The Irreducible Complex System (Psa. 77:13)

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dcontroversal said:
Amen.......I am done addressing his blather.. ...

If one is blind to the truth they cannot be reasoned with.......he is devaluing what Christ has done and in so doing he is proving that he is not of GOD.....
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Brother, I do not devalue one iota of the perfect atoning blood sacrifice of Jesus. I also do not devalue the work in the Holy Place when Jesus ascended, and where John saw Him (Rev. 1, and looking into the Holy Place, Rev 4:1 from the courtyard of earth) and where the Father received Him (Jesus) (Rev 4-5). I also do not devalue Jesus and the Father's transition into the Most Holy Place at a later time (specific by prophecy; Daniel 8:13-14,26; Revelation 9:13-15, 10:6, 11:1, 14:6-7) as seen in Revelation 3:7-8; Daniel 7:13. I do not devalue even a small bit of it, but treasure all of it.

I am sorry I upset you in one way, but not in another. I do not relish this, but it is necessary. Perhaps, one day, before it is too late, you will spend some time with me on the simple questions about Hebrews.
 
TulafonoESefulu said:
Sins (past) are forgiven (covered, remitted), not yet blotted out. That takes place at the end of the Day of Atonement.

Rom_3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Psa_32:1 A Psalm of David, Maschil. Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.

Psa_85:2 Thou hast forgiven the iniquity of thy people, thou hast covered all their sin. Selah.

"covered" sin = "forgiven" sin

Forgiven/covered sin can be unforgiven, uncovered, unremitted during the Day of Atonement, see Matthew 18 to begin with.

Forgiven sin does not equal blotted out sin. Many scriptures on this.
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You have been led astray by someone young man. Be open to correction. You have just misapplied Roman 3:25.

The sins of the past Paul is referring to are sins that were committed by mankind in the past, BEFORE JESUS' DEATH AND RESURRECTION. NOT the future sins of the born again.

Please read the passage again:
God’s Righteousness Through Faith
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all [f]and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified [g]freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a [h]propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
 
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7seasrekeyed said:
uh huh

don't feed the flying monkeys ;)
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TulafonoESefulu said:
Work of the High Priest - Hebrews & Revelation & Daniel & Leviticus 16 & 23, etc. Calvary was the completing of the Courtyard and "daily" there. There was yet the "daily" to do in the Holy Place, and finally the "yearly" in the Most Holy Place. Calvary was the laying of the foundation stone. The beginning. The laying of the perfect character.

Jesus took our sins, and must still address those.

Heb_9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
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This makes no sense

What must be done yet make sins forgiven?

The high priest made a sacrifice, once for himself. And the other for the nation of Isreal. To atone for sin.

If jesus has not yet done this, when does he shed this blood>
 
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PennEd said:
The sins of the past Paul is referring to are sins that were committed by mankind in the past, BEFORE JESUS' DEATH AND RESURRECTION. NOT the future sins of the born again.
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If only so, then none of your sins are forgiven. You lived and sinned after Calvary, not before it.
 
TulafonoESefulu said:
Let's begin again and see what is the discrepancy between us.

Do you acknowledge, as I do (based upon scripture, Hebrews, Revelation, etc), that there is a real Sanctuary that Jesus ascended to in the 3rd Heaven?
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No

The sanctuary was a teaching tool. It showed Israel, and us, how impossible it was for us to enter the presence of God. At one Time, God actually did appear there. But I am not even sure that has happened even after Babylonian freedom. Its why the high priest would die if his sins were not properly taken care of.

It represents the whole of heaven, or the place where God resides. And remember, God is everywhere, Even here, we just can not see him. .
 
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TulafonoESefulu said:
Brother, I do not devalue one iota of the perfect atoning blood sacrifice of Jesus. I also do not devalue the work in the Holy Place when Jesus ascended, and where John saw Him (Rev. 1, and looking into the Holy Place, Rev 4:1 from the courtyard of earth) and where the Father received Him (Jesus) (Rev 4-5). I also do not devalue Jesus and the Father's transition into the Most Holy Place at a later time (specific by prophecy; Daniel 8:13-14,26; Revelation 9:13-15, 10:6, 11:1, 14:6-7) as seen in Revelation 3:7-8; Daniel 7:13. I do not devalue even a small bit of it, but treasure all of it.

I am sorry I upset you in one way, but not in another. I do not relish this, but it is necessary. Perhaps, one day, before it is too late, you will spend some time with me on the simple questions about Hebrews.
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I have been studying the truth for over 33 years and you my friend are conflating numerous truths into that which is incorrect.......Perhaps, one day, you will open your eyes to what we have been saying......and yes....YOU are devaluing what JESUS has done on numerous levels.......
 
TulafonoESefulu said:
If only so, then none of your sins are forgiven. You lived and sinned after Calvary, not before it.
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The born again Child of God's past, present, and future sins have been paid in full by Jesus Christ.

Why are you so blinded that you cannot see that Paul was referring to the sins of people BEFORE JESUS' DEATH AND RESURRECTION?
 
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9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
I John 1:9
 
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PennEd said:
The born again Child of God's past, present, and future sins have been paid in full by Jesus Christ.

Why are you so blinded that you cannot see that Paul was referring to the sins of people BEFORE JESUS' DEATH AND RESURRECTION?
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AMEN.....PAID in FULL <---IT is finished was a Legal accounting term.........and the verbiage was....the sins of the WHOLE WORLD......
 
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TulafonoESefulu said:
The "sanctified" logic is inescapable.
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Depends

There is positional sanctification, also called being “made perfect) which God says is forever

“Hebrews 10: 14a for by one offering he has perfected forever”

Then There is conditional sanctification (We are a work in progress)

Hebrews 10: 14b (those who being sanctified)
 
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TulafonoESefulu said:
The "sanctified" logic is inescapable.
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I totally believe God is very logical which is why so many have a hard time accepting the fact He sent His only Son to take our place

they don't understand how God goes right past human reasoning and employs His own logic, which satisfies His desire to once again have communion with His sinful errant creation and at the same time allows these sinful people to have their sins forgiven so that they may once again approach

God does not sanctify our logic. He boots it the hee haw out of the way and purifies our hearts
 
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