The Rapture Event

[studentoftheword]

Yes, those who claim Christ's Coming and the Rapture of the Church are "imminent" events, taking place at "any time," appear to fail to recognize 2 very important things that Jesus said must *precede* them!
1) The Gospel of the Kingdom must be preached to all the world.
2) The Jewish Diaspora must take place.

These things are said, by some, to have been completed in the Early Church. But obviously, they did not. Some think that these things cannot be viewed as *preceding* the Rapture because we cannot know when they are actually completed. But Jesus seemed to actually be teaching that they must *precede* Christ's Coming with the clouds.

Some, like D. Watermark, view Christ's Coming with the clouds as *separate from the Rapture,* and therefore fulfilling what Jesus said about his Coming *following* these 2 things. That makes sense--I just don't accept it because I see no reason to separate the Rapture of the Church from Christ's Coming with the clouds. You have to make up your own mind.

OH My -----this statement you make here is so off the mark -----

appear to fail to recognize 2 very important things that Jesus said must *precede* them!
1) The Gospel of the Kingdom must be preached to all the world.
2) The Jewish Diaspora must take place.

The Scattering of Israel has already happened ------before the tribulation begins the 12 Tribes of Israel are brought together the 144.000 and it is the 12 tribes that God marks with His Seal to honor His Covenant with His Chosen Nation and it is the 12 Tribes the 144,000 that preach the Gospel to all the world ---along with the 2 witnesses ----God saves His Jewish Nation and they are protected from harm during the whole 7 years of God's Wrath

What does the Bible say about the scattering of the Jews?

It was prophesied that Israel would be scattered among the nations of the earth because of the people's wickedness (see Leviticus 26:33; Deuteronomy 4:23–27; 28:25, 37, 64; 1 Nephi 10:12–13; 21:1; 22:3–4). The scattering began when the Assyrians carried the ten tribes away into captivity (see 2 Kings 15:29; 17:6).


Revelation 7

New International Version
144,000 Sealed7
After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree.

2 Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea:

3 “Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.” 4 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.
5 From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,

from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,

from the tribe of Gad 12,000,

6 from the tribe of Asher 12,000,

from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,

from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,

7 from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,

from the tribe of Levi 12,000,

from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,

8 from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,

from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,

from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.


David Jeremiah Blog
https://davidjeremiah.blog › the-144000-in-the-book-of
Who Are the 144000 in the Book of Revelation?

David Jeremiah Blog
https://davidjeremiah.blog › the-144000-in-the-book-of-...
Mission: They will preach the Gospel and lead many to Christ – Revelation 7:9-10 ... 144,000 will devote their hearts and souls to preaching the Gospel.


So again you need ro do some serious research on the Rapture and what God's plan really is for the end of this earth and unbelievers -----

Oh and by the way ----The Rapture happens like a thief in the night -----there is no fan far --no Trumpet or sound for the Rapture ---He appears on a cloud and gathers the dead first then the living go to meet him in the air ----this happens in the twinkling of an eye ----

No, unbelievers do not see Jesus at the rapture:

• The rapture is a secret event: Only those who are saved will see Jesus at the rapture.
  
  
• The rapture is very quick: The rapture will happen so fast that unbelievers will not be able to see what exactly happened.
  

The rapture is described in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17.


The Second coming and really it is the 3rd coming as Jesus was already here in the Flesh ----then He comes to get His Church on a cloud no sound that he is coming He just appears and then He comes back again with His Saints and defeats Satan and sets up His new earth ----

 

[randyk]

Jesus

“Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is. For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.

“Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭13:35-37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul

“But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. ( you never know when a thief is going to break in is the idea could be tonight) For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭5:1-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭5:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Peter

“This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: that ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

…but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

(He isn’t slow as some presume in coming it’s that he’s giving mankind every opportunity to repent because his Will is that no one perishes but comes to repentance and life )

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; ( suddenly and without any bivouac warning ) in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:1-4, 7-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the Bible seems to be consistant that it’s going to happen like a thief breaking in so we want to live every day being ready and watching

The "thief" metaphor is designed for the ungodly, to get them to repent. Once they repent they need not worry that he's coming "like a thief." We "watch" not out of expectation that he could come at any minute, but only in the sense that we keep our eyes fixed on Jesus and on his righteousness, so that we don't relapse into becoming like the wicked who are unprepared for the coming of the Kingdom.

1 Thes 5.4 But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. 5 You are all children of the light and children of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness. 6 So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be awake and sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, get drunk at night. 8 But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet.

We look to Jesus, and watch for him, because he represents a pattern after which we can determine to be like him.

Heb 2.9 But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor...

Col 3.2 Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things.

1 Tim 1.9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers,...

The way we remain ready for Jesus' Coming is not by gazing with the eyes, but rather, by seeing with faith, and deteremining to not just hear him, but more, obey him and his word.

Matt 24.45 “Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46 It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. "

1 John 2.3 We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. 4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.

 

[randyk]

OH My -----this statement you make here is so off the mark -----

appear to fail to recognize 2 very important things that Jesus said must *precede* them!
1) The Gospel of the Kingdom must be preached to all the world.
2) The Jewish Diaspora must take place.

The Scattering of Israel has already happened ------before the tribulation begins the 12 Tribes of Israel are brought together the 144.000 and it is the 12 tribes that God marks with His Seal to honor His Covenant with His Chosen Nation and it is the 12 Tribes the 144,000 that preach the Gospel to all the world ---along with the 2 witnesses ----God saves His Jewish Nation and they are protected from harm during the whole 7 years of God's Wrath

What does the Bible say about the scattering of the Jews?

It was prophesied that Israel would be scattered among the nations of the earth because of the people's wickedness (see Leviticus 26:33; Deuteronomy 4:23–27; 28:25, 37, 64; 1 Nephi 10:12–13; 21:1; 22:3–4). The scattering began when the Assyrians carried the ten tribes away into captivity (see 2 Kings 15:29; 17:6).

Revelation 7

New International Version
144,000 Sealed7
After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree.

2 Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea:

3 “Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.” 4 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.
5 From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,

from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,

from the tribe of Gad 12,000,

6 from the tribe of Asher 12,000,

from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,

from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,

7 from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,

from the tribe of Levi 12,000,

from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,

8 from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,

from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,

from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.

David Jeremiah Blog
https://davidjeremiah.blog › the-144000-in-the-book-of
Who Are the 144000 in the Book of Revelation?
View attachment 270892
David Jeremiah Blog
https://davidjeremiah.blog › the-144000-in-the-book-of-...
Mission: They will preach the Gospel and lead many to Christ – Revelation 7:9-10 ... 144,000 will devote their hearts and souls to preaching the Gospel.


So again you need ro do some serious research on the Rapture and what God's plan really is for the end of this earth and unbelievers -----

Oh and by the way ----The Rapture happens like a thief in the night -----there is no fan far --no Trumpet or sound for the Rapture ---He appears on a cloud and gathers the dead first then the living go to meet him in the air ----this happens in the twinkling of an eye ----

No, unbelievers do not see Jesus at the rapture:

• The rapture is a secret event: Only those who are saved will see Jesus at the rapture.
  
  
• The rapture is very quick: The rapture will happen so fast that unbelievers will not be able to see what exactly happened.

The rapture is described in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17.


The Second coming and really it is the 3rd coming as Jesus was already here in the Flesh ----then He comes to get His Church on a cloud no sound that he is coming He just appears and then He comes back again with His Saints and defeats Satan and sets up His new earth ----

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The "thief" metaphor is designed for the ungodly, to get them to repent. Once they repent they need not worry that he's coming "like a thief." We "watch" not out of expectation that he could come at any minute, but only in the sense that we keep our eyes fixed on Jesus and on his righteousness, so that we don't relapse into becoming like the wicked who are unprepared for the coming of the Kingdom.

1 Thes 5.4 But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. 5 You are all children of the light and children of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness. 6 So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be awake and sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, get drunk at night. 8 But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet.

We look to Jesus, and watch for him, because he represents a pattern after which we can determine to be like him.

Heb 2.9 But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor...

Col 3.2 Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things.

1 Tim 1.9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers,...

The way we remain ready for Jesus' Coming is not by gazing with the eyes, but rather, by seeing with faith, and deteremining to not just hear him, but more, obey him and his word.

Matt 24.45 “Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46 It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. "

1 John 2.3 We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. 4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.

“The "thief" metaphor is designed for the ungodly, to get them to repent. “

You should read the gospel more to know where Paul and peters language comes from

“Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his Lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his Lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My Lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; the Lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, and shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:42-51‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭5:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Not talking to the “ ungodly “ but preparing the church

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.


Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

his promises are missed by folks who avoid his word

 

[randyk]

All rapture verses are pretrib, commerce, normal life.
There are Not any postrib rapture verses.
So, you used to be correct, and biblical.
Now you are not.

“The "thief" metaphor is designed for the ungodly, to get them to repent. “

You should read the gospel more to know where Paul and peters language comes from

“Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his Lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his Lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My Lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; the Lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, and shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:42-51‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭5:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Not talking to the “ ungodly “ but preparing the church

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.


Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

his promises are missed by folks who avoid his word

I don't know of any place where Jesus said he could return "at any time." Do you?
I don't know of any place in the NT Bible, or in the OT Bible where we are told the Son of Man can return "at any moment." Do you?

This isn't a matter of "knowing the Bible." I know it as well as you do. Rather, it's a matter of how we interpret the Bible. There are good Christians on all sides of the "Rapture Discussion."

 

[randyk]

OH My -----this statement you make here is so off the mark -----

appear to fail to recognize 2 very important things that Jesus said must *precede* them!
1) The Gospel of the Kingdom must be preached to all the world.
2) The Jewish Diaspora must take place.

Not really.
Jesus, in his Olivet Discourse, indicated that the end will come *after* the preaching of the Gospel to all nations, and that the Son of Man will come *after* the tribulation of the Jewish Diaspora.

Matt 24.14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come...
29 “Immediately after the distress of those days...
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven.

Luke 21.24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I don't know of any place where Jesus said he could return "at any time." Do you?
I don't know of any place in the NT Bible, or in the OT Bible where we are told the Son of Man can return "at any moment." Do you?

This isn't a matter of "knowing the Bible." I know it as well as you do. Rather, it's a matter of how we interpret the Bible. There are good Christians on all sides of the "Rapture Discussion."

A thief comes at anytime . If you aren’t ready for him your house will be robbed is the idea .

No one knows when Jesus will return
It’s just part of the doctrine to live being ready. Like in that teaching he gave about the thief and how no one knows when he’s coming.

besides all that the kingdom is within you by of us could die tomorrow from some accident or health issue . We don’t o own when we have to go either for generations Christians have lived believing jesus could come back in thier lifetime . The doctrine is designed that way to keep people from complacency

we were all ungodly it’s why Jesus had to suffer and die to save us

“For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the whole idea that there’s a group that can’t be saved and another that will be saved regardless isnt sound at all we’ve all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God he came to deal with the sin problem that kills mankind

 

[randyk]

Oh and by the way ----The Rapture happens like a thief in the night -----there is no fan far --no Trumpet or sound for the Rapture ---He appears on a cloud and gathers the dead first then the living go to meet him in the air ----this happens in the twinkling of an eye ----

No, unbelievers do not see Jesus at the rapture:

• The rapture is a secret event: Only those who are saved will see Jesus at the rapture.
  
  
• The rapture is very quick: The rapture will happen so fast that unbelievers will not be able to see what exactly happened.

The rapture is described in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17.


The Second coming and really it is the 3rd coming as Jesus was already here in the Flesh ----then He comes to get His Church on a cloud no sound that he is coming He just appears and then He comes back again with His Saints and defeats Satan and sets up His new earth ----

I disagree. I quoted 1 Thes 5 where the wicked are warned that Jesus will come like a "thief in the night." We know that because Paul said that this warning was not for the saints who are obedient.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

No one knows when Jesus will return

Jesus said that nearly 2000 years ago. The Revelation has been published since then. God does nothing that he first doesn't tell his servants the prophets.

 

[randyk]

A thief comes at anytime . If you aren’t ready for him your house will be robbed is the idea .

No one knows when Jesus will return
It’s just part of the doctrine to live being ready. Like in that teaching he gave about the thief and how no one knows when he’s coming.

besides all that the kingdom is within you by of us could die tomorrow from some accident or health issue . We don’t o own when we have to go either for generations Christians have lived believing jesus could come back in thier lifetime . The doctrine is designed that way to keep people from complacency

we were all ungodly it’s why Jesus had to suffer and die to save us

“For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the whole idea that there’s a group that can’t be saved and another that will be saved regardless isnt sound at all we’ve all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God he came to deal with the sin problem that kills mankind

Some I agree with, and some I don't. As I've said elsewhere, Jesus does not come "as a thief" to believers who are walking with the Lord. They already see Jesus with the eyes of faith, and "set their minds on things above."

Yes, we can die on any day, and we should be prepared at all times. This is not the same thing as thinking Jesus' eschatological Coming can take place on any day.

And it is not the same thing to say that Christians don't know the exact calendar day Jesus wilil return and saying he could come on any day in history! Clearly, the book of Revelation describes the endtimes so that Christians can prepare to be morally and spiritually ready in hard times, whether that happens sometime in history or in the last times.

But nowhere in the Scriptures are we told that Jesus can return at any time in history, ie on any day. Rather, we are told that the Son of Man will come with the clouds on the last day, to rescue the saints, to defeat the Antichrist, and to establish God's Kingdom on the earth. All NT eschatology is consistent with this message, which is what was originally stated in Dan 7.

 

[randyk]

“The "thief" metaphor is designed for the ungodly, to get them to repent. “

You should read the gospel more to know where Paul and peters language comes from

“Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his Lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his Lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My Lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; the Lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, and shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:42-51‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭5:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Not talking to the “ ungodly “ but preparing the church

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.


Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

his promises are missed by folks who avoid his word

Keep in mind that Jesus, when he was warning Israel about his Coming, was speaking to a nation that was in the thralls of backsliding. Many had turned away from the Lord, and Jesus was dutifully warning them about the consequences of their rebellion against the Lord.

So he would come "suddenly" to the wicked while they were engaged in ungodliness. He would not come as such for the godly.

On the other hand, it is clear that not even the godly know the exact date of Christ's Return. But we are told that he is coming with the clouds to defeat the Antichrist. So we should expect Antichrist to be revealed 1st so that he is destroyed when Jesus returns for his Church.

2 Thes 2.Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God. ...
8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.

We are not given exact calendar dates and timing schemes precisely so that we live by our conscience and our circumstances, and not by prognostications. As an example, you don't invest money by going to a soothsayer, but rather, by reading the circumstances of your times with the knowledge you have within.

And so, we live by the Spirit in difficult times, but do not have to plan in advance for every occasion, although sometimes the prophets will appear and give us some warning. We know that Christ will come to bring in the Kingdom. In the meantime we know how to live for the Kingdom, and must meet each condition set before us.

 

[studentoftheword]

I disagree. I quoted 1 Thes 5 where the wicked are warned that Jesus will come like a "thief in the night." We know that because Paul said that this warning was not for the saints who are obedient.

randyk----this subject your talking about is way above your pay grade ---you are not there in your Faith walk to have the understanding of this subject and your spouting wrong understanding -----

You just think your idea is right ---but it is not --we are to rightly divide the Word of God ---and your wrongly dividing the Word as I have pointed out to you with scripture -----

Note >You are one of these people who don't want to get the truth of Scripture ---you just want to make scripture say what you want it to say -------and make your belief right--your more interested in being RIGHT than you are seeking Truth from the Scripture -----

so good luck with your wrong belief about the time of the Rapture and the 2nd coming -----

1 Thessalonian 5 ----about the thief in the night ----this is talking about the Saints beings ready for the -the immanent coming of Jesus for His Church -----the Rapture ---being Rapture Ready =====

Berean Study Bible
like a thief in the night
This simile is a vivid illustration of the unexpected and sudden nature of the Lord's coming.

The imagery here is meant to convey the element of surprise and the need for vigilance. Jesus Himself used similar language in the Gospels (e.g., Matthew 24:43), reinforcing the idea that believers must always be prepared, living in a state of spiritual alertness and moral integrity. This phrase serves as a call to readiness, urging Christians to live faithfully and expectantly, knowing that the Lord's return could happen at any moment.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Jesus said that nearly 2000 years ago. The Revelation has been published since then. God does nothing that he first doesn't tell his servants the prophets.

So people do know when Jesus is returning ? We might as well toss the biblical doctrine concerning it out I suppose

Jesus the lord

“And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.

Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭12:39-40‬ ‭

“Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:42-44‬ ‭

The apostle Paul
“But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭5:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The apostle Peter

“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

But you say it’s old news so

“As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; and shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13:40-43‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Those end of the world Jesus is coming on this date because I “read the signs “ never works out even now there’s no one on earth who o owe when Jesus is going to return like in Noah’s day

Just another day the world turns those who aren’t ready should get ready as the lord and his apostles taught continuously in the word

“But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:36-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we aren’t going to know people have felt it for centuries but that’s the doctrine it’s meant to press us forward into obedience and to take this seriously could be tonight could be a thousand years from now but we only have a few years to live and reach out and find the lord before it’s too late the end is only going to effect the final generation we need to look at our life here as the time we have d it frankly could end anytime

“and hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; that they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭17:26-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God is being patient not wanting anyone to perish we are on his time and we know not the timing of it

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

So people do know when Jesus is returning ? We might as well toss the biblical doctrine concerning it out I suppose

We know he will return on the day of trumpets. That is a given in order to fulfill that type just as Passover, unleavened bread, first fruits, pentecost and the day of atonement have been and are being fulfilled. We know when the trumpets begin to sound there will be approximately 4 years left. The two witnesses will most definitely know. So yes, there will be people who know.

 

[BobCarabbio]

Matt 24.29 Immediately after the distress of those days
‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

I mean no offence to my brothers who are Dispensational and Pretribulational, because that is what I once was, as well, and that is the position of my church. But I have to advance what I believe--not what others believe.

So respectfully, I do not see an imminent Rapture here, ie belief that Christ could come "at any time." I do not see Jesus calling upon us to expect him imminently, that we should continually expect that he can come at any moment.

Rather, I see here Jesus put our gaze on a future event that will end the present age, when he will come again to gather up, through his angels, his people who have been waiting for him and living for him. We are called to look for him, and in this way curb our ungodly ways and determine to live godly lives in expectation that he will judge the whole world by his righteousness.

Our anticipation of his coming, therefore, determines how we live. And this is to be the kind of expectation we are to have, even as we await his coming to terminate the present ungodly age.

It is said that in the above reference there is no evidence of a "Rapture" event. Well, that may be because the Bible does not refer to Christ's Coming, to gather his saints, as a "Rapture." Rather, it is here referred to as a gathering by angels at the sound of a trumpet.

On the other hand, Paul describes this event as a "Rapture," not calling the event that name, but describing it as such. When we are gathered, we do not rise of our own accord, but are rather, "seized" by angels, to deliver us by the powers of heaven, and not by our own strength or ability.

So we may call it a "Rapture" if we like because that is how it is so described. But the event is called, biblically, as a gathering of saints, when the Son of Man returns from heaven with the clouds.

And where does this teaching come from? It comes from Daniel 7, where the Son of Man is said to have conferred with God his Father in heaven, receiving the mandate that will destroy the Antichrist and establish God's Kingdom on earth. In that place we are told that the Son of Man will come to earth, defeat the Little Horn, and deliver the saints from his abuses. In my view this is not an imminent event to be expected, but rather, the ultimate result of our waiting for it.

So how are we to relate this "gathering of the saints" to what Paul described as a "Rapture" in 1 Thes 4? At the time Jesus said this he was still under the Law and addressing only Israel. The "saints" he addressed at that time were Jewish believers, and not the international Church, though later this lesson can be applied to us all.

So Jesus was describing the future history of Israel, as only a remnant would be saved, and the many would be scattered across the earth in the Jewish Diaspora. Israel's national salvation would take place only after the return of the Son of Man.

And so, Jesus described this ultimate salvation of the nation addressing the Jewish saints of his time, while they were sitll under the Law. And now, we can apply this to all Christians, which is precisely what Paul did in 1 Thess 4.

When the Son of Man returns from heaven, we are gathered up to heaven by the angels of heaven. And we do so because we must do what Christ did when he said, "Do not hold me because I must return to my Father in heaven."

And so, we must, in order to be fully glorified, go to heaven to where the Son of Man is, to obtain from him our glorified bodies. In this way we may return with him in glory to establish his glorious Kingdom on the earth. And I believe this will happen immediately, in a moment of time.

So the mechanics of our leaving and returning with him is not the significant thing. What matters is that we be glorified with the Son of Man in order to enter into his rule together with him, so that the Kingdom may be established among mortal men on the earth.

And in the final analysis "Eschatology" is nothing more than a religious term meaning: "Rank Speculation".

 

[Pilgrimshope]

We know he will return on the day of trumpets. That is a given in order to fulfill that type just as Passover, unleavened bread, first fruits, pentecost and the day of atonement have been and are being fulfilled. We know when the trumpets begin to sound there will be approximately 4 years left. The two witnesses will most definitely know. So yes, there will be people who know.

Can we agree this purely your speculation ?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

And in the final analysis "Eschatology" is nothing more than a religious term meaning: "Rank Speculation".

One of the many words and phrases people use to twist what’s really there

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Can we agree this purely your speculation ?

Um on the day of trumpets, no. It's inconceivable that 5 festivals have been and are being fulfilled, but the remaining 2 won't. Just total unbelief to go that route.

The other two are well-informed speculation

 

[Pilgrimshope]

randyk----this subject your talking about is way above your pay grade ---you are not there in your Faith walk to have the understanding of this subject and your spouting wrong understanding -----

You just think your idea is right ---but it is not --we are to rightly divide the Word of God ---and your wrongly dividing the Word as I have pointed out to you with scripture -----

Note >You are one of these people who don't want to get the truth of Scripture ---you just want to make scripture say what you want it to say -------and make your belief right--your more interested in being RIGHT than you are seeking Truth from the Scripture -----

so good luck with your wrong belief about the time of the Rapture and the 2nd coming -----

1 Thessalonian 5 ----about the thief in the night ----this is talking about the Saints beings ready for the -the immanent coming of Jesus for His Church -----the Rapture ---being Rapture Ready =====

Berean Study Bible
like a thief in the night
This simile is a vivid illustration of the unexpected and sudden nature of the Lord's coming.

The imagery here is meant to convey the element of surprise and the need for vigilance. Jesus Himself used similar language in the Gospels (e.g., Matthew 24:43), reinforcing the idea that believers must always be prepared, living in a state of spiritual alertness and moral integrity. This phrase serves as a call to readiness, urging Christians to live faithfully and expectantly, knowing that the Lord's return could happen at any moment.

“about the thief in the night ----this is talking about the Saints beings ready for the -the immanent coming of Jesus for His Church -----the Rapture ---being Rapture Ready “

eggzactly.

“Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more. For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.

For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: that every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour; not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God: that no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.

For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness. He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.


For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:1-8, 16-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

then he goes into

“But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭5:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

then continues on with how we are to behave and act while we’re waiting in expectation

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Um on the day of trumpets, no. It's inconceivable that 5 festivals would be fulfilled and the remaining 2 won't. Just total unbelief to go that route.

The other two are well-informed speculation

Can you show me where the bible teaches all this since it isn’t speculation and reveals the time of Jesus return ?

i shared several scriptires to support what I said .