The hatred of Jews

[Cameron143]

Have you read the writings of Josephus or just portions of it?

Portions

 

[ZNP]

Read Deuteronomy 28:15 to the end. It very clearly teaches what will happen if Israel doesn't keep all the terms of the covenant. Now read Revelation 16 as the vials are poured out noting the similarities between the promised curses and what is poured out from the vials.

It's also worth reading the 3 parables beginning in Matthew 21:28 to 22:14. These parables deal with the succession of the kingdom. In 21:43 Jesus clearly says that the kingdom will be taken from them and given to another.

It's also worth reading Josephus's account of the destruction of Jerusalem and how closely it is to the language of the Bible.

Revelation is dealing with the destruction of Israel and the temple. And Revelation matches the curses God promised if Israel was unfaithful to the covenant in Deuteronomy.

Once again, simply provide the verse reference. I have read Deuteronomy 28 today and no, it never says that the covenant will come to an end, rather it says if you disobey you will be punished.

 

[Squigglylines]

Portions

I thought so. In years past it was a tool of Preterism to toss out the read Josephus part and one liners but the problem then rose up that some of those pesky futurist decided to read it for themselves and so now it's old school to toss out the Josephus challenge anymore.

 

[Squigglylines]

Once again, simply provide the verse reference. I have read Deuteronomy 28 today and no, it never says that the covenant will come to an end, rather it says if you disobey you will be punished.

Have you ever read the writings of Josephus?

 

[ZNP]

Have you ever read the writings of Josephus?

A little, portions of it.

 

[Squigglylines]

A little, portions of it.

Considering the position you hold I would suggest you do so it would benefit your position and not harm it. other than that seeing neither of you have it wouldn't make sense to discuss it at this time.

 

[Cameron143]

Once again, simply provide the verse reference. I have read Deuteronomy 28 today and no, it never says that the covenant will come to an end, rather it says if you disobey you will be punished.

Read the last few verses. He sends them back to Egypt by water. This is the exact opposite of how God brought them out...through water. God is undoing what He had done. He brought them out through water and made them a nation. For not keeping the terms of the covenant, God returns them by water.

 

[Cameron143]

I thought so. In years past it was a tool of Preterism to toss out the read Josephus part and one liners but the problem then rose up that some of those pesky futurist decided to read it for themselves and so now it's old school to toss out the Josephus challenge anymore.

It's nearly word for word. And I am old school. Hope you are reading all that is shared and not just parts.

 

[ZNP]

Read the last few verses. He sends them back to Egypt by water. This is the exact opposite of how God brought them out...through water. God is undoing what He had done. He brought them out through water and made them a nation. For not keeping the terms of the covenant, God returns them by water.

You cannot have an inferential teaching, that is bogus. You can use types and shadows to shade in teachings based on the black and white word. For example, when God says He makes an everlasting covenant, that is a black and white word you can hang your hat on. Making a doctrine on inferential teachings based on types and figures is completely bogus, you can make it to say anything you want.

 

[Squigglylines]

It's nearly word for word. And I am old school. Hope you are reading all that is shared and not just parts.

it would probably amaze you at the thousands of people that read along with all the post made here day after day and the things we discuss amongst ourselves in emails about them.

 

[ZNP]

This is the problem with this doctrine. Someone saw that verses interpreted to be about the end of the age would also apply to 70 AD and so they went and ran off the deep end. Yes, there are very clear similarities and references to 70 AD, like I said, the age began in the same way that it will end. But this doctrine is built on sand, not on the black and white word, and so you get into endless wrangling. Total waste of everyone's time.

I can appreciate that traditional doctrines have made a lot of mistakes. But when you push a doctrine that is so blatantly contradictory to all the great Bible expositors in history you need to make sure your scholarship is precise and exact, and so far what you have shared is a complete waste of time. You quote verses that clearly and explicitly say that the covenant has not passed away, it is near to passing away, and then use that as a basis to say that it has passed away.

I ask for a simple verse that says the covenant has an expiration date and you can't provide it. Instead you give some fuzzy analogy. This is the biggest waste of time, I hate this useless debates over ridiculous doctrines that are pointless.

I would appreciate it if I am allowed to leave this discussion and not return to it. Thankyou.

 

[Squigglylines]

Then again fast forward 466 or so years to 535ad and the known worlds history makes ad70 look not near as close in detail of the events unfolding.

 

[Cameron143]

You cannot have an inferential teaching, that is bogus. You can use types and shadows to shade in teachings based on the black and white word. For example, when God says He makes an everlasting covenant, that is a black and white word you can hang your hat on. Making a doctrine on inferential teachings based on types and figures is completely bogus, you can make it to say anything you want.

You can ignore what I shared if you like.

 

[Cameron143]

This is the problem with this doctrine. Someone saw that verses interpreted to be about the end of the age would also apply to 70 AD and so they went and ran off the deep end. Yes, there are very clear similarities and references to 70 AD, like I said, the age began in the same way that it will end. But this doctrine is built on sand, not on the black and white word, and so you get into endless wrangling. Total waste of everyone's time.

I can appreciate that traditional doctrines have made a lot of mistakes. But when you push a doctrine that is so blatantly contradictory to all the great Bible expositors in history you need to make sure your scholarship is precise and exact, and so far what you have shared is a complete waste of time. You quote verses that clearly and explicitly say that the covenant has not passed away, it is near to passing away, and then use that as a basis to say that it has passed away.

I ask for a simple verse that says the covenant has an expiration date and you can't provide it. Instead you give some fuzzy analogy. This is the biggest waste of time, I hate this useless debates over ridiculous doctrines that are pointless.

I would appreciate it if I am allowed to leave this discussion and not return to it. Thankyou.

Read Hebrews 8:13 again. The old covenant was decaying and waxing old and is ready to vanish. Does that actually sound to you like it will continue another 2,000 years? And if there is no longer any Jew or Greek, how can they be separated by covenant? And why would anyone want to live under a covenant they cannot possibly keep?

I connected enough dots for you to understand. But that would mean you could no longer hold onto the things you have invested so much in.

 

[mailmandan]

Pro-Hezbollah Rally In Dearborn Features Anti-American and Anti-Israel Rhetoric

Pro-Hezbollah Rally In Dearborn Features Anti-American and Anti-Israel Rhetoric | The Gateway Pundit | by Seth Segal

This type of garbage should NEVER be tolerated in America!

 

[ZNP]

Pro-Hezbollah Rally In Dearborn Features Anti-American and Anti-Israel Rhetoric

Pro-Hezbollah Rally In Dearborn Features Anti-American and Anti-Israel Rhetoric | The Gateway Pundit | by Seth Segal

This type of garbage should NEVER be tolerated in America!

Don't worry, the Pact for the Future has made censorship the Law of the land for the whole world. You can be sure when the Antichrist takes power only the approved narrative from the one world government will be allowed to be spoken. These things take time. The law is in place the next thing they must do is remove the US as an impediment to their plan. I expect they will before this upcoming election.

 

[Yahshua]

Read Deuteronomy 28:15 to the end. It very clearly teaches what will happen if Israel doesn't keep all the terms of the covenant. Now read Revelation 16 as the vials are poured out noting the similarities between the promised curses and what is poured out from the vials.

It's also worth reading the 3 parables beginning in Matthew 21:28 to 22:14. These parables deal with the succession of the kingdom. In 21:43 Jesus clearly says that the kingdom will be taken from them and given to another.

It's also worth reading Josephus's account of the destruction of Jerusalem and how closely it is to the language of the Bible.

Revelation is dealing with the destruction of Israel and the temple. And Revelation matches the curses God promised if Israel was unfaithful to the covenant in Deuteronomy.

Moses' pronouncement/prophecy doesn't end at the end of Chapter 28 (because there originally weren't chapter & verse breaks). If we keep reading past Chapter 28 and continue with Moses' words he also says:

Deut 29:14-15
I am making this covenant, with its oath, not only with you who are standing here with us today in the presence of the Lord our God but also with those who are not here today.

So that means future generations, which then begs the question "How many generations"? Was it a specific number or was the covenant throughout all generations? Next Moses says...


Deut 30:1-3
When all these blessings and curses I have set before you come on you and you take them to heart wherever the Lord your God disperses you among the nations, and when you and your children return to the Lord your God and obey him with all your heart and with all your soul according to everything I command you today [same day he began to speak those previous chapters], 3 then the Lord your God will restore your fortunes and have compassion on you and gather you again from all the nations where he scattered you.


Moses concluded the covenant in chapter 30. The name "Deuteronomy" is a compound word ("deutero" = "two/second" and "nomy" = "Law". Recall that Moses broke the first set of tablets when Israel broke the covenant not 40 days after covenanting with Almighty at the mountain). So this covenant included:

- future generations not yet alive are participants in the covenant
- the terms/rules the covenant applied to
- the blessings for obedience
- the curses for disobedience
- the assurance that they would definitely disobey the rules and be cursed/punished/scattered
- the promise to restore & regather them AFTER they return to obedience while IN the land of their punishment/scattering


So, the promise to regather them from scattering (if they repent and obey) is part of the covenant...and if it wasn't until after they rejected Messiah in the first century that the curses/punishments were activated (including their scattering), then the covenant was/is still active and that the promise is to those generations born even later. The problem is that they can never fulfill the last portion without believing in the Messiah because only He (and His Spirit) has the heart to obey The Almighty (i.e., the law placed in their hearts and minds).

And so the New Covenant is stacked atop the Old where sacrificing for sin is no longer necessary and where belief in the Messiah will give the people the heart to obey thereby justifying The Father to restore and regather them back to His land as promised for obedience.

This is why some of us argue that the promise for them to be returned to the land is still alive today but that there is no return without belief in the Messiah. They must accept the Messiah and be part of the New Covenant to fulfill the Old Covenant to return them home.

God's words can't return to Him void.

 

[Cameron143]

Moses' pronouncement/prophecy doesn't end at the end of Chapter 28 (because there originally weren't chapter & verse breaks). If we keep reading past Chapter 28 and continue with Moses' words he also says:

Deut 29:14-15
I am making this covenant, with its oath, not only with you who are standing here with us today in the presence of the Lord our God but also with those who are not here today.

So that means future generations, which then begs the question "How many generations"? Was it a specific number or was the covenant throughout all generations? Next Moses says...


Deut 30:1-3
When all these blessings and curses I have set before you come on you and you take them to heart wherever the Lord your God disperses you among the nations, and when you and your children return to the Lord your God and obey him with all your heart and with all your soul according to everything I command you today [same day he began to speak those previous chapters], 3 then the Lord your God will restore your fortunes and have compassion on you and gather you again from all the nations where he scattered you.


Moses concluded the covenant in chapter 30. The name "Deuteronomy" is a compound word ("deutero" = "two/second" and "nomy" = "Law". Recall that Moses broke the first set of tablets when Israel broke the covenant not 40 days after covenanting with Almighty at the mountain). So this covenant included:

- future generations not yet alive are participants in the covenant
- the terms/rules the covenant applied to
- the blessings for obedience
- the curses for disobedience
- the assurance that they would definitely disobey the rules and be cursed/punished/scattered
- the promise to restore & regather them AFTER they return to obedience while IN the land of their punishment/scattering


So, the promise to regather them from scattering (if they repent and obey) is part of the covenant...and if it wasn't until after they rejected Messiah in the first century that the curses/punishments were activated (including their scattering), then the covenant was/is still active and that the promise is to those generations born even later. The problem is that they can never fulfill the last portion without believing in the Messiah because only He (and His Spirit) has the heart to obey The Almighty (i.e., the law placed in their hearts and minds).

And so the New Covenant is stacked atop the Old where sacrificing for sin is no longer necessary and where belief in the Messiah will give the people the heart to obey thereby justifying The Father to restore and regather them back to His land as promised for obedience.

This is why some of us argue that the promise for them to be returned to the land is still alive today but that there is no return without belief in the Messiah. They must accept the Messiah and be part of the New Covenant to fulfill the Old Covenant to return them home.

God's words can't return to Him void.

If Deuteronomy was the extent of scripture I might agree. And future generations can be added to a covenant and the covenant still end. But if you read the 3 parables between Matthew 21:28 to 22:14, Jesus actually says in 21:43 that the kingdom is taken from them, and gives the timing. After His death. All 3 together depict the kingdom being taken from Israel, the destruction of Israel, and God continuing to build His kingdom with another group.

 

[Magenta]

You cannot have an inferential teaching, that is bogus. You can use types and shadows to shade in teachings based on the black and white word. For example, when God says He makes an everlasting covenant, that is a black and white word you can hang your hat on. Making a doctrine on inferential teachings based on types and figures is completely bogus, you can make it to say anything you want.

Do you reject the trinity and/or Deity of Jesus Christ based on that line of reasoning?

 

[Publican]

News flash pal.

YOU murdered Jesus. It was YOUR sin that put Him on that cross.

Jesus did NOT lay His murder at the feet of those that actually did the nailing.

And stop with the hate that the Jews in Israel aren’t really Jews nonsense.

True Christians ABSOLUTELY worship a Jew!

You and your ilk need to be constantly reminded that Jesus was, is, and always will remain a Jew!

I’ve come across some of your kind that hate the Jews so much that refuse to even acknowledge that Jesus is a Jew.

The Jews in Israel are not Jews, if by Jew you mean descended from the Patriarchs. The Palestinians that are being wholesale slaughtered by your precious Jews, are more closely related to the Patriarchs than any fake Ashkenazi name stealer.

Put down your Satanic Scofield Bible and do some actual research.

Of course Christ died for our sins, but the Jews handed him over to the Romans and said let his blood be on our hands. Just like the fake Jews have been doing for centuries. They start wars and have your children fight them.

Israel is the largest terrorist state in the world and the US is their henchman. If you want to continue to support Satan's kingdom here on Earth go right ahead. Help the Jews build his temple for heavens sake. But spare me with this Jew hatred horse crap.