Speaking in tongues
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Hebrews 10:24-25 King James Version (KJV)
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.. People have different interpretations of scriptures, it is good to come together even for this purpose. Not all churches just preach, there are
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.. People have different interpretations of scriptures, it is good to come together even for this purpose. Not all churches just preach, there are
Praying in the spirit is when your prayer is under the anointing of the holy spirit but I do not believe someone can pray in tongue and not understand what he/She is saying, that would be total confusion. One can pray in the spirit with known tongue, just that your prayer is under the leading of the Holy spirit
In KJV English we seethe same thing. The. Verse does not say they will speak with new hearts.
The heart of flesh passage is true, too. But this passage mentions new tongues in the context of laying hands on the sick and they shall recover and other supernatural acts. A few weeks later at Pentecost there was speaking in tongues. Paul includes healing, tongues miracles wtc.
It see.s you are grasping at straws to make the cgurch less miraculous.
Paul contrasts praying with his spirit- tongues in that context- verus praying with his understanding.
1st century assemblies were nothing close to what we have today, yes there was leadership but that leadership was only to organize the assembly and each member played a part in the spreading of word of God but mostly to support one another.
Today's assemblies have one or two self appointed heads who serve to bring to the rest of the congregation the word of God- a terrible mistake which the devil capitalizes on, hence divisions and doctrines of men quickly spread.
This is what is to be of the new covenant:
Jer 31:
31“The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
32It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to d them, e ”
declares the Lord.
33“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
34No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord.
There's nothing miraculous about today's tongues, just words with no meaning at all.
Nope. He clearly says "..pray with understanding.." therefore condemning the act of praying without understanding.
Praying in the Spirit does not refer to the words one is saying. Rather, it refers to how one is praying. In the three places it is used (Corinthians, Ephesians, and Jude), there is absolutely zero reference to 'languages' in connection with this phrase. “Praying in the Spirit” should be understood as praying in the power of the Spirit, by the leading of the Spirit, and according to His will. In Pentecostal/Charismatic parlance however, the phase has come to be equated with modern “tongues”, i.e. when one “prays in the Spirit”, one is typically engaged in some form of tongues-speech.
Below is an example of "tongues" that I recently transcribed from a YouTube video - it is shown in simple IPA transcription (apologies to those who can't read it - very quickly - the 's' with the inverted chevron is "sh", the 'E' is 'eh', I is 'ih', 'j' is like 'y', 'n' with the 'tail' is 'ng' in "king", the 'open o' is the 'o' of "not" (New England pronunciation - so almost 'aw' in "law"), the accent shows the stress. The : after a sound lengthens it.
/Ribababaší toromó kijɛtɛ’j. Makjandarabá šandorobó kjáta. Satará kandorobó kirɪbáka:. Ribandarabá šandí ko kararibíš. Sitíŋ garabáš šandarabó kondiká. Mánda kašikarandorobó šija:tí. Mararabá ŋarabɔ’:š. Šití koró gəgəšɪ’ndarabakjá. Mándi kísi turukí karabáš:. Diribí šíti karabá torobó kɪ’ndi. Ríbababá šɪ’tɛ ka: šandorobó kɪ’ta. Masíta katórobo šɪ’ti ka:. Šɪ’kandaraba kókɛj. Makjáraba šándorobó kjánta. Šɪtí kiribá šúndurubú kja. Mándaraba katarabá: dokó šɪtí. Murijaté kándarabá šandurú ku. Síti korábabababá ndoró:./
Speaker is male, Black African, and I suspect is familiar with at least one sub-Saharan African language. Pronunciation of glossolalia is very indicative of familiarity with African languages.
Speaker’s ‘r’ is single flap (the 't' in many pronunciations of "water"), vowels are all very pure though at times difficult to tell between i/ɪ and o/u/Ɔ. Though accent marks show the stress, at times it seems like the stress was more tone (specifically high) as is prevalent in many African languages.
“Words” and “sentences” are divided above based solely upon the speaker’s utterance with respect to pauses in speech.
This is classic glossolalia - notice the repetition of syllables and the use of two or three main contrasting vowels.
link to the YouTube video where you can hear the speaker.
If there is meaning and language here, I would like to know where it is.
/Ribababaší toromó kijɛtɛ’j. Makjandarabá šandorobó kjáta. Satará kandorobó kirɪbáka:. Ribandarabá šandí ko kararibíš. Sitíŋ garabáš šandarabó kondiká. Mánda kašikarandorobó šija:tí. Mararabá ŋarabɔ’:š. Šití koró gəgəšɪ’ndarabakjá. Mándi kísi turukí karabáš:. Diribí šíti karabá torobó kɪ’ndi. Ríbababá šɪ’tɛ ka: šandorobó kɪ’ta. Masíta katórobo šɪ’ti ka:. Šɪ’kandaraba kókɛj. Makjáraba šándorobó kjánta. Šɪtí kiribá šúndurubú kja. Mándaraba katarabá: dokó šɪtí. Murijaté kándarabá šandurú ku. Síti korábabababá ndoró:./
Speaker is male, Black African, and I suspect is familiar with at least one sub-Saharan African language. Pronunciation of glossolalia is very indicative of familiarity with African languages.
Speaker’s ‘r’ is single flap (the 't' in many pronunciations of "water"), vowels are all very pure though at times difficult to tell between i/ɪ and o/u/Ɔ. Though accent marks show the stress, at times it seems like the stress was more tone (specifically high) as is prevalent in many African languages.
“Words” and “sentences” are divided above based solely upon the speaker’s utterance with respect to pauses in speech.
This is classic glossolalia - notice the repetition of syllables and the use of two or three main contrasting vowels.
If there is meaning and language here, I would like to know where it is.
You are mistaken. He says he will pray with his spirit and pray with his understanding.
I Corinthians 14:15
What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
Yeah, right after saying there are so many languages in the world and none is without meaning.
If all the languages in the world have meaning:
What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also...
Why?
Because there's no language in this world without meaning like the tongues we hear today.
IOW Paul is saying, quit speaking meaningless words, even a trumpet sound has a meaning.
1 Cor 14:9 So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air.
@presidente
How can you speak intelligible words with your tongue?
That's no excuse not to assemble with other believers. There are house churches, brethren churches, and other types of fellowships where believers meet and exhort one another. If we obey scripture on this, we allow for tongues and interpretation and prophesying in the church meeting as well.
That which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. Now, we have what some translations call the 'downpayment' of the Spirit, and we are still waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our bodies. We still live in a time where there are many people who do not know God. The nations still need to be discipled. Believers also need to be taught and discipled. We as Christians still need the gifts of other believers, and those include gifts like prophecy, teaching, and exhortation. You weren't born knowing God, and you hold to many strange ideas that the apostles, no doubt, would have opposed if they had spread in the churches. Those who did not believe in the resurrection that Paul corrected could have held to your theories for all we know.
So do you think Paul was addressing some kind of speaking in tongues that was not a real language?
Paul is making the point that tongues must be interpreted so that others may understand. Without interpretation, speaking in tongues did not edify others. Tongues need to be interpreted in church so that they can edify others. I see this and the verses as an argument leading up to that point. You are taking a verse out of context, it seems to address the idea of an unreal language as if that is what Paul was opposing. But Paul was arguing for interpretation.
I 100% affirm, there's nothing here. Just throw some Ks and Rs and don't forget the Zs with the Os. This is what they say week in week out. I was at one time coerced to say these things and i created a nice one for myself.
I'm speaking from experience, there's simply nothing to it but i could be wrong, if anyone with gift to translate tongues, this is your time.
No there aren't any out here. All the churches will have pastor who has false authority over all congregation. When God said all authority comes from Him, that did not include self appointments.
You do not trust Jesus at all. He said He will loose not a single soul that the Father has put in His hands. So it is God that convicts the heart of a man not man or pastors or preachers. How many times was it prophesied that God has loved as with an everlasting love from before the foundations of the world and has drawn us to Himself with compassion?
And what will we do with all these:
Jer 23:21
I did not send these prophets, yet they have run with their message; I did not speak to them, yet they prophesied.
Jeremiah 14:14
"The prophets are prophesying lies in My name," the LORD replied. "I did not send them or appoint them or speak to them. They are prophesying to you a false vision, a worthless divination, the futility and delusion of their own minds.
Jeremiah 27:14
Do not listen to the words of the prophets who tell you, 'You must not serve the king of Babylon,' for they are prophesying to you a lie.
Jeremiah 27:15
For I have not sent them,' declares the LORD, 'and yet they are prophesying falsely in My name; therefore I will banish you and you will perish--you and the prophets who prophesy to you.'"
Jeremiah 29:8
For this is what the LORD of Hosts, the God of Israel, says: 'Do not be deceived by the prophets and diviners among you, and do not listen to the dreams you elicit from them.
I think you meant the same misspelling not same misunderstanding .Bad habit (Dyslexic?) .Sorry
You left out the part where he says to be zealous for the edification of the church and says for the one who speaks in tongues to pray that he may interpret. Then he makes another argument about prayer. If he prays in tongues, he is edified, but the other is not. He will pray in tongues. He will pray in the understanding. But if you pray in the church you do not edifiy others. Paul spoke in tongues more than them all, but if he were in the church, he would rather speak five words with the understanding than 10,000 words in an unknown tongue. He requires later in the chapter that when they come together 'let all things be done unto edifying.' Paul is not opposed to praying in tongues. He is saying that in the church, all things must be done unto edifying. After saying this, he gives instructions that require tongues to be interpreted, some guidelines for prophets that also require a speaking prophet to hold his peace if another sitting by receives a revelation for ye may all prophesy one by one.
Paul is not opposed to speaking in tongues. He says 'forbid not to speak in tongues.' Speaking in tongues does not edify others without interpretation. In the church, all things are to be done unto edifying. Therefore, if one is speaking in tongues and there be no interpreter, he is to keep silent in the church and to speak to himself and to God.
I definitely meant both. My spelling is atrocious if I'm on my phone. The keys are too small for my fat thumb. But I have seen that 'brining' line so many times, I suspect you may be cutting and pasting some old thing you wrote a long time ago that has been debunked numerous times by posters here.
The "gift of hearing God" as he gives the Chrusch ears to hear what the Spirit is saying to the believers confirms we can believe God as he does give us ears.
No outward sign for believing prophecy.... just a new miraculously a changed heart that God alone can look upon .
The sign or mark against the unbelieving Jew is simply God brining the "gift of hearing" in the tongues of many languages and not the Hebrew tongue. God mocking the no faith Jew for the mocking Him . The law is as a foundation found in Isiah 28 its witness below.
In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that "will they not hear" me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, "not to them that believe", but "to them that believe not": but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.1 Corinthians 14:21-22
How in the world a oral tradition of man turns that mark upside which confirms unbelief and turns some a mark to confirm those who reject prophecy as something positive to seek after . I think it destroys the faith principle.Which says...…….. No signs.... we walk by faith.
Paul is talking about so many things which include interpreting tongues for the benefit of others, but in v9 Paul is urging them to speak intelligible words with their tongue, he is not saying interpret the non intelligible words in your tongues.