The Commandments of God (according to scripture)

[Cameron143]

Mat 7: 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

The devil believes in Jesus.....

You believe these to be conditions of salvation. I believe they are characteristic of those who believe.

 

[Cameron143]

If Jesus paid all our debts and set us free from the guilty charges against us, should we go out and continue in sin believing Jesus will continue to pay.?
If we are freed from a speeding fine because Jesus paid the price in full, should we continue to speed?

Jesus paid once and for all. So He doesn't continue to pay. But if you understand what transpires in a believer at the onset of salvation and onward, you will understand why they do not continue in sin.

 

[posthuman]

Not contradictory scripture.

of course not.
it's your misuse that's contradictory.

sin exists apart from law, and goodness exists apart from evil.

 

[Poinsetta]

which happened first?

• Satan falls
• the tree of knowledge of good from evil is placed in the garden

satan falls

 

[Cameron143]

OK here's an easier one:

which happened first?

• the tree of knowledge of good from evil is placed in the garden
• Adam is told not to eat of it

Do you have any easy ones like chicken or egg?

 

[posthuman]

We have already been judged to be righteous. God's standard has been met by Christ. Those in Him can only be viewed by God as righteous.

yes, in Christ we are declared the righteousness of God by faith.

Romans 1:17​

For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, "The righteous shall live by faith."​

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Romans 5:1​

Therefore, since we have been declared righteous by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.​

​

The man who is judged by the law is cursed, not saved. the man who subjects men to law curses them, not saves them. it is for this reason we died, in order to have salvation - there is only one Way to Life, and it is Christ

Romans 7:4​

Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to Him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God.​

The reconciliation is in the death of Christ, having atoned permanently once and for all for the sin of those who trust in Him. those whose trust is anything else are condemned already, but we who believe, we have passed from judgment into life.

 

[Soyeong]

Soyeong, there will be NO sin in Heaven simply because GOD himself will be with his people and the commandments will be in their flesh and heart, refer the prophecy of Jeremiah and also the book of revelations. There will be no more sin.

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Rev 22:1 Then the angel showed me a river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb
Rev 22:2 down the middle of the main street of the city. On either side of the river stood a tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit and yielding a fresh crop for each month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.
Rev 22:3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be within the city, and His servants will worship Him.
Rev 22:4 They will see His face, and His name will be on their foreheads.
Rev 22:5 There will be no more night in the city, and they will have no need for the light of a lamp or of the sun. For the Lord God will shine on them, and they will reign forever and ever.

Blessings.

There is a difference between sin existing in the sense of it being a sin to commit adultery and not existing in the sense that no one is committing adultery it heaven. The fact that God's commandments are written on our hears means that sin exists in the sense that it is a sin to not follow them.

 

[Soyeong]

Wouldn't that be hell that serves this purpose?

Sin existing eternally is part of what it means for God's nature being eternal. In other words, God's nature being eternal means that it will always be a sin to commit adultery, so that is not a purpose that hell serves.

 

[Soyeong]

what prevents another fall of the angels and of man?
you're describing potentially infinite recurrence of sin & death.

you seem to have a worldview in which God never actually "solves" the accusation of Satan, making evil equivalent to God by giving it an eternal nature.

do you really believe that God cannot be good unless wickedness exists?

The fact that the way to act in accordance with God's nature is eternal means that the way to not act in accordance with God's nature is also eternal. This is unrelated to what prevents another fall or to a potentially infinite recurrence of sin and death or saying that evil is equivalent to God. It would meaningless for God to be good without something that defines what is and is not good, so the moment "good" is defined, "not-good" is also defined by being its opposite.

 

[Cameron143]

Sin existing eternally is part of what it means for God's nature being eternal. In other words, God's nature being eternal means that it will always be a sin to commit adultery, so that is not a purpose that hell serves.

That's horribly wrong. God is eternal irrespective of the existence of sin. Was God not eternal before sin occurred?

 

[TMS]

I'm never advocating for sin. I understand where the question comes from, but my answer is the same as Paul...God forbid. Jesus has set us free from sin. Our liberty should never be an occasion for sin.
But we both die with Christ and are raised in Him. Having been justified by God, there is simply nothing left that is able to condemn us. We are as the woman caught in adultery. All our accusers are gone and God Himself does not condemn us. But like her, we are not to continue in sin.
As far as forgiveness goes, God is free to forgive anyone He likes. He is, after all, sovereign. But He is also just. And His justice demands satisfaction of His wrath for sin. That's where Jesus comes in. He allows God to remain just and also justify us. So while we are forgiven as we confess, we are not forgiven because we confess. We are forgiven because God's anger over our sins has been assuaged.

I agree Mercy and Justice is perfect with God.

The law demands our death but mercy wants to free us.
It is all possible because of Jesus.

If the law could have been deleted (taken away) then the death of Jesus would not be required.
The law remains and Justification comes by faith.

We are freed by faith but this is not an excuse to continue to sin.
You agree but when asked to obey the whole law, all 10 of the commandments you find reason to forget the sabbath law.

I don't believe in righteousness by works, but that love should motivate us to "go and sin no more".
If we fail (which we all do) we have an advocate but to know it is wrong and continue to do it, is like purposely crucifying Jesus again.

Sin has not changed.
The definition of what is sin has not changed. And if it can be changed Justice has not been served.

We are not to continue in sin like the woman and it was sin to not obey any of the 10 commandments in Jesus's day and after Jesus died.
Jas 2:10-12 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

 

[Cameron143]

I agree Mercy and Justice is perfect with God.

The law demands our death but mercy wants to free us.
It is all possible because of Jesus.

If the law could have been deleted (taken away) then the death of Jesus would not be required.
The law remains and Justification comes by faith.

We are freed by faith but this is not an excuse to continue to sin.
You agree but when asked to obey the whole law, all 10 of the commandments you find reason to forget the sabbath law.

I don't believe in righteousness by works, but that love should motivate us to "go and sin no more".
If we fail (which we all do) we have an advocate but to know it is wrong and continue to do it, is like purposely crucifying Jesus again.

Sin has not changed.
The definition of what is sin has not changed. And if it can be changed Justice has not been served.

We are not to continue in sin like the woman and it was sin to not obey any of the 10 commandments in Jesus's day and after Jesus died.
Jas 2:10-12 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

I'm a Gentile. What was required of Gentile believers?
Also, there was a transition period between the 2 covenants. The old covenant didn't abruptly end. It faded as new revelation was given.

 

[TMS]

You believe these to be conditions of salvation. I believe they are characteristic of those who believe.

I was quoting that Scripture (Mat 7:20...Jam 2...) because you said ..
all we need to do is believe.
The point being that many who do believe and think they are saved will not end up being saved.
The devil believes and understands the plan of salvation but he will not be saved.
Faith without works is dead.

And if the motive isn't right God knows.
By their fruits you will know them.

The only condition is Jesus Christ.
Justification and sanctification by faith.
Imputed and imparted righteousness by faith.

 

[Soyeong]

You are simply backloading works into salvation. It's not a question about keeping the law. Every true believer makes a practice of keeping the commandments. The question is: is it evidence of salvation or necessary to maintain salvation?
The answer to this question tells whether you believe salvation is of grace or not. You do not. You make yourself responsible for maintaining your salvation. Jesus, in your case, is only the author of your faith, but not the finisher of your faith. Good luck trying to perfect your faith. No one else ever has. I'd root for you in this except that would mean I'm rooting for your destruction.

Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so living in obedience to God's law is not something external to salvation that we need to do first in order to have it, or that maintains it, or that is evidence of it, but rather living in obedience to it is intrinsically the content of what God's gift of salvation is. For example, honoring our parents is intrinsically the content of God's gift of saving us from not honoring our parents. In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith.

Should have stopped at 3:18...he who believes in Him is not condemned...simply believe. Anything else you add as a condition, and not as an evidence, adds to scripture.

The way that we choose to live expresses what we believe. In other words, our goal is to be in God's image, so if we believe that God is good, then we will do good, if we believe that God is just, then we will do what is just, and so forth. God is trustworthy, therefore His law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so the way to trust God is by obediently trusting in God's instructions, and it is contradictory to think that we just need to trust God instead of trusting in His instructions. In Proverbs 3:5-7, we have a choice between whether we are going to lean on our own understanding of right and wrong by doing what is right in our own eyes or whether we are going to trust God with all of our heart to correctly divide between right and wrong by obeying His instructions in all of our ways and He will make our way straight.

This is why the Bible repeatedly connects our belief/faith in God with our obedience to Him. For example, in Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the law. In James 2:18, he would show his faith by his works. In Romans 1:5, we have received grace in order to bring about the obedience of faith. In Romans 3:31, our faith upholds God's law. In Revelation 14:12, those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God's commandments. In John 3:36, believing in Jesus is equated with obeying him. In Hebrews 11, every example of faith is an example of works. In Numbers 5:6, disobedience to God's law is described as breaking faith. In Hebrews 3:18-19, unbelief is equated with disobedience. And so forth, so the Bible never treats belief as being an alternative to obedience to God.

If you are under the law you can't be forgiven. Your sins would not be paid for. You can only be forgiven if you are not under the law.

Nowhere does the Bible say that.

That's horribly wrong. God is eternal irrespective of the existence of sin. Was God not eternal before sin occurred?

Sin is what is contrary to God's nature, so the fact that God's nature is eternal, means that what is contrary to God's nature is also eternal. When people commit sin is a different issue than what sin is.

 

[TMS]

The reconciliation is in the death of Christ, having atoned permanently once and for all for the sin of those who trust in Him. those whose trust is anything else are condemned already, but we who believe, we have passed from judgment into life.

Can I look at the law to see if I'm sinning or not?
Can I keep the law because I love Jesus?

How does sanctification happen? Is it instant when you believe?

Is there a judgement for you and me?

 

[TMS]

There is a difference between sin existing in the sense of it being a sin to commit adultery and not existing in the sense that no one is committing adultery it heaven. The fact that God's commandments are written on our hears means that sin exists in the sense that it is a sin to not follow them.

Sin is the transgression of the law.
In heaven no one will transgress the law which means that sin will not rise a second time. The law will be obeyed and will be a delight because it is love

 

[TMS]

The 10 commandments are not the old covenant. They were part of the old covenant and are part of the new covenant.

Heb 10:16-20
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. 19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

The law is to be written on our hearts not removed.

 

[Soyeong]

Sin is the transgression of the law.
In heaven no one will transgress the law which means that sin will not rise a second time. The law will be obeyed and will be a delight because it is love

The fact that no one will commit sin doesn't change the fact that sin will remain what is against God's eternal nature.

 

[Magenta]

I'm never advocating for sin. I understand where the question comes from, but my answer is the same as Paul...God forbid. Jesus has set us free from sin. Our liberty should never be an occasion for sin.
But we both die with Christ and are raised in Him. Having been justified by God, there is simply nothing left that is able to condemn us. We are as the woman caught in adultery. All our accusers are gone and God Himself does not condemn us. But like her, we are not to continue in sin.
As far as forgiveness goes, God is free to forgive anyone He likes. He is, after all, sovereign. But He is also just. And His justice demands satisfaction of His wrath for sin. That's where Jesus comes in. He allows God to remain just and also justify us. So while we are forgiven as we confess, we are not forgiven because we confess. We are forgiven because God's anger over our sins has been assuaged.

Romans 8:1-2; 5:57 + 58b

 

[Magenta]

Believers can't. They are sealed.
You believe what you think scripture says.

Ephesians 1:13-14