The King James Bible

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John146 said:
In order for God to be perfect, His words must be pure, holy and perfect.

By what you are saying, we don't have the words of Jesus. How do you know Jesus' words are perfect? How do you know they can be trusted? In your mind, we don't have them. In your mind, what we have cannot be trusted since they are merely a translation of what was given 2000+ years ago.
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We have everything we need to have. We do not need all His words He ever said. Even synoptic gospels change His words very obviously, but leaving the meaning to us.

If 4 gospel authors in the first century were uncertain what His words exactly were, I am not sure why do you need them in "perfect" form today.
 
preacher4truth said:
Your King Jimmy version isn't a word for word translation. Thus it has some mixture in it, men adding words to the original texts. Plus some translational errors. Christ, on the other hand is without error, yet your faith falls apart because it is in printed text that has to have zero errors and/or mixture.
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I'm ok with that. I believe God can take what was said in one language and have it translated into another language, and that translation be the very word of God.

What language was Joseph speaking to his servants in Egypt? Answer: Egyptian. What language was that conversation translated to in the originals? Answer: Hebrew. Was this an error? Was something lost in the translation? Is our God capable of more than what you give Him credit?
 
trofimus said:
We do not have all single words given to prophets in the event of their inspiration. Neither me, nor you. We do not have all words Christ ever said to his disciples.

But we both have all important teachings of Christ and God for our life.

Example:
We can discuss if G 1:1 had originally "heaven" or "heavens". We do not know for sure. But we are both sure that God is the creator of everything.
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"All important teachings?" Who are you to declare which are important? Every single word of God is important.
 
trofimus said:
If 4 gospel authors in the first century were uncertain what His words exactly were, I am not sure why do you need them in "perfect" form today.
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Whatever do you mean? The authors were uncertain? Are you trying to say that they were writing under their own power and thoughts? Their words were not inspired by holy God?
 
trofimus said:
We do not have all single words given to prophets in the event of their inspiration. Neither me, nor you. We do not have all words Christ ever said to his disciples.

But we both have all important teachings of Christ and God for our life.

Example:
We can discuss if G 1:1 had originally "heaven" or "heavens". We do not know for sure. But we are both sure that God is the creator of everything.
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Is the following important for us to understand?

Mark 9:29

KJV - And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.

NASB - And He said to them, “This kind cannot come out by anything but prayer.”

Is it important to know how that kind is cast out? Is it by prayer or is it by prayer and fasting? And please don't tell me it doesn't matter because truth matters. God's words matter.
 
John146 said:
Where are the words of God? Only the words of God can be trusted. Please tell me where they are? Every one of them. Do you have them? Do you have access to the words of God? The words of God are pure words without mixture or error. Do you have them?
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Yes, I do. The word of God is living and active and sharper than any double-edged sword.
 
John146 said:
"All important teachings?" Who are you to declare which are important? Every single word of God is important.
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Tell that to Matthew, Mark and Luke, they changed many of His exact words.

So, its obviously God, who decides what He will leave us in what form.
 
John146 said:
Is the following important for us to understand?

Mark 9:29

KJV - And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.

NASB - And He said to them, “This kind cannot come out by anything but prayer.”

Is it important to know how that kind is cast out? Is it by prayer or is it by prayer and fasting? And please don't tell me it doesn't matter because truth matters. God's words matter.
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1.
It has never been important for me in my life. Was it for you? I have never cast out demons or even such difficult demons as in this scenario.

2.
Also, if you have a good Bible with notes, you will see both variants. If you have a Bible without notes (like KJV), you have lost many of such possibilities that are obviously very important to you.
 
trofimus said:
Tell that to Matthew, Mark and Luke, they changed many of His exact words.
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2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Do you not believe this verse to be true? The words written down by Matthew, Mark, and Luke were inspired by God. Do you believe this? Or do you believe they wrote down their own thoughts from their own perspectives?
 
John146 said:
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Do you not believe this verse to be true? The words written down by Matthew, Mark, and Luke were inspired by God. Do you believe this? Or do you believe they wrote down their own thoughts from their own perspectives?
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I do not believe in automatic dictation so yes, I believe they wrote their memories, thoughts etc from their perspectives.

They were inspired while doing that.

Which of those three is right when quoting Jesus differently?
 
Lucy-Pevensie said:
What do you want, a shard from Moshe's first set of stone tablets?

[video=youtube;nXeTsWGPT0w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXeTsWGPT0w[/video]
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Do we have the original ten commandments written by God's own finger? What happened to them? Did no Moses destroy them? They were the originals. Did God panic? Nope. God simply allowed Moses to write a copy of the originals and that copy is the inspired words of God. Let's make sure we don't place more emphasis on the "originals" than God.
 
trofimus said:
I do not believe in automatic dictation so yes, I believe they wrote their memories, thoughts etc from their perspectives.

They were inspired while doing that.

Which of those three is right when quoting Jesus differently?
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God did not inspire men, He inspired His words. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God.

There were many events that these men wrote of that they were not even present. Luke wrote about the birth of Christ. Luke was not at the birth of Christ. The words that Luke wrote were inspired by God. Luke was in charge of preserving them down in writing.
 
John146 said:
Is the following important for us to understand?

Mark 9:29

KJV - And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.

NASB - And He said to them, “This kind cannot come out by anything but prayer.”

Is it important to know how that kind is cast out? Is it by prayer or is it by prayer and fasting? And please don't tell me it doesn't matter because truth matters. God's words matter.
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It would be interesting to hear the opinion of a true Greek scholar, but the interlinear Bible I looked at had no mention of fasting. It simply says by prayer.

The NASB also says only "by prayer" ..... no mention of fasting.

Did the KJV translators perhaps add a concept to what Jesus said?
 
NIV (which is the one I use most often)


Mark 9:29

[FONT=&quot]He replied, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]“This kind can come out only by prayer.[a]”

[FONT=&quot][a] Some manuscripts [/FONT]prayer and fasting


[/FONT]
 
hornetguy said:
It would be interesting to hear the opinion of a true Greek scholar, but the interlinear Bible I looked at had no mention of fasting. It simply says by prayer.

The NASB also says only "by prayer" ..... no mention of fasting.

Did the KJV translators perhaps add a concept to what Jesus said?
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"And fasting" is found in later Greek manuscripts, not in early ones. It is supposed to be added later by some churchman and not to be in originals.

Because KJV used Erasmus´text which is composed only of later manuscripts, they translated it.
 
hornetguy said:
It would be interesting to hear the opinion of a true Greek scholar, but the interlinear Bible I looked at had no mention of fasting. It simply says by prayer.

The NASB also says only "by prayer" ..... no mention of fasting.

Did the KJV translators perhaps add a concept to what Jesus said?
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The words "and fasting" are in the Majority texts, as well as Sinaiticus correction, C, D, and P45 which predates them all. (These corrections were made in attempt to try and bring them more in line with the Byzantine text.)

The words are also found in the Old Latin, Syriac, Coptic, and the Douay version.


Yet because Vaticanus omits them, the NASB, NIV, ESV also omit "with fasting".
 
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