The Kerygma - God's Requirement for Salvation

[Cameron143]

Brother you continually answer any simple point that you don’t want to just say “ yes “ to lol with a circle back to unrelated topic

babies aren’t sinful even under the law until they were of age to be accountable for sin. They don’t need salvation until they have sinned , we’re saved from sin which has a sentance of death because we have sinned babies have no sin they need remitted or guilt they need to confess again especially unborn babies

But Cameron dear brother hownis your answer to the question

“Do we have to believe the gospel to be saved ?”

A question about unborn babies and “ if “ God can do that ? God can do anything he wants to brother . He’s told us how to be saved in the everlasting Gospel and said whoever believes shall be saved

Whoever doesn’t believe shall be damned

“Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭4:12‬ ‭

“But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:8-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

unborn humans can’t do that they can’t be aware of sin and commit sin either it doesn’t make sense to ask aboit thier salvation they’re innocent.

“Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people.

My righteousness is near; my salvation is gone forth, and mine arms shall judge the people; the isles shall wait upon me, and on mine arm shall they trust.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭51:4-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We find salvation in Christ who was promised in the ot and arrived in the new im not sure an unborn baby is a fair comparison to a grown and accountable man or woman

My answer is no. That doesn't mean God doesn't employ the gospel and work salvation through the word of God and the Spirit of God as a general rule. He does. But He's God. He's not limited to save only in this manner. He could effect salvation by doing the chicken dance if He so chooses.
The reason I asked about an unborn child is to make this point. Even an unborn child needs redemption. They are in Adam, not Christ, when they are conceived. If they die, are they magically placed into Christ? Or does God need to place them into Christ? Does a spiritual birth take place?
I'm just giving an example where the gospel is not the means of salvation. And if there is even 1 example where it is absent, then it is not required.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

My answer is no. That doesn't mean God doesn't employ the gospel and work salvation through the word of God and the Spirit of God as a general rule. He does. But He's God. He's not limited to save only in this manner. He could effect salvation by doing the chicken dance if He so chooses.
The reason I asked about an unborn child is to make this point. Even an unborn child needs redemption. They are in Adam, not Christ, when they are conceived. If they die, are they magically placed into Christ? Or does God need to place them into Christ? Does a spiritual birth take place?
I'm just giving an example where the gospel is not the means of salvation. And if there is even 1 example where it is absent, then it is not required.

Yea wow I suppose is all I can really say to that Cameron.

“I'm just giving an example where the gospel is not the means of salvation. “

whats the example ? Just the hypothetical situation you’re suggesting out of thin air ? And deciding that would be salvation ? I feel like we’re no longer in a biblical discussion forum sometimes . Lol but I keep checking and that’s what it says

 

[Cameron143]

Yea wow I suppose is all I can really say to that Cameron.

“I'm just giving an example where the gospel is not the means of salvation. “

whats the example ? Just the hypothetical situation you’re suggesting out of thin air ? And deciding that would be salvation ? I feel like we’re no longer in a biblical discussion forum sometimes . Lol but I keep checking and that’s what it says

So...will you answer a few questions for me?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

So...will you answer a few questions for me?

About the Bible and what it says ?

 

[Cameron143]

About the Bible and what it says ?

Nothing I've said isn't in the Bible, but I'll attach verses for you.
1 Corinthians 15:22...is it true that an individual is in Adam or in Christ?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Nothing I've said isn't in the Bible, but I'll attach verses for you.
1 Corinthians 15:22...is it true that an individual is in Adam or in Christ?

What individual ? These ones are in Christ they are the children of God being baptized Into his son

Galatians 3:26-29 KJV
[26] For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. [27] For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. [28] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. [29] And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

We want to be in the right group that the savior is offering salvation to all of creation

Mark 16:15-16 KJV
[15] And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. [16] He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

That's salvation forever brother there's no other way but through Christ and you go through Christ when you begin to accept and believe the gospel in which Jesus is offering believers ...salvation

 

[Cameron143]

What individual ? These ones are in Christ they are the children of God being baptized Into his son

Galatians 3:26-29 KJV
[26] For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. [27] For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. [28] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. [29] And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

We want to be in the right group that the savior is offering salvation to all of creation

Mark 16:15-16 KJV
[15] And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. [16] He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

That's salvation forever brother there's no other way but through Christ and you go through Christ when you begin to accept and believe the gospel in which Jesus is offering believers ...salvation

Not my question. Is it true that all are born in Adam? Do we come into this world under condemnation?

 

[GWH]

There you go again...jumping to conclusions. I'm neither a Calvinist or a follower of Augustine. And there's nothing in the scriptures you shared that I disagree with. Your understanding of them, however, I do find fault with.
Before addressing that I have a question for you: what did Jesus accomplish while on earth that qualified Him as Savior and God's servant mentioned in the book of Isaiah?

Well, I don't see how Jesus made oppressors become cannibals (IS 49:26); nor do I see how Zionists drink the milk of nations (IS 60:16), but I do see how he became a light for the Gentiles as well as for Israel (IS 49:6-7, 59:20-60:3).

So how do I misunderstand 1TM 2:3-6, "God our Savior wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth [light]. For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom [redeemer] for all people.", which means the same thing as Isaiah?

 

[Cameron143]

Well, I don't see how Jesus made oppressors become cannibals (IS 49:26); nor do I see how Zionists drink the milk of nations (IS 60:16), but I do see how he became a light for the Gentiles as well as for Israel (IS 49:6-7, 59:20-60:3).

So how do I misunderstand 1TM 2:3-6, "God our Savior wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth [light]. For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom [redeemer] for all people.", which means the same thing as Isaiah?

You still haven't answered my question. I'll try another way: what 2 things necessary for the salvation of mankind did Jesus accomplish while on earth?

 

[GWH]

You still haven't answered my question. I'll try another way: what 2 things necessary for the salvation of mankind did Jesus accomplish while on earth?

Oh, for those answers we need to consider:

HB 2:14-18, "Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death--that is, the devil... For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way... that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted."

HB 5:8-9, "Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him."

 

[Cameron143]

Oh, for those answers we need to consider:

HB 2:14-18, "Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death--that is, the devil... For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way... that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted."

HB 5:8-9, "Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him."

Ok. Having considered them, what is the answer to my question?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Not my question. Is it true that all are born in Adam? Do we come into this world under condemnation?

No we aren’t born condemned we’re condemned by sin .” The wages of sin is death “

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭32:33‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Adam sinning isnt held against you beofre your born your sin is on you after you sin. People are condemned after they have sinned not before

Adam sinning isn’t why sinners are condemned thier sin is why they are condemned

 

[Cameron143]

No we aren’t born condemned we’re condemned by sin .” The wages of sin is death “

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭32:33‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Adam sinning isnt held against you beofre your born your sin is on you after you sin. People are condemned after they have sinned not before

Adam sinning isn’t why sinners are condemned thier sin is why they are condemned

This is no doubt why we view the answer to the OP differently.

 

[Lamar]

You still haven't answered my question. I'll try another way: what 2 things necessary for the salvation of mankind did Jesus accomplish while on earth?

As long as we are allowed to use generalities:

1. Fulfill all prophesies.
2. Live a perfect life.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

This is no doubt why we view the answer to the OP differently.

Yes brother very differently from the jump.

“And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭32:33‬ ‭

“for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, And every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬

You wont have to answer for what Adam did in his life or what I did in my life . It’s going to be about what you did and said between you and Jesus the judge.

“But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭12:36‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

notice it never says anywhere you’ll answer for what Adam did or what someone else did but it’s always about your own deeds and your own words ?

Adam had his own life to answer for based on what was given him at the time . Everyone does we aren’t born without Hope already condemned we condemn ourselves by sin

 

[Cameron143]

As long as we are allowed to use generalities:

1. Fulfill all prophesies.
2. Live a perfect life.

I appreciate the answer. These are part of the same thing...fulfilling all righteousness. This is the righteousness that is imputed to us in salvation.
The second thing is He died a substitutionary death wherein our sins were laid on Him and His blood washed us clean.
This is why He came. And this is what was necessary for anyone to be saved. The only other thing required is for the grace of God to reveal what Christ has done for an individual in space and time.

 

[Cameron143]

Yes brother very differently from the jump.

“And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭32:33‬ ‭

“for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, And every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬

You wont have to answer for what Adam did in his life or what I did in my life . It’s going to be about what you did and said between you and Jesus the judge.

“But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭12:36‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

notice it never says anywhere you’ll answer for what Adam did or what someone else did but it’s always about your own deeds and your own words ?

Adam had his own life to answer for based on what was given him at the time . Everyone does we aren’t born without Hope already condemned we condemn ourselves by sin

The point I was making concerning Adam was that he was God's representative for all mankind. His failure to uphold the covenant God made with him affected all mankind. Everyone enters this world in Adam and opposed to God. And this is what necessitates a spiritual birth...John 3.

 

[Lamar]

Eph 2:8,9

FAITH (not just belief) in the SIN OFFERING made by Jesus on Calvary. "Works" are not contributory to salvation. they're simply the RESULT of saving FAITH. IF you're Born again by FAITH plus nothing else, then your life will exhibit good works, which don' t contribute to your salvation, but are the RESULT of it.

This is the verse:

Ephesians 2:8-9
New International Version
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.

Are you implying that the "gift of God" is faith in Him or is it God's grace towards us?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The point I was making concerning Adam was that he was God's representative for all mankind. His failure to uphold the covenant God made with him affected all mankind. Everyone enters this world in Adam and opposed to God. And this is what necessitates a spiritual birth...John 3.

Enoch wasn’t opposed to God

“And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah: and Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters: and all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: and Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭5:21-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Nor did he die because he pleased God

“By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:5‬ ‭

do you see how that shatters the theory that we’re born opposed to God as babies and have no choice or ability to walk upright before God ?

noah wasn’t opposed to God

“These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

abraham wasn’t opposed to God God called Abraham his friend because he believed in him . job wast opposed to God ,

“There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.”
‭‭Job‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭

Your misunderstanding that half of verse that says “ in Adam all die , in Christ all shall be made alive “ it doesn’t mean we’re all created evil and opposed to God it means we possess the knowledge of both good and evil in us . The potential to do either good or evil

adams transgression did change mankind , it filled them with the knowledge of both good and evil . Which was not meant for mankind ms mind and heart. We’re not created to operate by that knowledge of good and evil . We’re created to operate by what God said is true only

“But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭4:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Cameron143]

Enoch wasn’t opposed to God

“And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah: and Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters: and all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: and Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭5:21-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Nor did he die because he pleased God

“By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:5‬ ‭

do you see how that shatters the theory that we’re born opposed to God as babies and have no choice or ability to walk upright before God ?

noah wasn’t opposed to God

“These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

abraham wasn’t opposed to God God called Abraham his friend because he believed in him . job wast opposed to God ,

“There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.”
‭‭Job‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭

Your misunderstanding that half of verse that says “ in Adam all die , in Christ all shall be made alive “ it doesn’t mean we’re all created evil and opposed to God it means we possess the knowledge of both good and evil in us . The potential to do either good or evil

adams transgression did change mankind , it filled them with the knowledge of both good and evil . Which was not meant for mankind ms mind and heart. We’re not created to operate by that knowledge of good and evil . We’re created to operate by what God said is true only

“But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭4:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It doesn’t. The story of Enoch doesn’t include his entire life.
How about Abraham? What did his life consist in before God went and sought him out? Was he pursuing God?
Also, why is Christ called the 2nd Adam?