let me show you one more thing.

[SUP]34 [/SUP]Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.

The above means that EVERYTHING Jesus tells us on the Mount of Olives will take place during one generation and I believe this generation is alive today. You believe that the "rapture" can happen at any moment, right? The "rapture" being the return of Jesus in the clouds.

The disciples ask Jesus their famous question:

“Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

The first sign Jesus gives is this!!!!

[SUP]4 [/SUP]And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.

So, the first sign of the end Jesus mentions is that there will be an event where MANY WILL COME CLAIMING TO BE JESUS and that MANY CHRISTIANS WILL BE DECEIVED. You think the next event on the prophetic calendar is the Rapture. Jesus tells us that the next prophetic event is the Great Deception of false christs.

The Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine is Satan's set up. He started the lie in 1830, the same generation where he introduced Evolution, the idea that there is no God. Enough time has passed to now pull his great deception. The Pre-Trib theory has become so widely accepted in the Church that if a spiritual being with great power (such as Satan's) appears claiming to be Christ, many, many Christians will be deceived. This is why 3 TIMES Christ warns us that false christs will come before He does!! When Jesus takes the time to tell us something 3 times, we had better take notice. This warning is for us!! Here are His warnings again!! Read them and take notice.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.

[SUP]11 [/SUP]Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.

[SUP]23 [/SUP]“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. [SUP]24 [/SUP]For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive...

This is how the great deception of Christians will go down. Don't be among the deceived because those who are deceived are killed and end up as the Great Multitude in Heaven (Rev 7).

When Jesus comes, He comes like a flash of lightening. We won't have time to be told anything or shown any "wonders."

[SUP]27 [/SUP]For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

This might sound obvious but you will be surprised how many of the 2.2 Billion (not so smart Luke Warm) Christians will fall for Satan's trick. When it happens and all the "green grass and a third of the trees" are burned up, we Christians left will be such a minority on the planet and will be totally at the mercy of Satan's followers, his courts, his governments, etc. Forget the law and our Constitutional protections. Our own children and family members will be turning us in. There will be bounties on our heads.

[SUP]12 [/SUP]Now brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death.

This isn't a joke. Christ's warnings are for some "tribulation era saint," a concept that is not found. Christ's warnings are for us. This is why Jesus was so adamant and repeated His warning 3 times!! He tells us clearly when He returns, which is after the Great Tribulation (of Israel). He never tells us that He comes before this, or in addition to this. Be among those of us not fooled.

But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

If you want to see the real RAPTURE, you need to endure to the end. Can you see this now???

 

[popeye]

. I don't want to give up on you just yet because it is critically important. Let me show you one more thing.

[SUP]34 [/SUP]Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.

The above means that EVERYTHING Jesus tells us on the Mount of Olives will take place during one generation and I believe this generation is alive today. You believe that the "rapture" can happen at any moment, right? The "rapture" being the return of Jesus in the clouds.

The disciples ask Jesus their famous question:

“Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

The first sign Jesus gives is this!!!!

[SUP]4 [/SUP]And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.

So, the first sign of the end Jesus mentions is that there will be an event where MANY WILL COME CLAIMING TO BE JESUS and that MANY CHRISTIANS WILL BE DECEIVED. You think the next event on the prophetic calendar is the Rapture. Jesus tells us that the next prophetic event is the Great Deception of false christs.

The Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine is Satan's set up. He started the lie in 1830, the same generation where he introduced Evolution, the idea that there is no God. Enough time has passed to now pull his great deception. The Pre-Trib theory has become so widely accepted in the Church that if a spiritual being with great power (such as Satan's) appears claiming to be Christ, many, many Christians will be deceived. This is why 3 TIMES Christ warns us that false christs will come before He does!! When Jesus takes the time to tell us something 3 times, we had better take notice. This warning is for us!! Here are His warnings again!! Read them and take notice.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.

[SUP]11 [/SUP]Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.

[SUP]23 [/SUP]“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. [SUP]24 [/SUP]For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive...

This is how the great deception of Christians will go down. Don't be among the deceived because those who are deceived are killed and end up as the Great Multitude in Heaven (Rev 7).

When Jesus comes, He comes like a flash of lightening. We won't have time to be told anything or shown any "wonders."

[SUP]27 [/SUP]For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

This might sound obvious but you will be surprised how many of the 2.2 Billion (not so smart Luke Warm) Christians will fall for Satan's trick. When it happens and all the "green grass and a third of the trees" are burned up, we Christians left will be such a minority on the planet and will be totally at the mercy of Satan's followers, his courts, his governments, etc. Forget the law and our Constitutional protections. Our own children and family members will be turning us in. There will be bounties on our heads.

[SUP]12 [/SUP]Now brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death.

This isn't a joke. Christ's warnings are for some "tribulation era saint," a concept that is not found. Christ's warnings are for us. This is why Jesus was so adamant and repeated His warning 3 times!! He tells us clearly when He returns, which is after the Great Tribulation (of Israel). He never tells us that He comes before this, or in addition to this. Be among those of us not fooled.

But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

If you want to see the real RAPTURE, you need to endure to the end. Can you see this now???

Except it says the dead rise first.

That takes all plausible away from everything but a pretrib rapture.

The gathering in rev 14.

That would make a postrib resurrection confuse Jesus words.

Maybe he misspoke?

He possibly meant to say" the dead rise second"?

 

[RobbyEarl]

Post trib makes no sense, Mid trib maybe but then you could count the days. Just like Daniel did even calling out Cyrus. Jesus said I come as a thief in the night, if you know when the thief is coming you would have your shotgun ready or you would be ready and waiting for the thief. I would rather be waiting and ready.

 

[RickyZ]

I don't get why this is so hard to settle. God REPEATEDLY says we will see judgment but not His wrath. The events of the trumpets and seals are called judgments, the events of the bowls are called wrath. We will see the events of the seals and trumpets, but not the events of the bowls.

It's amazing how 2 + 2 will never = 4 in some people's worlds.

 

[popeye]

I don't get why this is so hard to settle. God REPEATEDLY says we will see judgment but not His wrath. The events of the trumpets and seals are called judgments, the events of the bowls are called wrath. We will see the events of the seals and trumpets, but not the events of the bowls.

It's amazing how 2 + 2 will never = 4 in some people's worlds.

Non issue,but you make it a cornerstone.

Is the LOF wrath,or judgement?

Was the destruction of Sodom wrath,or judgement?

Was the flood wrath,or judgement?

The AC kills every single human on the planet refusing the mark,and what,one third of mankind killed by the apocalypse horsemen?

But that is minor judgement,and not wrath?

That wrath/judgement component exists to sell an argument.

 

[RickyZ]

The destruction of Sodom was a judgment. Lot and his wife were not taken away from it, but told how to survive it. His wife disobeyed and was punished for it.

The flood was a judgment. Noah was not taken away but told how to survive it. Noah obeyed and survived.

LOF ... remind me what that was.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

. I don't want to give up on you just yet because it is critically important. Let me show you one more thing.

[SUP]34 [/SUP]Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.

The above means that EVERYTHING Jesus tells us on the Mount of Olives will take place during one generation and I believe this generation is alive today. You believe that the "rapture" can happen at any moment, right? The "rapture" being the return of Jesus in the clouds.

The disciples ask Jesus their famous question:

“Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

The first sign Jesus gives is this!!!!

[SUP]4 [/SUP]And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.

So, the first sign of the end Jesus mentions is that there will be an event where MANY WILL COME CLAIMING TO BE JESUS and that MANY CHRISTIANS WILL BE DECEIVED. You think the next event on the prophetic calendar is the Rapture. Jesus tells us that the next prophetic event is the Great Deception of false christs.

The Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine is Satan's set up. He started the lie in 1830, the same generation where he introduced Evolution, the idea that there is no God. Enough time has passed to now pull his great deception. The Pre-Trib theory has become so widely accepted in the Church that if a spiritual being with great power (such as Satan's) appears claiming to be Christ, many, many Christians will be deceived. This is why 3 TIMES Christ warns us that false christs will come before He does!! When Jesus takes the time to tell us something 3 times, we had better take notice. This warning is for us!! Here are His warnings again!! Read them and take notice.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.

[SUP]11 [/SUP]Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.

[SUP]23 [/SUP]“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. [SUP]24 [/SUP]For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive...

This is how the great deception of Christians will go down. Don't be among the deceived because those who are deceived are killed and end up as the Great Multitude in Heaven (Rev 7).

When Jesus comes, He comes like a flash of lightening. We won't have time to be told anything or shown any "wonders."

[SUP]27 [/SUP]For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

This might sound obvious but you will be surprised how many of the 2.2 Billion (not so smart Luke Warm) Christians will fall for Satan's trick. When it happens and all the "green grass and a third of the trees" are burned up, we Christians left will be such a minority on the planet and will be totally at the mercy of Satan's followers, his courts, his governments, etc. Forget the law and our Constitutional protections. Our own children and family members will be turning us in. There will be bounties on our heads.

[SUP]12 [/SUP]Now brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death.

This isn't a joke. Christ's warnings are for some "tribulation era saint," a concept that is not found. Christ's warnings are for us. This is why Jesus was so adamant and repeated His warning 3 times!! He tells us clearly when He returns, which is after the Great Tribulation (of Israel). He never tells us that He comes before this, or in addition to this. Be among those of us not fooled.

But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

If you want to see the real RAPTURE, you need to endure to the end. Can you see this now???

Those who are deceived that there is a gathering together prior to His wrath are the deceived that will be killed...?
I have to have misunderstood you here, you can't possibly mean what I think you said...

I appreciate that you aren't willing to give up on me yet.
I am going to keep on praying that I will be found worthy to escape that time of testing coming on the whole world.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Post trib makes no sense, Mid trib maybe but then you could count the days. Just like Daniel did even calling out Cyrus. Jesus said I come as a thief in the night, if you know when the thief is coming you would have your shotgun ready or you would be ready and waiting for the thief. I would rather be waiting and ready.

I agree - even mid-trib gathering together at least makes some sense. I think our gathering together is before that but at least it doesn't appear completely incomprehensible to me why someone could see it that way.

 

[RickyZ]

I agree - even mid-trib gathering together at least makes some sense. I think our gathering together is before that but at least it doesn't appear completely incomprehensible to me why someone could see it that way.

Wow... an open mind. Where the heck did you come from?

 

[popeye]

The destruction of Sodom was a judgment. Lot and his wife were not taken away from it, but told how to survive it. His wife disobeyed and was punished for it.

The flood was a judgment. Noah was not taken away but told how to survive it. Noah obeyed and survived.

LOF ... remind me what that was.

Lake of fire


Why are some labeled judgement,some labeled wrath?

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Obviously, God made a judgement and it wasn't a good one, for sure, because burning stuff fell out of the sky and killed everyone, which was the wrath of God AFTER He made His judgement.

It is incomprehensible to me to say that God rained down that destruction and they all died, and then to say that it had nothing to do with wrath...

 

[garee]

I don't want to give up on you just yet because it is critically important. Let me show you one more thing.

34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.
This generation is the generation of Adam as in natural man. It is also called the last days on this side of “it is finished” the beginning of the reformation.

The above means that EVERYTHING Jesus tells us on the Mount of Olives will take place during one generation and I believe this generation is alive today. You believe that the "rapture" can happen at any moment, right? The "rapture" being the return of Jesus in the clouds.

The disciples ask Jesus their famous question:

“Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

The first sign Jesus gives is this!!!!

4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.

There will be no new signs. He will come as a thief in the night. Christ said it’s an evil generation (natural man) that looks for a sign .The last one in respect to the sign of Jonah has come and gone.

Believers look to prophecy not signs .Signs are designed for the rebellious, the generation of natural man without the Spirit of Christ.

Supernatural God who remains without a beginning still has no form . He is not part of the creation but is the invisible faithful Creator.

God is not a man as us and neither is there or will there ever be a daysman, pertaining to the flesh, as an infallible being that stands between God not seen, and man seen.

When he comes as the power of the Spirit it will be the last days. In the twinkling of the eye all will be changed . The whole corrupted creation moans in expectation of our new bodies which no one knows what kind they will be. What we do know is they will not be flesh and blood.

Some do look for a man to come. The anischrist called the man of sin will take advantage of that. Satan is not a man but works to influence men to do the pleasure of his will rather than that of God . He is the god of this world .

 

[garee]

I don't want to give up on you just yet because it is critically important. Let me show you one more thing.

34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.
This generation is the generation of Adam as in natural man. It is also called the last days on this side of “it is finished” the beginning of the reformation.

The above means that EVERYTHING Jesus tells us on the Mount of Olives will take place during one generation and I believe this generation is alive today. You believe that the "rapture" can happen at any moment, right? The "rapture" being the return of Jesus in the clouds.

The disciples ask Jesus their famous question:

“Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

The first sign Jesus gives is this!!!!

4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.

There will be no new signs. He will come as a thief in the night. Christ said it’s an evil generation (natural man) that looks for a sign .The last one in respect to the sign of Jonah has come and gone.

Believers look to prophecy not signs .Signs are designed for the rebellious, the generation of natural man without the Spirit of Christ.

Supernatural God who remains without a beginning still has no form . He is not part of the creation but is the invisible faithful Creator.

God is not a man as us and neither is there or will there ever be a daysman, pertaining to the flesh, as an infallible being that stands between God not seen, and man seen.

When he comes as the power of the Spirit it will be the last days. In the twinkling of the eye all will be changed . The whole corrupted creation moans in expectation of our new bodies which no one knows what kind they will be. What we do know is they will not be flesh and blood.

Some do look for a man to come. The antichrist called the man of sin will take advantage of that. Satan is not a man but works to influence men to do the pleasure of his will rather than that of God . He is the god of this world .

 

[RickyZ]

Lake of fire


Why are some labeled judgement,some labeled wrath?

Judgment is a legal action, allowing one to 'reap what they have sown'. It is an act of accountability, and a measured response

Judgment says you had your day in court. Wrath allows you no defense.

Wrath is an emotion. While judgment may be restrained wrath is not. It is poured out in overwhelming measure.

Judgment sates justice. Wrath sates anger.

Since we are accountable to God we will see His judgment. Since God loves us, we will not see the anger of His wrath.

 

[popeye]

Judgment is a legal action, allowing one to 'reap what they have sown'. It is an act of accountability, and a measured response

Judgment says you had your day in court. Wrath allows you no defense.

Wrath is an emotion. While judgment may be restrained wrath is not. It is poured out in overwhelming measure.

Judgment sates justice. Wrath sates anger.

Since we are accountable to God we will see His judgment. Since God loves us, we will not see the anger of His wrath.

Now go back and look at my examples.

You think God was happy when he destroyed the world? Sodom?

Jerusalem?