Soon it will be Christmas Day!

[ZNP]

There is nothing wrong with having a tree. But if you don't wish to have one, plenty of people celebrate Christmas without a tree. Santa, same thing.

Who are you to say this? To anyone that sees the tree as being idolatrous it is sin, and if this stumbles your brother or sister, then you would also stop it for the sake of your brother or sister. Yes, an idol is nothing. It is not possible during this time to go out to a restaurant or some other place and for there to be these idols up. I don't leave a restaurant because they have a Santa or a tree. But for a church to put these up? For a brother or sister to put these up? Only the Lord can judge, not you and not me. However, you have been told clearly that yes, these are idols and yes, they offend many brothers and sisters. What you do with that knowledge is between you and the Lord.

1 Corinthians 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. 5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. 7 Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.

So you may be at work and they have a Christmas party with a tree and Santa and food. You can go to that party. You work there, you have been sent into the world to preach to the world, and to say you can't eat their food because it is offered to an idol would be similar to Peter not being able to eat with the Gentiles.

1 Corinthians 8:8 But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.

When I was in Taiwan you often went into a restaurant or home with an idol in the corner of the room. It was similar to a Christmas tree, only smaller. They would have their idol with some incense burning and some gifts (food) that was being blessed, just like a Christmas tree, candles and the gifts under the tree.

9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.

But just because I didn't have any problem eating with that idol in the same room doesn't mean I am going to set that idol up in my own home.

10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols; 11 And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ. 13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.

 

[ZNP]

I am over 65, I do not take any medication and never have. 90% of Americans over 65 are on medication. Also, I worked as a full time teacher for less than 15 years before I was forced to retire due to the pandemic. Prior to that I was a full time gospel worker. I was never paid as a full time gospel worker. I didn't have any money or possessions but I also didn't have any debts. And yet, there are many, many people in this country struggling financially and I am not one of them.

I say this because opening your home to idols and demons will have a cost. It can affect your health, it can affect your finances, it can cause harm to your children or to your marriage.

Every time we take the Lord's table we are told to examine ourselves. If you have health issues, or financial issues, or family issues, then examine yourself. Perhaps you have opened the door to allow Satan into your home to attack you.

When we first get saved it is likened to the Passover feast. That feast is the first day of a seven day feast called "the feast of unleavened bread". You are supposed to sweep your house and remove all leaven. That is a reference to anything of the evil one. I threw out Tshirts from rock concerts, I burned my rock and roll albums, etc. This feast is seven days because it signifies the entire church age. Like the saying "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure". Everyone upon receiving the Lord Jesus should go through their home and remove every abominable thing, everything that the Holy Spirit has an issue with.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

My conclusion, and admittedly this is not some comprehensive study done of the US, is that the Christmas play is not an effective evangelism tool. I am not claiming anything more than my personal observation over the last 50 years.

Right, so that kind of evangelism doesn't work in your area that you have personally observed. As I said, it doesn't mean people didn't rededicate their lives or go to another church that didn't inform you. You're not God, you don't know. And you certainly can't speak for plays that take place all over the country. Why anyone would argue against any effort to evangelize is beyond me.

 

[ZNP]

Why anyone would argue against any effort to evangelize is beyond me.

Well first of all I was not arguing against any effort to evangelize, I simply asked to see the evidence that they were truly evangelizing. Just because someone claims that this is an opportunity for the gospel doesn't make it true. Show me the proof. One would think after 20 years there would be some proof.

and Second of all mingling the word of God with the leaven of Christmas, confusing kids into thinking Santa Claus and Christmas trees are part of the Bible, well that is what Jesus warned us about. He warned us to beware the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

Personally I dislike gimmicks and a Christmas play is very often nothing but a gimmick.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Who are you to say this? To anyone that sees the tree as being idolatrous it is sin, and if this stumbles your brother or sister, then you would also stop it for the sake of your brother or sister. Yes, an idol is nothing. It is not possible during this time to go out to a restaurant or some other place and for there to be these idols up. I don't leave a restaurant because they have a Santa or a tree. But for a church to put these up?


For a brother or sister to put these up? Only the Lord can judge, not you and not me. However, you have been told clearly that yes, these are idols and yes, they offend many brothers and sisters. What you do with that knowledge is between you and the Lord.

I would see Santa as secular and wouldn't agree with one in the church. The tree is not an idol. An idol is something you worship. If you don't want to have one don't. But there is nothing wrong with having a tree in church. Nowhere in the Bible does it speak against having a tree.

So you may be at work and they have a Christmas party with a tree and Santa and food. You can go to that party. You work there, you have been sent into the world to preach to the world, and to say you can't eat their food because it is offered to an idol would be similar to Peter not being able to eat with the Gentiles.

You don't have to go to an office party to preach to the world. I went to one office party as a child with my father. It was a large one, they gave gifts out to the kids. They surely had a party. That was the first and last that my father went to. Why? Because they were all drunk. They were flirting with each others spouses and just acting like fools. That was worse than SaBnta or a tree being there.

When I was in Taiwan you often went into a restaurant or home with an idol in the corner of the room. It was similar to a Christmas tree, only smaller. They would have their idol with some incense burning and some gifts (food) that was being blessed, just like a Christmas tree, candles and the gifts under the tree.

Nothing is being blessed under a tree. It's not worshiped, it's not prayed to. It's not an idol.

But just because I didn't have any problem eating with that idol in the same room doesn't mean I am going to set that idol up in my own home.

No one is saying you have to put anything in your house. What I'm saying is other Christians shouldn't be condemned because they do put a tree in their home or church. You do what suits you.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Well first of all I was not arguing against any effort to evangelize, I simply asked to see the evidence that they were truly evangelizing. Just because someone claims that this is an opportunity for the gospel doesn't make it true. Show me the proof.
.

The proof is the Gospel is going forth, that's called evangelism. Our church took a summer and handed out water bottles in the Walmart parking lot. They talked to people. They reached people with the Word. You don't know when that seed will grow. That's up to God. That's not your job or mine. We are to share the Word.

and Second of all mingling the word of God with the leaven of Christmas, confusing kids into thinking Santa Claus and Christmas trees are part of the Bible, well that is what Jesus warned us about. He warned us to beware the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
.

You don't need Santa for Christmas. Already went over that. Nothing wrong with a Christmas tree.

Personally I dislike gimmicks and a Christmas play is very often nothing but a gimmick.

Right, it's not your manner of outreach. But some people are gifted actors and singers and that's what God blessed them with to reach out with the Gospel. I support that effort, even if it's not my way of outreach. One person reached is worth it.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

I am over 65, I do not take any medication and never have. 90% of Americans over 65 are on medication. Also, I worked as a full time teacher for less than 15 years before I was forced to retire due to the pandemic. Prior to that I was a full time gospel worker. I was never paid as a full time gospel worker. I didn't have any money or possessions but I also didn't have any debts. And yet, there are many, many people in this country struggling financially and I am not one of them.

I say this because opening your home to idols and demons will have a cost. It can affect your health, it can affect your finances, it can cause harm to your children or to your marriage.
Every time we take the Lord's table we are told to examine ourselves. If you have health issues, or financial issues, or family issues, then examine yourself. Perhaps you have opened the door to allow Satan into your home to attack you

Right, that's why I don't open my home to demons or idols.

 

[ZNP]

The proof is the Gospel is going forth, that's called evangelism. Our church took a summer and handed out water bottles in the Walmart parking lot. They talked to people. They reached people with the Word. You don't know when that seed will grow. That's up to God. That's not your job or mine. We are to share the Word.



You don't need Santa for Christmas. Already went over that. Nothing wrong with a Christmas tree.




Right, it's not your manner of outreach. But some people are gifted actors and singers and that's what God blessed them with to reach out with the Gospel. I support that effort, even if it's not my way of outreach. One person reached is worth it.

Great, so then why not show us the evidence that this is truly a gospel outreach? From what I can gather every large denomination has been doing a big Christmas event every year for as long as I can remember and yet membership at the denominations is shrinking.

Over the last 50 years, attendance at most large Christian denominations in the U.S. has seen a significant, long-term decline, with mainline Protestants and Catholics experiencing substantial drops.

So you can claim this is a different manner of outreach, but the numbers don't lie and the numbers are saying it is a very ineffective approach.

 

[ZNP]

Right, that's why I don't open my home to demons or idols.

Great, but if 90% of Americans over 65 are taking prescription medication it indicates that 90% of Americans over 65 have some health issues. There are a variety of causes, but one could be that they have opened themselves up to attack from Satan. So I would think 90% would be doing an examination of what is the spiritual cause.

Granted old age is ordained by God.

21% of children aged 18 and younger in the US have taken a prescription drug in the last 30 days.

26% of 12th graders in the US have used illicit drugs.

More than 107,000 Americans died from a drug overdose in 2023.

The three leading causes of death for those 12 to 20 are based on drinking alcohol.

Bottom line, I could go on and on about divorce, broken marriages, depression and all the other ills in society. One simple solution would be to sweep your house clean of all leaven. Maybe that will only deal with 80% of the problem, but that is a very good start.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Great, so then why not show us the evidence that this is truly a gospel outreach?
.

It's a gospel outreach because the Gospel is being shared.

Over the last 50 years, attendance at most large Christian denominations in the U.S. has seen a significant, long-term decline, with mainline Protestants and Catholics experiencing substantial drops.

Covid didn't help. We know what happened for the Catholics to decline. As for the rest people have social media, tv, and like many here, they simply don't go to church. I bet if you took a poll here you'd find a surprising amount of people consider themselves Christians don't attend a church and in fact consider it wrong to attend a church. Never experienced that POV till I came here to CC.

So you can claim this is a different manner of outreach, but the numbers don't lie and the numbers are saying it is a very ineffective approach.

You don't have "numbers" so you don't have that to go by. And the Gospel isn't a numbers game. We used to have posted over our church door on the way out "each one reach one". Not every one will be able to be Billy Graham. One sinner saved is worth the effort. As I mentioned David Livingston before. We plant God looks after the rest.

 

[ZNP]

So I hope everyone notices this, the Protestant and Catholic churches have been having these big Christmas plays for fifty years, claiming they are gospel outreach, and the reality is they are drying up, their attendance is on serious decline. So regardless of how they want to spin it, they don't have any evidence that this is an effective way to preach the gospel. So don't let them get away with justifying the Christmas play as a "gospel outreach". Instead ask for the evidence. Time to apply a DOGE style audit of the church.

Also it is undeniable that the practice of the big Christmas event at church is human tradition. It is not part of the fellowship of the apostles and Jesus warned us that the traditions of men were leaven that we need to be wary of.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Great, but if 90% of Americans over 65 are taking prescription medication it indicates that 90% of Americans over 65 have some health issues. There are a variety of causes, but one could be that they have opened themselves up to attack from Satan. So I would think 90% would be doing an examination of what is the spiritual cause.

Granted old age is ordained by God.

21% of children aged 18 and younger in the US have taken a prescription drug in the last 30 days.

26% of 12th graders in the US have used illicit drugs.

More than 107,000 Americans died from a drug overdose in 2023.

The three leading causes of death for those 12 to 20 are based on drinking alcohol.

Bottom line, I could go on and on about divorce, broken marriages, depression and all the other ills in society. One simple solution would be to sweep your house clean of all leaven. Maybe that will only deal with 80% of the problem, but that is a very good start.

All kinds of reasons people can be sick. A lot of Christians don't see an issue with drinking alcohol. I disagree with it but I wouldn't say a Christian who drinks isn't saved or is going to hell. I simply don't see the point in it, I don't see that it does anyone any good and can in fact make you do some very stupid or dangerous things if you're not very careful. But I don't judge others for doing so. That's between them and God. Same with idols and demons, people need to listen to the Holy Spirit and remove things they feel convicted over. My mother use to love Hallmark Christmas movies. But they became vulgar and then added homosexual story lines. She stopped watching them and found a Christian channel instead. So yes, when we feel convicted we should do something about it.

 

[HeIsHere]

So I hope everyone notices this, the Protestant and Catholic churches have been having these big Christmas plays for fifty years, claiming they are gospel outreach, and the reality is they are drying up, their attendance is on serious decline. So regardless of how they want to spin it, they don't have any evidence that this is an effective way to preach the gospel. So don't let them get away with justifying the Christmas play as a "gospel outreach". Instead ask for the evidence. Time to apply a DOGE style audit of the church.

Also it is undeniable that the practice of the big Christmas event at church is human tradition. It is not part of the fellowship of the apostles and Jesus warned us that the traditions of men were leaven that we need to be wary of.

Christmas is part of the golden quarter, where many companies hoped to go from red to black.
It was is a money maker (commercialism) although perhaps less so over the past ten years.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

So I hope everyone notices this, the Protestant and Catholic churches have been having these big Christmas plays for fifty years, claiming they are gospel outreach, and the reality is they are drying up, their attendance is on serious decline.

Catholic churches are in decline because of molesting children. Protestant have declined because they have dulled the truth of the Word to accept homosexuality and a social gospel. They have not declined because of Christmas plays.

So regardless of how they want to spin it, they don't have any evidence that this is an effective way to preach the gospel. So don't let them get away with justifying the Christmas play as a "gospel outreach". Instead ask for the evidence. Time to apply a DOGE style audit of the church.

David Livingston had one convert and yet is considered the greatest missionary. Gladly, God isn't as narrow minded or dogmatic as you are. You'd make a poor missionary. They labor for years before they see people come to the Lord.

Also it is undeniable that the practice of the big Christmas event at church is human tradition. It is not part of the fellowship of the apostles and Jesus warned us that the traditions of men were leaven that we need to be wary of.

Christmas is celebrating the birth of our Savior. There is nothing in the Bible against it.

 

[ZNP]

Christmas is celebrating the birth of our Savior. There is nothing in the Bible against it.

I am not talking about the story in Luke or Matthew. Neither of those stories can be tied to Christmas trees, yule logs, Santa Claus, the North Pole, Elves or anything else associated with December 25th.

There is nothing in Matthew or Luke that ties the Lord's incarnation to Sol Invictus, Yule or Saturnalia.

There is nothing in the New Testament that would give children a lesson on how to pray by encouraging them to write a letter to Santa Claus.

It is impossible for God to lie and therefore it is impossible to worship a God who does not lie by having a holiday celebration that is centered on lying to children about a jolly man in a red suit at the North pole flying around in a magic sleigh.

Combining these two holidays into one is obviously going to confuse children and anyone not fully up on what the Bible actually teaches. God is not the author of confusion.

Yes, I am glad you brought it up, the same people who brought us the Pedophilia priests and pushed the whole LGBTQ+ agenda started by leaving the Bible to have Christmas celebrations.

 

[aChristian2]

So the point just totally went over your head. It is utter nonsense for me to say that someone wasn't reached, I agree, as it is also utter nonsense for others to claim someone was reached without us hearing their testimonies. I have no evidence that they were not reached and you have not provided any evidence that they were.

In my case we had 100 people each put in an average of 10 hours each (some more some less, but the average was probably 10 hours each), that is 1,000 hours and I saw this for 20 years, so 20,000 hours.

I was involved in a gospel ministry and we kept detailed records, how many people we talked to, how many we baptized, how many became members of the church. We provided evidence of how effective our ministry was. I have never seen any evidence provided on how effective the Christmas play was at evangelizing other than the Pastor asking for all those new ones to stand up.

My conclusion, and admittedly this is not some comprehensive study done of the US, is that the Christmas play is not an effective evangelism tool. I am not claiming anything more than my personal observation over the last 50 years. I spent twenty years with a church that did not have any Christmas play and twenty years with one that did. They both put in 20,000 hours of evangelism. One church doubled and quadrupled in size, the other slowly shrunk over 20 years.

brother again,

your ministries outreach is to be commended, your ministries faith is to be commended. G-D it seems has moved thru your ministry.

that said, a Christmas play is just that, a Christmas play, why does it have to be anything more? yet people are drawn to the Church building thru the play. people that are preparing for the Christmas play maybe dramatically effected. Also the families involved that see their siblings, daughters, parents, friends, or extended family involved, even strangers or the lonely, the broken hearted, the list goes on...

This can led to so much seed planting that we cannot imagine, in G-D'S HANDS. Yet even just a day celebrating JESUS is a day to be glorified. a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step, or may end with these steps. If G-D has called me to a Christmas play, shall I not attend, even leave the field of the streets if this is HIS WILL?

maybe I am missing the point you two are discussing?, why the comparison?, it is G-D that Moves Thru us, I am of the belief no one can come to JESUS unless The Father Draw him as The Bible says.
so whether at a play or at a food give away, or at a secular bar, or during a secular tv movie, for Who Knows such things as When & How G-D may Move.

their are many people on the front lines with JESUS so to speak, yet the people that may seem to be behind the scenes are valuable as well, and perhaps training for the front lines, or just very valuable where they are.

they maybe prayer warriors, in the Bible When JESUS went to the temple as baby I believe there was a women there that served with prayers and fasting in the temple.

when King David went and fought to collect his wives with the 400, and 200 remains behind with the stuff, they were given and equal portion and it became a standard, that they that remained behind with the stuff were given a part of the bounty.

in the parable of the workers in the field, the ones that bared the burden of the heat of the day & the ones that worked one hour were both given an equal portion.


we must remember, an is a good reminder to me, that all the Glory is to G-D in the Highest, for we can do nothing without JESUS, for the branch cannot produce fruit without the Vine!

pardon me, but it sounds like the discussion the disciples were having when they were saying who would be the greatest in the KINGDOM of HEAVEN. ( yet I realize that your saying which produces more fruit, yet I think I could make an argument that it is under the same umbrella) this can seem harsh, yet I myself have been part of these conversation as I am the chief sinner. As I believe and hope that arrogance and pride are being smashed out of me.

love each other, and rejoice if G-D has you on the front lines of Ministry. I have heard it said that many a Christian expected to do great things thru JESUS have fallen because they forgot that it was G-D moving, and that they (we/especially me) are not important.

HIS KINGDOM, HIS PLANS, the Bible does tell us obedience is love, and again brother I commend your obedience

in love & peace
your brother

 

[ZNP]

brother again,

your ministries outreach is to be commended, your ministries faith is to be commended. G-D it seems has moved thru your ministry.

that said, a Christmas play is just that, a Christmas play, why does it have to be anything more? yet people are drawn to the Church building thru the play. people that are preparing for the Christmas play maybe dramatically effected. Also the families involved that see their siblings, daughters, parents, friends, or extended family involved, even strangers or the lonely, the broken hearted, the list goes on...

This can led to so much seed planting that we cannot imagine, in G-D'S HANDS. Yet even just a day celebrating JESUS is a day to be glorified. a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step, or may end with these steps. If G-D has called me to a Christmas play, shall I not attend, even leave the field of the streets if this is HIS WILL?

maybe I am missing the point you two are discussing?, why the comparison?, it is G-D that Moves Thru us, I am of the belief no one can come to JESUS unless The Father Draw him as The Bible says.
so whether at a play or at a food give away, or at a secular bar, or during a secular tv movie, for Who Knows such things as When & How G-D may Move.

their are many people on the front lines with JESUS so to speak, yet the people that may seem to be behind the scenes are valuable as well, and perhaps training for the front lines, or just very valuable where they are.

they maybe prayer warriors, in the Bible When JESUS went to the temple as baby I believe there was a women there that served with prayers and fasting in the temple.

when King David went and fought to collect his wives with the 400, and 200 remains behind with the stuff, they were given and equal portion and it became a standard, that they that remained behind with the stuff were given a part of the bounty.

in the parable of the workers in the field, the ones that bared the burden of the heat of the day & the ones that worked one hour were both given an equal portion.


we must remember, an is a good reminder to me, that all the Glory is to G-D in the Highest, for we can do nothing without JESUS, for the branch cannot produce fruit without the Vine!

pardon me, but it sounds like the discussion the disciples were having when they were saying who would be the greatest in the KINGDOM of HEAVEN. ( yet I realize that your saying which produces more fruit, yet I think I could make an argument that it is under the same umbrella) this can seem harsh, yet I myself have been part of these conversation as I am the chief sinner. As I believe and hope that arrogance and pride are being smashed out of me.

love each other, and rejoice if G-D has you on the front lines of Ministry. I have heard it said that many a Christian expected to do great things thru JESUS have fallen because they forgot that it was G-D moving, and that they (we/especially me) are not important.

HIS KINGDOM, HIS PLANS, the Bible does tell us obedience is love, and again brother I commend your obedience

in love & peace
your brother

Everyone needs to be fully persuaded in their own mind and to do that everyone needs to lay everything they do before the Lord.

Christmas and Easter are the two biggest events on the calendar for many churches. The Christmas plays that I observed involved a 1,000 man hours when you consider every single person involved in the production. So it is not "just a play" it is one of the biggest undertakings of the year for many churches. So it is reasonable to ask "what has the fruit been"? Is this a waterless cloud that Jude talks about?

There is going to be a spectrum, for some it is "just a play". For others it is their big service to the Lord for the year. You don't want to appear before the Lord and say "Lord, Lord, didn't I help produce the Christmas play for the last 20 years?" and have the Lord say "depart from me worker of iniquity, I never knew you". We all have to take all of our service to the Lord and make sure we are being directed by the Lord to do this. I have heard many testimonies of people who the Lord spoke to about starting a ministry, especially years later when there has been so much fruit from the ministry and everyone wants to know. I have never heard a testimony from someone who the Lord spoke to about doing Christmas plays. If there is such a person I'd like to hear their testimony, I would like to know about the fruit from that ministry. Every single one of us should be examining ourselves prior to taking the Lord's table. Reflecting on our service to the Lord on a regular basis and examining the fruit is something that is prescribed in the New Testament.

Now if you do this and you are in the Catholic church you should definitely be asking about the pedophile priests, what led to there being such a huge scandal? What can you do to remove all this evil and make sure it doesn't happen again?

If you are in these protestant churches pushing the LGBTQ+ agenda you also should be examining yourself, reflecting on what brought you to this point. Why do you think you can simply ignore the word of God?

I am tired of hearing the same old "there is nothing wrong with..." My question is this "Is there anything right about ..."

Jude 11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

Everyone knows that the Christmas celebration has gone the way of the world, it is materialistic.

12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

Everyone knows that the Protestant and Catholic churches have been drying up, withering from the roots. The Christmas play and other things they do are waterless clouds without fruit.

13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

I am not talking about the story in Luke or Matthew. Neither of those stories can be tied to Christmas trees, yule logs, Santa Claus, the North Pole, Elves or anything else associated with December 25th.

There is nothing in the New Testament that would give children a lesson on how to pray by encouraging them to write a letter to Santa Claus.

Last time saying it, you don't need Santa to celebrate Christmas. Nothing wrong with a tree or Yule logs.

There is nothing in Matthew or Luke that ties the Lord's incarnation to Sol Invictus, Yule or Saturnalia.

There's nothing that does outside the Bible either, watch the videos.

It is impossible for God to lie and therefore it is impossible to worship a God who does not lie by having a holiday celebration that is centered on lying to children about a jolly man in a red suit at the North pole flying around in a magic sleigh.

It's a fake childs story. I grew up without believing in a Santa and still celebrated Christmas.

Combining these two holidays into one is obviously going to confuse children and anyone not fully up on what the Bible actually teaches. God is not the author of confusion.

So don't combine them and they won't be confused.

Yes, I am glad you brought it up, the same people who brought us the Pedophilia priests and pushed the whole LGBTQ+ agenda started by leaving the Bible to have Christmas celebrations.

That's a statement of opinion not fact, number one. Secondly the Catholic church is basically a cult. They left the truth back when Martin Luther nailed a note to the door. They've gotten further from the truth ever since. Has zero to do with Christmas.

 

[jacko]

watch some videos on Corie Ten Boom, and you will realize your problems are not problems.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Everyone needs to be fully persuaded in their own mind and to do that everyone needs to lay everything they do before the Lord.

Great, then don't condemn other Christians for celebrating the Lords birth.

Christmas and Easter are the two biggest events on the calendar for many churches. The Christmas plays that I observed involved a 1,000 man hours when you consider every single person involved in the production. So it is not "just a play" it is one of the biggest undertakings of the year for many churches. So it is reasonable to ask "what has the fruit been"? Is this a waterless cloud that Jude talks about?

You've already stated this argument. You don't know how many people were saved or rededicated their lives during plays all over the US and the world for that matter. You're right, it's not just a play,it's the Gospel being told in story form. It's an outreach, it's a ministry the same way the choir is, or a Sunday school teacher or nursery worker. One body, different parts.

There is going to be a spectrum, for some it is "just a play". For others it is their big service to the Lord for the year. You don't want to appear before the Lord and say "Lord, Lord, didn't I help produce the Christmas play for the last 20 years?" and have the Lord say "depart from me worker of iniquity, I never knew you".

That's hilarious. "So ah, what are you here for?" " I killed an old lady, stole from people, was an atheist all my life. You?" " Oh I was in the Christmas play and God told me to go to hell". I'll give you this, you'll go a long way to try and make your argument. You're being silly now. And you're making a huge assumption that people who take part in a play never ever share the Gospel in any other way. It's a ridiculous comment.

We all have to take all of our service to the Lord and make sure we are being directed by the Lord to do this. I have heard many testimonies of people who the Lord spoke to about starting a ministry, especially years later when there has been so much fruit from the ministry and everyone wants to know. I have never heard a testimony from someone who the Lord spoke to about doing Christmas plays.
If there is such a person I'd like to hear their testimony, I would like to know about the fruit from that ministry. Every single one of us should be examining ourselves prior to taking the Lord's table. Reflecting on our service to the Lord on a regular basis and examining the fruit is something that is prescribed in the New Testament.

I've heard of people with three nipples but because I haven't seen them or spoken to one they obviously don't exist.

Now if you do this and you are in the Catholic church you should definitely be asking about the pedophile priests, what led to there being such a huge scandal? What can you do to remove all this evil and make sure it doesn't happen again?

You can and should leave the Catholic church and go to where the truth is preached.

If you are in these protestant churches pushing the LGBTQ+ agenda you also should be examining yourself, reflecting on what brought you to this point. Why do you think you can simply ignore the word of God?

Same answer, get out of that church and go to where the truth is being preached. There's a reason these issue have split the church down the middle. It came to my nephews church and he stood against it

I am tired of hearing the same old "there is nothing wrong with..." My question is this "Is there anything right about ..."

Don't take my words out of context. I said there was nothing wrong with having a tree. I said a tree is not an idol.

Everyone knows that the Christmas celebration has gone the way of the world, it is materialistic.

No some CHRISTIANS have gone the way of the world. Christmas is about the birth of our Savior.

Everyone knows that the Protestant and Catholic churches have been drying up, withering from the roots. The Christmas play and other things they do are waterless clouds without fruit.

You re-stating your opinion still doesn't make it fact. You have zero proof of what you're saying.