Speaking in tongues

[cv5]

When some one states that I am not filled with the Holy Spirit because I do not speak in tongues, that person is a liar.
Every born again believer is filled with the Holy Spirit the instant he is saved.

Actually....the new believer is SEALED by the Holy Spirt immediately. Filling and refilling is sporadic and episodic, and at God's desire and purpose. Paul was "filled" multiple times. Peter also and Stephen as well. In the OT, Samson was filled episodically as well.

 

[Wansvic]

There is a difference in receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, with the evidence of speaking in tongues, and receiving spiritual gifts…

The gift of the Holy Ghost as referenced by Peter on the Day of Pentecost is referenced in the Book of Acts…
“But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: (Acts 2:16-17)

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. (Acts 2:38:39) Notice the promise is for the people present and their children and those in the future. See also, Acts 8:12 (Samaritans conversion), Acts 10:44-48 (Gentile conversion), and Acts 19:1-6.

Jesus stated that the Holy Spirit will be given to them that ask…
“If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?” (Luke 11:13)



Spiritual gifts are bestowed by the Spirit to Christians to edify the church and draw others to Jesus.

“Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.” (1 Corinthians 12:1-11)

 

[presidente]

No, it's you who are reading into the text not reading out of the text.

You are doing the same thing to the texts in Corinthians. You infer that what Paul is writing about in Corinthians are the same events that occurred in Acts. All the while you cannot draw any connection between what happens when Pentecostals speak in tongues is the same speaking that is found in the bible.

You are creating doctrine to support behavior not shaping behavior according to biblical doctrine. No grasping at straws just demanding biblical support.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

These are all passages about speaking in tongues/languages. Acts 2 was different from the instructions for the use of the gift in a church setting in I Corinthians 14. In Acts 2, people present understand. In I Corinthians 12, people present do not understand.

Interpreting the new tongues/languages of Mark 16....in the context of a list of supernatural things...to refer to the type of tongues found in Acts makes a lot of sense. Saying 'new tongue' really refers to new hearts makes much less sense.

 

[presidente]

Actually....the new believer is SEALED by the Holy Spirt immediately. Filling and refilling is sporadic and episodic, and at God's desire and purpose. Paul was "filled" multiple times. Peter also and Stephen as well. In the OT, Samson was filled episodically as well.

The Spirit of the LORD came upon Samson.

 

[Wansvic]

Actually....the new believer is SEALED by the Holy Spirt immediately. Filling and refilling is sporadic and episodic, and at God's desire and purpose. Paul was "filled" multiple times. Peter also and Stephen as well. In the OT, Samson was filled episodically as well.

Why did Paul ask disciples "Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?" Acts 19:1-6 If one is filled with the Spirit when they first believe?

 

[cv5]

Why did Paul ask disciples "Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?" Acts 19:1-6 If one is filled with the Spirit when they first believe?

I know exactly why. Precisely. The matter is quite settled scripturally.
But between wanting to know and knowing was much gathering of manna.

 

[garee]

I do not know what point exactly you are trying to get from I Corinthians 14:11 or how you thin it ties in to your other comments.

But in Paul's argument, it makes sense. Barbarians are foreigners. It is believed that a barbarian was someone who said 'bar bar bar' instead of speaking Greek--that it was a word to describe speakers of unknown languages.

If you speak to a foreigner who speaks a foreign language, you do not understand each other. Paul is describing the Corinthians speaking in tongues by comparing them to speaking in other languages naturally.

He is comparing their actual language which he does not know to His actual language they did not know. And the reference in 1 Corinthians 14 :11 informs us of that exact thing. Two people getting together both not understand the language of the other are barbarians to one another. It would like two people making noises or children clanging together kettles with no understanding. Just to hear they can make a noise

.Grunt said grunt to umph, and the other grunt grunted back....uhg.

The sign of tongues confirms unbelief no faith. No sign for those who do believe prophecy of hear God as he clearly interprets His word.

 

[PS]

When some one states that I am not filled with the Holy Spirit because I do not speak in tongues, that person is a liar.
Every born again believer is filled with the Holy Spirit the instant he is saved.

The gifts of the Holy Spirit need to be sought after we accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Saviour.

But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. (8) For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; (9) To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; (10) To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 1Co 12:7-10 KJV

There are many who call themselves Christians but are not. The manifestation of the gifts in a persons life are the outward evidence of the inward dwelling of the Holy Spirit.

 

[PS]

Actually....the new believer is SEALED by the Holy Spirt immediately. Filling and refilling is sporadic and episodic, and at God's desire and purpose. Paul was "filled" multiple times. Peter also and Stephen as well. In the OT, Samson was filled episodically as well.

What you are seeing with Paul and the apostles is the outward evidence of the indwelling Holy Spirit, rather than a re-filling. We need to seek the gifts of the Holy Spirit from the Lord, otherwise we are but empty vessels.

 

[garee]

Again, the actual details of I Corinthians 14 do not support your contention here. Gifts are given for the common good. But if an individual edifies himself in prayer, it does work for the common good if he is stronger in the Lord, more encouraged, and able to minister to others. Paul said he would pray with the spirit and with the understanding. So it is not a bad thing.

Jude also says to edify yourself in the most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost. If you are alone praying in a closet somewhere, is that forbidden if you actually edify yourself by doing so? Is it a sin to read the Bible to edify yourself? David strengthened himself in the Lord. That is not wrong.

In the assembly, though, we are to seek to edify the whole assembly.

You are stetching what Paul said to such an extent that you contradict other parts of the book.

No such thing as "self edification" a form of personal pride.It is as we are informed in 1 Corinthians 4 what does anyone have that they have not freely received from God and if they have received it freely with no cost or work on their behalf. Why would they venerate their own selves as in false pride? Sounds like Catholisicim . Who ever gets venerated the highest gets the most authority.

Jesus said in Mathew 23 to those who seek to venerate or edify oneself go all the way to the full measure . I will ascend to the clouds I will be like God.

Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? Mathew 23:32- 33

Man plants the seed. God does the raising up or causes the growth. We edify Him who raises us up building up His body .

 

[cv5]

What you are seeing with Paul and the apostles is the outward evidence of the indwelling Holy Spirit, rather than a re-filling. We need to seek the gifts of the Holy Spirit from the Lord, otherwise we are but empty vessels.

Nonsense. Do a search for the term "filled with the Spirit". There is a purposeful flowing and filling distict from the arrabon sealing.

 

[Noose]

Again, the actual details of I Corinthians 14 do not support your contention here. Gifts are given for the common good. But if an individual edifies himself in prayer, it does work for the common good if he is stronger in the Lord, more encouraged, and able to minister to others. Paul said he would pray with the spirit and with the understanding. So it is not a bad thing.

Jude also says to edify yourself in the most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost. If you are alone praying in a closet somewhere, is that forbidden if you actually edify yourself by doing so? Is it a sin to read the Bible to edify yourself? David strengthened himself in the Lord. That is not wrong.

In the assembly, though, we are to seek to edify the whole assembly.

You are stetching what Paul said to such an extent that you contradict other parts of the book.

Paul wrote to the church in Corinth. Corinth was not someone's personal closet, it was an assembly where things were going wrong. I'm also arguing because there's something wrong in today's assemblies, not because of people's personal closet where they make private prayer and read the bible. I'm still using Paul's argument for the assembly in Corinth, for what's happening today.

How did i know and therefore claim the tongues today are fake if it is not being spoken in public?
The churches today still don't have personal prayer booths/closet so that people may journey from their home to pray in them within the church- why would anyone do that?

Jude says "..build yourselves.." not "..build yourself..." and Jude is talking about a church setting and not a home setting. In an assembly, you can not build yourself and still claim to love, it is the opposite of love.

1 Cor 13: 4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no account of wrongs.

 

[garee]

The gifts of the Holy Spirit need to be sought after we accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Saviour.

But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. (8) For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; (9) To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; (10) To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 1Co 12:7-10 KJV

There are many who call themselves Christians but are not. The manifestation of the gifts in a persons life are the outward evidence of the inward dwelling of the Holy Spirit.

There is no outward gift that would confirm a person is being moved by the Holy Spirit .We walk by faith all our live in respect to the goal.... a new incorruptible body . Only God can see the heart of man and move him if it is the will of Him to do so.

The evidence is a contrite heart subject to do the will of another by continuing to walk by the faith of Christ, that dwells in the believer.

 

[PS]

Nonsense. Do a search for the term "filled with the Spirit". There is a purposeful flowing and filling distict from the arrabon sealing.

Exo_28:3 And thou shalt speak unto all that are wise hearted, whom I have filled with the spirit of wisdom, that they may make Aaron's garments to consecrate him, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office.

Eph_5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

??

 

[Noose]

Is your other point that witnesses and proclaimers of the gospel MUST die for the necessary efficacy to be activated? Not too sure what you mean.

Only 1st century church or 1st hand witnesses who were appointed by God to spread the gospel. These are the people who were given the gifts to help them spread the gospel- basically, Jesus spoke through them until Jesus' words and action were recorded in the scriptures.
They were not given authority to appoint others in a never ending cascade, Jesus' words are now with us in the scripture and they are spirit.


Paul forbade some of his crew members from teaching because they were not appointed to do that:

1 Tim 1:
1Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the command of God our Savior and of Christ Jesus our hope,

2To Timothy my true son in the faith:

Grace, mercy and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.


3As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain people not to teach false doctrines any longer 4or to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God’s work—which is by faith. 5The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.6Some have departed from these and have turned to meaningless talk. 7They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.

 

[cv5]

Exo_28:3 And thou shalt speak unto all that are wise hearted, whom I have filled with the spirit of wisdom, that they may make Aaron's garments to consecrate him, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office.

Eph_5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

??

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=*filled*spirit*&qs_version=ESV

There are many many more similar verses and incidents.

 

[PS]

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=*filled*spirit*&qs_version=ESV

There are many many more similar verses and incidents.

Are you saying that after they are filled with the Holy Spirit, it is then taken away from them?

 

[cv5]

Are you saying that after they are filled with the Holy Spirit, it is then taken away from them?

No. There is a permanent arrabon sealing that never fails, and then a POSSIBILITY of a filling and refilling over and over depending on Gods particular purposes.

 

[PS]

No. There is a permanent arrabon sealing that never fails, and then a POSSIBILITY of a filling and refilling over and over depending on Gods particular purposes.

Arrabon only occurs three times and means guarantee. I reckon that guarantee is for all time. Don't you?

2Co 1:22 He put his mark on us to show that we are his. Yes, he put his Spirit in our hearts as the first payment that guarantees all that he will give us.

2Co 5:5 God has prepared us for this and has given us his Spirit as a guarantee.

Eph 1:14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until God redeems his own possession for his praise and glory.

 

[presidente]

The sign of tongues confirms unbelief no faith. No sign for those who do believe prophecy of hear God as he clearly interprets His word.

Unbelief on the part of whom? The 12 apostles and Paul spoke with tongues. Are you saying they had unbelief or no faith?

Don't you reject the operation of the gift of prophecy in the church today?