The Kerygma - God's Requirement for Salvation

[Pilgrimshope]

It doesn’t. The story of Enoch doesn’t include his entire life.
How about Abraham? What did his life consist in before God went and sought him out? Was he pursuing God?

“There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.”
‭‭Job‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This man isn’t opposed to God he’s not an incapable sinner

“These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:9‬ ‭

This man is not opposed to God he’s not an incapable sinner he’s a man acting in faith

“and Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters: and all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: and Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭5:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This man is not an unable sinner who can’t do right.

“And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭32:33‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this doesn’t say “ I’ve only chosen some to write in my book and they can never be blotted out “ it says “ whoever has sinned against me , I will blot out of my book “

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This doesn’t say “ only some souls are mine and thier own sins have nothing to do with it adam sinned and they are all lost “

its hard to discuss the Bible with you brother you never accept the simplest statements in scripture if they don’t affirm your theories

It just says what it says we’re meant to learn what it says and believe that stuff letting it correct our own theories of things that are opposite

 

[Cameron143]

“There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.”
‭‭Job‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This man isn’t opposed to God he’s not an incapable sinner

“These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:9‬ ‭

This man is not opposed to God he’s not an incapable sinner he’s a man acting in faith

“and Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters: and all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: and Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭5:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This man is not an unable sinner who can’t do right.

“And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭32:33‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this doesn’t say “ I’ve only chosen some to write in my book and they can never be blotted out “ it says “ whoever has sinned against me , I will blot out of my book “

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This doesn’t say “ only some souls are mine and thier own sins have nothing to do with it adam sinned and they are all lost “

its hard to discuss the Bible with you brother you never accept the simplest statements in scripture if they don’t affirm your theories

It just says what it says we’re meant to learn what it says and believe that stuff letting it correct our own theories of things that are opposite

Because someone is righteous at one point in their life doesn't mean they always were. Were you righteous before you were saved?

 

[GWH]

Ok. Having considered them, what is the answer to my question?

Ok. Having considered them, what is the answer to my question?

THOSE answer your question!

HB 2:14-18, "Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death--that is, the devil... For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way... that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted."

HB 5:8-9, "Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him."

If you have a different answer, please share it!

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Because someone is righteous at one point in their life doesn't mean they always were. Were you righteous before you were saved?

I don’t wanna keep going in these circles you’re never able to acknolwedge anything that’s clear like a bullet proof wall . You circle back to another question this time about me it’s like trying to pick up a watermelon seed off of a wet plate with mittens on

“But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self. For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified:

but he that judgeth me is the Lord. Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭4:3-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m waiting for the judgement when I have to do this

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

brother to answer your question , no I wasnt righteous but again lol it wasn’t that I wasn’t capable of doing right , it was tbat I was following lies like all sinners do and refusing to hear the truth in those days

Ot was my fault wasn’t that God made me incapable it was that I was following darkness and sin .

But again brother me being a sinner before I met Jesus has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that Enoch , Noah , job , Daniel ect we’rent like me following sin they were upright men who’s heart was fixed on God men who walked upright in the spirit with him like were called to do in the gospel

Its why they are inheriting the same kingdom we inherit

“And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭8:11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we aren’t born wicked or holy we’re born in limbo having both good and evil inclinations and we need to follow the good promptings and reject the evil temptations

 

[Cameron143]

I don’t wanna keep going in these circles you’re never able to acknolwedge anything that’s clear like a bullet proof wall . You circle back to another question this time about me it’s like trying to pick up a watermelon seed off of a wet plate with mittens on

“But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self. For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified:

but he that judgeth me is the Lord. Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭4:3-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m waiting for the judgement when I have to do this

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

brother to answer your question , no I wasnt righteous but again lol it wasn’t that I wasn’t capable of doing right , it was tbat I was following lies like all sinners do and refusing to hear the truth in those days

Ot was my fault wasn’t that God made me incapable it was that I was following darkness and sin .

But again brother me being a sinner before I met Jesus has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that Enoch , Noah , job , Daniel ect we’rent like me following sin they were upright men who’s heart was fixed on God men who walked upright in the spirit with him like were called to do in the gospel

Its why they are inheriting the same kingdom we inherit

“And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭8:11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we aren’t born wicked or holy we’re born in limbo having both good and evil inclinations and we need to follow the good promptings and reject the evil temptations

I appreciate the conversation. Blessings.

 

[Lamar]

Not my question. Is it true that all are born in Adam? Do we come into this world under condemnation?

Not sure what you are implying by the term "born in Adam" but Genesis 3:20 states that Eve is the mother of all of the living.

Genesis 3:20
New International Version
Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the mother of all the living.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On your question of mankind being born under condemnation, the answer is of course not.

God "knits" us in our mother's womb. God does not knit sinful beings.

Psalm 139:13-14
New International Version
13 For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother’s womb.
14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.

 

[Magenta]

we aren’t born wicked or holy we’re born in limbo having both good and evil inclinations and we need to follow the good promptings and reject the evil temptations

I am curious to know how in your view, a person who is taken captive to the will of the devil and is a lover of darkness, a slave to sin, blinded to the gospel truth, unable to comprehend the things of God... in the flesh within which NO good dwells, as all most certainly are born that way and in need of a Spiritual rebirth... how does such a person hear without their ears being curcumcised or see without their eyes being opened or love God, being brought from death to life while they were yet sinners... It just seems to me that so many overlook the circumcision of the heart that needs to take place... and Jesus himself affirmed the fact that He came to open the eyes of the blind and set free the slaves.

 

[Lamar]

Also, why is Christ called the 2nd Adam?

Because He was the 2nd man born without a earthly father.

 

[Cameron143]

Not sure what you are implying by the term "born in Adam" but Genesis 3:20 states that Eve is the mother of all of the living.

Genesis 3:20
New International Version
Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the mother of all the living.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On your question of mankind being born under condemnation, the answer is of course not.

God "knits" us in our mother's womb. God does not knit sinful beings.

Psalm 139:13-14
New International Version
13 For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother’s womb.
14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.

What do you make of John 3:18 and what does Ephesians 2:1-3 reveal about the human condition before the grace of God comes to an individual?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I am curious to know how in your view, a person who is taken captive to the will of the devil and is a lover of darkness, a slave to sin, blinded to the gospel truth, unable to comprehend the things of God... in the flesh within which NO good dwells, as all most certainly are born that way and in need of a Spiritual rebirth... how does such a person hear without their ears being curcumcised or see without their eyes being opened or love God, being brought from death to life while they were yet sinners... It just seems to me that so many overlook the circumcision of the heart that needs to take place... and Jesus himself affirmed the fact that He came to open the eyes of the blind and set free the slaves.

“I am curious to know how in your view, a person who is taken captive to the will of the devil and is a lover of darkness, a slave to sin, blinded to the gospel truth, unable to comprehend the things of God..in the flesh within which NO good dwells, as all most certainly are born that way and in need of a Spiritual rebirth... “

We do need a rebirth that happens when we begin to hear , accept and believe the gospel. What God did for mankind to save and redeem us is in the gospel. Salvstion is when we hear and accept it as truth

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I really am not following your premise here. Or even sure I agree with all your saying there

God didn’t create mankind in a state of wickedness and sin where we couldn’t do good we caused tbat by rejecting Gods word and following the lie

you also see unborn babies and children as hopeless sinners and incapable of doing good ? Just born created by god like that ?

“But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭10:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭9:42‬ ‭

How come they believed in him ? Were they already spiritually reborn somehow ?

coulent have been because he hadn’t given the holy ghost yet how did anyone ever believe in Jesus if mans not capable from birth ?

a we’re not born evil and condemned I little baby doesn’t need to be reborn they are without sin they have no knowledge of the law and cannot have transgressed it

 

[Cameron143]

Because He was the 2nd man born without a earthly father.

Because He was the 2nd man to represent the human race.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Because He was the 2nd man to represent the human race.

“And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.

And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭4:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Magenta]

I really am not following your premise here. Or even sure I agree with all your saying there

Everything I said was based on explicitly stated Biblical truths so I am unclear as to which ones you disagree with? I don't get why you bring babies into the conversation because even they are born in the flesh in which no good thing dwells according to Scripture.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Everything I said was based on explicitly stated Biblical truths so I am unclear as to which ones you disagree with? I don't get why you bring babies into the conversation because even they are born in the flesh in which no good thing dwells according to Scripture.

Well sister I figured it was obvious

i disagree than mankind is born wicked and incapable of doing good.

babies are in the conversation because you joined in a conversation I was having with Cameron. Tbat is one of the things we were talking about . You sort of came into a discussion I sort of am wondering what your position is or rather what is it your actually asking me

 

[Magenta]

Well sister I figured it was obvious

i disagree than mankind is born wicked and incapable of doing good.

So everyone having gone their own way and none being righteous And in need of being spiritually reborn does not apply to who? Since everything I said was solidly based on biblical truths no it's not obvious what you disagree with...

 

[Kroogz]

The point I was making concerning Adam was that he was God's representative for all mankind. His failure to uphold the covenant God made with him affected all mankind.

Also, why is Christ called the 2nd Adam?

2 Cor 5:19~~that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

I don't believe Jesus paid for sins universally.

1 John 2:2~~And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 Tim 2:4~~who wants all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.



Acts 16:30-31~~He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”

They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”

 

[Magenta]

Because He was the 2nd man to represent the human race.

All are born in of or after Adam and need to be reborn of Jesus Christ... That is they need to be born again in order to attain to life ever after and escape the second death. Born once, die twice... born twice, die once.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

So everyone having gone their own way and none being righteous And in need of being spiritually reborn does not apply to who?

you mean after sin ran it’s course and the law came and condemned everyone ? Yeah again sister we’re back before this happened

“The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, To see if there were any that did understand, And seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: There is none that doeth good, no, not one.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭14:2-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s about 700 bc or so

What we were talking about is men like Enoch

“and Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters: and all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: and Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭5:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Men like Noah

“These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

men like job

“There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.”
‭‭Job‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there’s no record of them being “ born again “ and infact three of them God says thier own righteousness could deliver them

“though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭14:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

my point Sister and position on this discussion with Cameron is mankind is not incapable of listening to and obeying God that’s a deception that keeps people bound.

the truth is if we obey him we’ll be set free from that deception keeping us in chains just like Noah and everyone else who receives the report from God that they were pleasing to him which according to the conversation I was having is not possible because man’s born “ dead “ and incapable of walking with him and obeying living right before him in his presence like they were

“By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

many men have sought for God and he answers them also he ate a meal with Abraham’s called Abraham his friend because he believed him Abraham believed God

nothing ever says “ God forces Abraham to believe him “ but that Abraham’s faith in God is rewarded

when you say people are blind and servants of sin note when God looked down and declares that it wasn’t from the beginning it’s on the middle after man fell from grace and then became corrupt

The old testement is true also many of those men who lived then are going to be in eternity with believers now .

 

[Magenta]

you mean after sin ran it’s course and the law came and condemned everyone ? Yeah again sister we’re back before this happened

“The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, To see if there were any that did understand, And seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: There is none that doeth good, no, not one.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭14:2-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s about 700 bc or so

What we were talking about is men like Enoch

“and Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters: and all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: and Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭5:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Men like Noah

“These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

men like job

“There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.”
‭‭Job‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there’s no record of them being “ born again “ and infact three of them God says thier own righteousness could deliver them

“though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭14:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

my point Sister and position on this discussion with Cameron is mankind is not incapable of listening to and obeying God that’s a deception that keeps people bound...

the truth is if we obey him we’ll be set free from that deception keeping us in chains just like Noah and everyone else who receives the report from God that they were pleasing to him which according to the conversation I was having is not possible because man’s born “ dead “ and incapable of walking with him and obeying living right before him in his presence like they were

“By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

many men have sought for God and he answers them also he ate a meal with Abraham’s called Abraham his friend because he believed him Abraham believed God

nothing ever says “ God forces Abraham to believe him “ but that Abraham’s faith in God is rewarded

when you say people are blind and servants of sin note when God looked down and declares that it wasn’t from the beginning it’s on the middle after man fell from grace and then became corrupt

The old testement is true also many of those men who lived then are going to be in eternity with believers now .

Man fell and became corrupt at the beginning... before they were expelled from Eden. Paul repeats There are none righteous no not one. Romans 3 verse 10. You mentioned Noah but in his time God extinguished all life but his family Because man was so eviland that is not the middle.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Man fell and became corrupt at the beginning... before they were expelled from Eden. Paul repeats There are none righteous no not one.

How did Enoch walk with God and please him ? Why did god say Noah and job were perfect ? Why did he say Noah Daniel and job could deliver thoer own souls with thier righteousness ?

ayes sister Paul came after 700 bc when the prophets began explaining that man had brought darkness upon the world and become dumb over time it’s all explained in prophecy but people here like to just tell you how it is

In the end though anyone can be saved if they accept and believe the gospel .