The Problem With Grace
- Thread starter HistoryPrincess
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Prisons are a good opportunity to spread the gospel. Prisoners have a lot of time available to read and reflect on their current situation. A prison ministry is a great outreach for a church.
I have visited several prisons in response to inmate requests. If anyone’s church wishes to expand its prison outreach program or develop a new program the first step is to ask your pastor to get in touch with the prison chaplain. One thing that should be noted in selecting church members to visit a prison is the security involved in the vetting process. When I was active in this outreach I was fingerprinted every two years. If someone has less than a perfect criminal record they may be discouraged by being initially rejected.
I have visited several prisons in response to inmate requests. If anyone’s church wishes to expand its prison outreach program or develop a new program the first step is to ask your pastor to get in touch with the prison chaplain. One thing that should be noted in selecting church members to visit a prison is the security involved in the vetting process. When I was active in this outreach I was fingerprinted every two years. If someone has less than a perfect criminal record they may be discouraged by being initially rejected.
-
2
-
1
- Show all
I think I understand your angst over other people doing others wrong as said about that in Pedeophiles and rapists cases.
God is definitely against people taking away other peoples free will. And God will choose who gets in and who do not, as I see you do believe too, yet are angst, mad, angry over people that harm other people, Amen to you in that to. to do that yourself, Amen.
I see to pray for them, to trust God to make the call as God Father knows best what to choose for each person period. Seeing what Son did on that cross willingly went to death without a fight back. Leaving us the people the free choice to choose to believe God or not in his risen Son Jesus or not! To ask God for the new life offered in his risen Son to teach us new and be new in love to all. Does that mean to be a door-mat?
God forbid, it means to stand up for the truth in the risen Son for you, where you are changed from the first born flesh death to God Father's Spirit and truth for you too.
To, be aware, wise as a serpent, I agree, yet remember to remain harmless as a dove (Matthew 10:16-20, Luke 21:14-15)
Not easy, especially since you have gotten harmed or others you love here on earth have got harmed by those wrong doers too.
God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah over the people there, that would not allow free choice. The same with the Egyptians, would not allow free choice.
The perplexity of all this, I see to trust God all in all and thank God for whatever has, might or is happening right now.
Looking at Saul who became Paul, the transformation, amazing as I hope for those others get this truth too, thank you
God is definitely against people taking away other peoples free will. And God will choose who gets in and who do not, as I see you do believe too, yet are angst, mad, angry over people that harm other people, Amen to you in that to. to do that yourself, Amen.
I see to pray for them, to trust God to make the call as God Father knows best what to choose for each person period. Seeing what Son did on that cross willingly went to death without a fight back. Leaving us the people the free choice to choose to believe God or not in his risen Son Jesus or not! To ask God for the new life offered in his risen Son to teach us new and be new in love to all. Does that mean to be a door-mat?
God forbid, it means to stand up for the truth in the risen Son for you, where you are changed from the first born flesh death to God Father's Spirit and truth for you too.
To, be aware, wise as a serpent, I agree, yet remember to remain harmless as a dove (Matthew 10:16-20, Luke 21:14-15)
Not easy, especially since you have gotten harmed or others you love here on earth have got harmed by those wrong doers too.
God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah over the people there, that would not allow free choice. The same with the Egyptians, would not allow free choice.
The perplexity of all this, I see to trust God all in all and thank God for whatever has, might or is happening right now.
Looking at Saul who became Paul, the transformation, amazing as I hope for those others get this truth too, thank you
First off, you don't know the enteral condition of anyone. The truth is God's mercy is far better than man's.
is the serial killer who has killed many people and raped women etc. Is God to take into account that as a child, they were sexually abused by a parent or beaten and mistreated. Or sent to school where the child also can be very cruel and teachers? Or one's mother who cuddled and emotionally abused them to the point where one hates women?
Are we seeing and evil person or the effects of evil people? We do not know. If that same Killer is caught and is held accountable to the laws of the land, life imprisonment or the death penalty. And at that moment or during time, come to know Jesus as Lord and Savior can be forgiven and, yes, go to Heaven.
If your hatred for God's Standard is so great that you don't want to be with him, that is because you don't know him. You have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof.
Your human rationale is not superior to God's judgment, and just so you know, one who judges will be judged by the same standard. MATTHEW CHAPTER 6 AND 7 Jesus said do not judge. And hate is murder.
Maybe if we look at ourselves, we can see where we deserve hell and trust God to know who is going to be saved and who will not.
is the serial killer who has killed many people and raped women etc. Is God to take into account that as a child, they were sexually abused by a parent or beaten and mistreated. Or sent to school where the child also can be very cruel and teachers? Or one's mother who cuddled and emotionally abused them to the point where one hates women?
Are we seeing and evil person or the effects of evil people? We do not know. If that same Killer is caught and is held accountable to the laws of the land, life imprisonment or the death penalty. And at that moment or during time, come to know Jesus as Lord and Savior can be forgiven and, yes, go to Heaven.
If your hatred for God's Standard is so great that you don't want to be with him, that is because you don't know him. You have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof.
Your human rationale is not superior to God's judgment, and just so you know, one who judges will be judged by the same standard. MATTHEW CHAPTER 6 AND 7 Jesus said do not judge. And hate is murder.
Maybe if we look at ourselves, we can see where we deserve hell and trust God to know who is going to be saved and who will not.
-
1
- Show all
I also think this thread should say the "Problem with the laws of the land."
FYI, the land is filled with violence and lawlessness.
Many will remember Richard Remerez, " Night Stalker." Then, Mayor Diane Feinstein violated the Second Amendment in SF and banned guns in SF. This serial killer took advantage of that and went on a murdering spree. The point is the laws of the land promote violence.
No punishment to fit the crime; when teachers sleep with students, and murderers get sexual visits in prison. There is no respect for the law because the law is calling Good bad and bad good. WOE!
We are living in the "WOE!" If there were laws of the land that did the following after they had their day in court and were judged by the 12 Jurys then the judge passed down the sentence and the sentence was this for those found Guilty:
The crime in the land would go down, NOT because they are afraid of going to hell but fear death.
Here it is!!!
People do not fear a God they can't see because they do not fear the laws of the land they can see.
FYI, the land is filled with violence and lawlessness.
Many will remember Richard Remerez, " Night Stalker." Then, Mayor Diane Feinstein violated the Second Amendment in SF and banned guns in SF. This serial killer took advantage of that and went on a murdering spree. The point is the laws of the land promote violence.
No punishment to fit the crime; when teachers sleep with students, and murderers get sexual visits in prison. There is no respect for the law because the law is calling Good bad and bad good. WOE!
We are living in the "WOE!" If there were laws of the land that did the following after they had their day in court and were judged by the 12 Jurys then the judge passed down the sentence and the sentence was this for those found Guilty:
- Child molesters put to death and sexual abusers of children
- men who rape women or men put to death
- those who steal are imprisoned based on the amount they stole. 10, 15, 20 years
- Fraud by government officials, elected locally and state, fed level life imprison
- no 10, 15, 30 years he's on Death row to wait for sentencing to be carried out
The crime in the land would go down, NOT because they are afraid of going to hell but fear death.
Here it is!!!
People do not fear a God they can't see because they do not fear the laws of the land they can see.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Seriously bro, that is what you stay up late at night thinking about? What about praying for the success and salvation of your family, your grandchildren, breakthroughs for them, etc? What about going on a 30 day fast seeking God and asking Him to give you guidance or a scripture about His forgiveness? If you have something that’s eating at you, that is Gods way of drawing you to Him. Also, the enemy will sometimes use these issues that get us stirred up to distract us from praying and seeking God,
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Hello HistoryPrincess, while I can certainly understand your sentiment (about the displeasure that you imagine that you will feel about living out eternity in the presence of those who we deem "monsters" in this life), do you really want to go there 
(by "there" I mean turning your back on both the living God and the salvation/eternal life that He graciously and freely offers to you)?
Where those who we consider to be evil monsters in this world end up is not for me (or for you) to say, rather, ours is to trust our loving and holy Lord in whatever He chooses to do (that He always knows what He's doing/that He always knows what is best), come what may, remembering too that if a "monster" has truly been saved by Him, that he/she is now a "new creation/new creature" in Christ .. e.g. Ezekiel 36:26-27; Ephesians 2:1-5; 2 Corinthians 5:17 who will NEVER sin again for the balance of eternity, PTL!!
If you think about it, such a thing is simply INCREDIBLE/something that we should be utterly AMAZED by, yes, which is why even the angels long to look into all such things, things concerning the Lord's salvation of us, that is (which may even include even some of the monsters among us) .. e.g. 1 Peter 1:10-12.
Perhaps it would be best to concern yourself with those who are not yet Heavenbound, rather than with those who already are
God bless you!!
~Deuteronomy (David)
(by "there" I mean turning your back on both the living God and the salvation/eternal life that He graciously and freely offers to you)?Where those who we consider to be evil monsters in this world end up is not for me (or for you) to say, rather, ours is to trust our loving and holy Lord in whatever He chooses to do (that He always knows what He's doing/that He always knows what is best), come what may, remembering too that if a "monster" has truly been saved by Him, that he/she is now a "new creation/new creature" in Christ .. e.g. Ezekiel 36:26-27; Ephesians 2:1-5; 2 Corinthians 5:17 who will NEVER sin again for the balance of eternity, PTL!!
If you think about it, such a thing is simply INCREDIBLE/something that we should be utterly AMAZED by, yes, which is why even the angels long to look into all such things, things concerning the Lord's salvation of us, that is (which may even include even some of the monsters among us) .. e.g. 1 Peter 1:10-12.
Perhaps it would be best to concern yourself with those who are not yet Heavenbound, rather than with those who already are
God bless you!!
~Deuteronomy (David)
-
2
-
1
-
1
- Show all
God is perfect... You are not God.. you're a human being.. therefore your ability to forgive is no where near the level of perfection that God has.. That's why you find it hard to accept the extent to which the LORD can and does forgive transgressors of His will..
The Big problem for you is not that you find it hard to forgive.. The problem you have is hating the forgiveness of God and being offended by it.. Your position is one derived from Pride.. You are placing yourself as a judge over God and declaring Him evil for the Good that He is and has done.. You see your fault as noble and See Gods perfection as a fault..
It's up to you whom you worship.. in this case you are worshiping your own standards. But you are not God and you cannot save yourself.. If you do not come to trust in the judgement of God you will not gain the advantage of Gods Grace.. For one to have the grace of God one must believe God, they must trust that Gods judgement is just and good and true..
The only unforgivable transgression in the Bible was established by the LORD Jesus and that is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.. All other transgressions are forgivable through the Atonement of the LORD Jesus.. So we are all left with a decision... We either trust in The LORD and accept this.. Or we can reject His will and go our own way..
The Big problem for you is not that you find it hard to forgive.. The problem you have is hating the forgiveness of God and being offended by it.. Your position is one derived from Pride.. You are placing yourself as a judge over God and declaring Him evil for the Good that He is and has done.. You see your fault as noble and See Gods perfection as a fault..
It's up to you whom you worship.. in this case you are worshiping your own standards. But you are not God and you cannot save yourself.. If you do not come to trust in the judgement of God you will not gain the advantage of Gods Grace.. For one to have the grace of God one must believe God, they must trust that Gods judgement is just and good and true..
The only unforgivable transgression in the Bible was established by the LORD Jesus and that is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.. All other transgressions are forgivable through the Atonement of the LORD Jesus.. So we are all left with a decision... We either trust in The LORD and accept this.. Or we can reject His will and go our own way..
-
1
- Show all
With lists like these, I thank God the OP is not the Judge:
Galations 5
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: [d]adultery, [e]fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, [f]murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 6
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [b]homosexuals, nor [c]sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
Praise the Lord for 11 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were [d]sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
Galations 5
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: [d]adultery, [e]fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, [f]murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 6
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [b]homosexuals, nor [c]sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
Praise the Lord for 11 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were [d]sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
-
2
-
1
-
1
- Show all
There’s Gods grace which saves us through this process bringing repentance from sin and righteousness of life
“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.”
Titus 2:11-14 KJV
And then you have the modern day distortion of everything because of the word “grace “ which is claiming all the crazy stuff you don’t read in the Bible about how grace saves us regardless of what we do or grace means god no longer cares about your sin or actions your saved already yadda yadda in other words there’s also man’s distorted grace that becomes a liscense to live as tbey Will without consequence
“For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.”
Jude 1:4
Removing Gods word and then calling it grace is a deception the grace of zgod changes sinners over to those who act upright
“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.”
Titus 2:11-14 KJV
And then you have the modern day distortion of everything because of the word “grace “ which is claiming all the crazy stuff you don’t read in the Bible about how grace saves us regardless of what we do or grace means god no longer cares about your sin or actions your saved already yadda yadda in other words there’s also man’s distorted grace that becomes a liscense to live as tbey Will without consequence
“For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.”
Jude 1:4
Removing Gods word and then calling it grace is a deception the grace of zgod changes sinners over to those who act upright
Hi.. your looking at this through the natural. We here tend to measure from a "white lie" to sins you wrote about. Yet with GOD someone that murders vs someone that just lies they still will not get into heaven. Those sins you talked about are the reason He came. He came to save them. There is no logic for Christ said all sins can be forgiven but not blaspheme of the holy Spirit. Sin is just missing the mark.
Those people you as man refuse to refer to them as human beings the only true GOD created them. They are the reason He came and died. It would be wise to ask Him to show you how He sees them. What you see is Him crying because not ONE person on this earth knows how much He loves them. its over.. He already died for the sin of the world.. so whos going to tell them?
Those people you as man refuse to refer to them as human beings the only true GOD created them. They are the reason He came and died. It would be wise to ask Him to show you how He sees them. What you see is Him crying because not ONE person on this earth knows how much He loves them. its over.. He already died for the sin of the world.. so whos going to tell them?
-
1
- Show all
