Soon it will be Christmas Day!

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

The star people put on top of the tree is in the likeness of things in the heaven above. The angel they hang on the tree is in the likeness of things in heaven above. Reindeer are in likeness of things in earth beneath. People may hang other ornaments on the tree that are in the likeness of various creatures, etc.

You're being rather liberal with your application of the text there. We are talking about "having other God's" and "bowing down and serving". If I have a picture of a walleye on my wall, is it a graven image? I have a metal statue in my garden where my two dogs were buried, is that a graven image? My mother has a picture of Jesus standing at a door knocking, is that a graven image? Graveyards are full of "angel" statues are they all graven images?

3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God

At my wife's school everyone is required to wear either red or green on some upcoming day indicating they are on "team Santa" or "team Grinch". This means you are required to serve this holiday. If you claimed to be on team Jesus you would likely get fired, but you can be on team Santa. They are requiring everyone bow down to this idol and serve it. This is one example, but there are many more.

Stand up and protest about it! I would! I doubt you'd lose your job, under Biden yes, but now, I doubt it.

The idea that anyone who doesn't celebrate Santa is a "grinch" which by definition is a mean spirited person who spoils the enjoyment of others. Again, slandering anyone who doesn't participate in the idolatry of this pagan worship.

That wasn't the story and it is just a story. The story was about giving. And Christmas isn't pagan.

In idolatry you place our gifts on the altar to be blessed, this is why you put your gifts under the tree, it is the altar in this pagan worship.

So the long johns I bought hubby to keep him warm this winter is part of pagan worship. Got it.

An altar is a table or platform for the presentation of religious offerings, for sacrifices,or offerings to a deity.

Not even close. My living room floor is not an altar.

Who exactly is Santa? Besides being an anagram for Satan,

Evangelist- Evil's Agent
Christian - Rich at sin
Christian - Tiny Irish cat
Mother-in-law - Woman Hitler
Dog -> god

I think I made my point.

and besides wearing a red suit, and sneaking into people's homes like a thief in the night, and exchanging your divine inheritance for junk from the mall

Divine inheritance?! What in the world are you talking about? You're making it seem real!! It's a fictitious story for children.

, he is also the head elf. Elves by definition are supernatural creatures with magical powers. Therefore, by definition they are creatures from the Occult.
In this holiday tradition you lie to your children and will continue the lie until they realize they have been lied to by the people they trust. Since religion intertwines Christmas with the story in the Bible children are taught that the Bible lies because they assume the stories about Santa are also in the Bible. Anyone who has preached the gospel to many people has learned this. Many people equate the stories in the Bible with the story about Santa Claus.

You also teach your children to be materialistic. The letter to Santa is their first lesson on prayer and they are taught to pray for things. To be materialistic is to be idolatrous.

Ok, so neither exist so you can calm down and take a breath. You don't have to feed kids the Santa and elves story to celebrate Christmas. I was told where gifts come from and I knew what my parents could afford. I grew up when Cabbage Patch kids were the rave. My sister and I knew our parents couldn't afford them, and we wouldn't ask for them. And we did not care that we didn't get them. Same as churches who came up with an alternative for Halloween for kids, trunk or treat. You don't have to follow the fake Christmas narrative. As kids we knew Christmas was about Jesus birth and why we were celebrating.

 

[ZNP]

Another interesting article about the date of Jesus birth.



https://baltimoretimes-online.com/n...orn-in-december-christmas-is-correctly-dated/

When was Jesus born?

We don't know, we can make an educated guess, but the New Testament is very clear that we have only been given one day to keep and that is the Lord's table.

But here is one educated guess that works for both Jesus and John the Baptist (we know that these two are born six months apart).

Jesus' Birth

1. Conception at Hanukah — this celebrates the rededication of the temple. Man fell, sin entered in and our temple was defiled. As a result when Jesus comes and we get born again it is the “rededication of the temple”. Therefore Hanukah fits as a shadow of Jesus becoming incarnated in man.

2. 9 months later is Feast of trumpets. The story of the angels appearing to the shepherds in the field is very much like the feast of trumpets announcing the coming of the king.

3. 8 days later you circumcise the baby, that means Jesus blood was shed in the temple on the day of atonement.

That sounds reasonable to me.

4. Mary after conception goes to visit Elizabeth. If the conception was during Hanukah she would be visiting during the winter, that also makes sense as a logical time for a holiday since this is an agricultural community.

5. The Baby lept in Elizabeth’s womb when he heard the voice of Mary. That means he was at least in the seventh month because that is when he could hear. We know that John the Baptist is six months older than Jesus, so to be born six months before feast of trumpets puts you right at Passover.

The Feasts of the Lord beginning with Passover depict the birth of believers who are born again:

1. We believe and are born again as a result of the redeeming sacrifice. If a baby is conceived on Passover it takes one week for the fertilized egg to be implanted in the womb, that is the feast of unleavened bread. Three months later the baby will begin to be in the image of the the father (humans). Prior to that they can look like other creatures. That is the Feast of Shavuot when God gave us the law. After 5 months it is called the awakening, that is when babies will begin to kick. That is the feast of Pentecost (Christianity is completely wrong about when Pentecost is, you can easily prove this from the Bible). Then after seven months Babies can start to hear, that is the Feast of Trumpets. Ten days later the baby will have its own blood supply separate from the Mother, that is the Day of Atonement. Then the birth, signifying the rapture would be during the winter, after the summer and the harvest is past. That is also Biblical.

For us, our birth has to begin at the cross of Christ since we must be redeemed from sin. That is not true of Jesus. For Him his birth would begin by rededicating man as the temple of God.

Since the Bible is so precise in aligning the feasts with the birth of a child it makes sense that the birth of Jesus also aligns with the feasts and we know that His birth is six months off from John the Baptists.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

A valiant effort, but alas you are beating a drum in a vacuum. ZNP will not be dissuaded from hollering, and this is one of his favorites to holler about. No way are you going to ruin his fun with mere facts and logic.

Wow, he's as bad as the JWs on this subject!! I do remember him screaming at me about the tree here one Christmas. But as I said, there's no better time to witness to people than at Christmas. In my travels I've been to a whole lot of churches and seen my share of nativity plays. A lot of kids go to Sunday school, get a part in the play and parents come to see them. A perfect time to share the Greatest Story Ever Told, in song and using the Word. I would say a lot more unsaved people would come for a Christmas play compared to a passion play. But if you're a preacher worth your salt you can bring the message around to it.

 

[ZNP]

You're being rather liberal with your application of the text there. We are talking about "having other God's" and "bowing down and serving". If I have a picture of a walleye on my wall, is it a graven image? I have a metal statue in my garden where my two dogs were buried, is that a graven image? My mother has a picture of Jesus standing at a door knocking, is that a graven image? Graveyards are full of "angel" statues are they all graven images?

3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God




Stand up and protest about it! I would! I doubt you'd lose your job, under Biden yes, but now, I doubt it.




That wasn't the story and it is just a story. The story was about giving. And Christmas isn't pagan.




So the long johns I bought hubby to keep him warm this winter is part of pagan worship. Got it.

An altar is a table or platform for the presentation of religious offerings, for sacrifices,or offerings to a deity.

Not even close. My living room floor is not an altar.




Evangelist- Evil's Agent
Christian - Rich at sin
Christian - Tiny Irish cat
Mother-in-law - Woman Hitler
Dog -> god

I think I made my point.




Divine inheritance?! What in the world are you talking about? You're making it seem real!! It's a fictitious story for children.



Ok, so neither exist so you can calm down and take a breath. You don't have to feed kids the Santa and elves story to celebrate Christmas. I was told where gifts come from and I knew what my parents could afford. I grew up when Cabbage Patch kids were the rave. My sister and I knew our parents couldn't afford them, and we wouldn't ask for them. And we did not care that we didn't get them. Same as churches who came up with an alternative for Halloween for kids, trunk or treat. You don't have to follow the fake Christmas narrative. As kids we knew Christmas was about Jesus birth and why we were celebrating.

What are you defending? Just show me from the word of God?

 

[ZNP]

Wow, he's as bad as the JWs on this subject!! I do remember him screaming at me about the tree here one Christmas. But as I said, there's no better time to witness to people than at Christmas. In my travels I've been to a whole lot of churches and seen my share of nativity plays. A lot of kids go to Sunday school, get a part in the play and parents come to see them. A perfect time to share the Greatest Story Ever Told, in song and using the Word. I would say a lot more unsaved people would come for a Christmas play compared to a passion play. But if you're a preacher worth your salt you can bring the message around to it.

Yes, I heard that a Christmas play is a great opportunity to witness. I met with a church that did this. They would have 100 people involved in the play when you include the choir, the musicians, and everyone else helping make this work. They would have rehearsals for about two months prior to the event. Before the play they would have one dress rehearsal which would take about three or four hours.

I met with that church for 20 years and never heard of one person who said that they came into the church through the play. On the other hand, I went out this past Friday and talked to people at a food give away for one hour. I handed out over 100 Bibles and prayed for one lady with cancer.

If a Christmas play is such a great opportunity for the gospel then someone do a return on investment analysis. Because the way I see it those 100 people could have been far more fruitful if they had spent the same number of hours evangelizing.

I spent years being open to the idea that these plays could be a tool. The plays our church put on were about the best I have ever seen anywhere. But no fruit.

 

[ZNP]

So just to make sure these questions don't get lost @ThereRoseaLamb let me reiterate.

1. For anyone who is defending Christmas celebrations including Christmas trees and "harmless" stories about Santa to kids, please, I am interested in your Biblical basis. If you can share from the word of God why you are defending these practices, I would be interested. Because I don't see a Biblical basis for this, I see it as the doctrines of men which Jesus said we needed to beware of. I see it as the leaven of the Pharisees and the Sadducees.

Matthew 16:6 Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees. 7 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, It is because we have taken no bread. 8 Which when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, O ye of little faith, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread? 9 Do ye not yet understand, neither remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets ye took up? 10 Neither the seven loaves of the four thousand, and how many baskets ye took up? 11 How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees? 12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

and

2. Share with me the fruit from these Christmas plays. I would like to hear anyone's testimony on how coming to church and watching a Christmas play led you to receive Jesus Christ as your savior.

 

[tourist]

I have look and looked for decades and have yet to find any mention of observing Christ's birthday or found any disciples doing so. I wonder who came up with this?

Halmark Cards and Walmart.

 

[tourist]

Partaking of this holiday allows Satan to restore old covenants that were broken when you were baptized.

Santa is an anagram of Satan.

 

[tourist]

You're being rather liberal with your application of the text there. We are talking about "having other God's" and "bowing down and serving". If I have a picture of a walleye on my wall, is it a graven image? I have a metal statue in my garden where my two dogs were buried, is that a graven image? My mother has a picture of Jesus standing at a door knocking, is that a graven image? Graveyards are full of "angel" statues are they all graven images?

Back in the say I had a plastic Jesus.

"I don't care if it rains or freezes,
'long as I have my plastic Jesus,
Sitting on the dashboard of my car."

Comes in color pink and pleasant,
Glows in the dark 'cause it's iridescent,
Take it when you travel far".

 

[tourist]

Ok, so neither exist so you can calm down and take a breath. You don't have to feed kids the Santa and elves story to celebrate Christmas. I was told where gifts come from and I knew what my parents could afford.

Years ago, my young daughter who was probably 4 or 5 years old at the time, asked me if Santa Claus was real. I asked her if she believed that the Easter Bunny was real. She said "no". Smart little tyke.

 

[tourist]

When was Jesus born?

A long time ago.

 

[aChristian2]

I reply in love brother

I can feel your passion, sometimes passion can led to being dogmatic, I have the t-shirt,, haha, not making any judgements of you,, I believe I have read most of what you posted on this thread.

1st) I would say I love that your faith, in works, when you say you were at a food give away and handing out Bibles and ready to pray for people. inspiring brother, truly

I might ask you when you say is there any Bible evidence for celebrating Christmas, (fyi I do not partake in a tree based on Jeremiah 10, I believe as you quoted). I might ask does the Bible say for us to celebrate Good Friday & resurrection Sunday? it may I really do not know, yet...

on this occasion the world teaches kids about an easter bunny, yet the faithful do not let such things get us distracted from celebrating this important weekend.

on Christmas which has the Name Christ right in it, is most beautiful as the faithful remember that G-D gave Good Will towards men and peace on earth, in the gift of HIS Very Son. ahh so very powerful and beautiful.

now Santa is an attack on this occasion, yet when I was lost I remembered more about Santa than JESUS to my shame, yet hopefully as Christians grow this will evaporate. so to speak... ( we must expect attacks by the enemy to distract on this important occasion, & the very fact of such attacks should tell us something about the important and Power of such a celebration, for there is no day like Christmas, is there in this fallen world? for I cannot think of any)

when a Christian says Merry Christmas, many of the unbelievers and the offended understand this is about Christ, for in my home town I have heard people advocating for happy holidays over Merry Christmas.

be not afraid to celebrate JESUS and glory to G-D in the Highest as the Angels proclaimed that night, we do not know the night, yet one has been chosen, I look forward to thanking G-D on that day for HIS LOVE & interaction in my life.

in peace brother, how you choose to celebrate is your business, and if your conscious bothers you, ok, yet if mine does not bother me and I am close to JESUS, I do not see a problem with this for the Bible tells me to have a clear conscious before G-D, granted one must spend time with G-D for discernment. G-D will make HIS servants stand or fall.

in love brother, and I would say compromise is death, and I do love your passion.

I hope you will accept my Merry Christmas to you my brother in Christ

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

What are you defending? Just show me from the word of God?

Ok,
And there were shepherds living out in the fields nearby, keeping watch over their flocks at night. 9 An angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were terrified. 10 But the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid. I bring you good news that will cause great joy for all the people. 11 Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord. 12 This will be a sign to you: You will find a baby wrapped in cloths and lying in a manger.”

13 Suddenly a great company of the heavenly host appeared with the angel, praising God and saying,

14 “Glory to God in the highest heaven,
and on earth peace to those on whom his favor rests.”
15 When the angels had left them and gone into heaven, the shepherds said to one another, “Let’s go to Bethlehem and see this thing that has happened, which the Lord has told us about.”

16 So they hurried off and found Mary and Joseph, and the baby, who was lying in the manger.

 

[aChristian2]

So just to make sure these questions don't get lost @ThereRoseaLamb let me reiterate.

1. For anyone who is defending Christmas celebrations including Christmas trees and "harmless" stories about Santa to kids, please, I am interested in your Biblical basis. If you can share from the word of God why you are defending these practices, I would be interested. Because I don't see a Biblical basis for this, I see it as the doctrines of men which Jesus said we needed to beware of. I see it as the leaven of the Pharisees and the Sadducees.

Matthew 16:6 Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees. 7 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, It is because we have taken no bread. 8 Which when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, O ye of little faith, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread? 9 Do ye not yet understand, neither remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets ye took up? 10 Neither the seven loaves of the four thousand, and how many baskets ye took up? 11 How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees? 12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

and

2. Share with me the fruit from these Christmas plays. I would like to hear anyone's testimony on how coming to church and watching a Christmas play led you to receive Jesus Christ as your savior.

I heard a very old story once, I will share with you and any interested

I heard a man travelled to Japan long ago, and he was in a gift shop and saw a cross with Santa nailed to it. (I gather)

his take was that our message at Christmas time was very confusing to a travelling foreigner. I would imagine this would upset most Christians and help make your point.

I agree that Santa is an attack by the enemy to distract at Christmas, yet I might say this travelling foreigner did get a message of the cross as well.

I find this interesting

 

[ZNP]

Ok,
And there were shepherds living out in the fields nearby, keeping watch over their flocks at night. 9 An angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were terrified. 10 But the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid. I bring you good news that will cause great joy for all the people. 11 Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord. 12 This will be a sign to you: You will find a baby wrapped in cloths and lying in a manger.”

13 Suddenly a great company of the heavenly host appeared with the angel, praising God and saying,

14 “Glory to God in the highest heaven,
and on earth peace to those on whom his favor rests.”
15 When the angels had left them and gone into heaven, the shepherds said to one another, “Let’s go to Bethlehem and see this thing that has happened, which the Lord has told us about.”

16 So they hurried off and found Mary and Joseph, and the baby, who was lying in the manger.

OK, I have no issue with any of that. I have an issue with the Christmas tree, and with Santa, and all the "christmas shows" that kids see on TV. My issue is not with Pagans or their celebrations, my issue is with "Christian" denominations allowing these things to be mingled with the word of God like leaven mingled with flour.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Yes, I heard that a Christmas play is a great opportunity to witness. I met with a church that did this. They would have 100 people involved in the play when you include the choir, the musicians, and everyone else helping make this work. They would have rehearsals for about two months prior to the event. Before the play they would have one dress rehearsal which would take about three or four hours.

I met with that church for 20 years and never heard of one person who said that they came into the church through the play.

You don't know, they may have gone to another church. The Bible says the His Word will not return void. These people reached out in ministry, God will do the rest. Just because He didn't inform you doesn't mean no one came to the Lord, or rededicated their lives. And with all the plays that happen during this season, its rather silly to argue against it. We plant then He does the rest.

On the other hand, I went out this past Friday and talked to people at a food give away for one hour. I handed out over 100 Bibles and prayed for one lady with cancer.

If a Christmas play is such a great opportunity for the gospel then someone do a return on investment analysis. Because the way I see it those 100 people could have been far more fruitful if they had spent the same number of hours evangelizing.

Fantastic! That doesn't lessen the sincerity of those that put the play together. I traveled for over 20 yrs all over two countries. Some nights people came forward or raised a hand other nights it seemed like no one came. You nor I won't know how many lives were touched till we reach heaven. But your way of outreach, their way of outreach, my way of outreach, all comes from the heart and I don't believe anything or any opportunity is wasted when we share the Word. You evangelize your way and God will use you and let others do the same. Surely you know the story of David Livingstone.

I spent years being open to the idea that these plays could be a tool. The plays our church put on were about the best I have ever seen anywhere. But no fruit.

Well that's a pity but I don't think you can know that this side of eternity. But my father put on a passion play in our church years ago. It's wasn't a big church, a couple hundred people. This was when I was too young to take part in it. But I remember it well. They did a great job at the props, took the time to learn their lines, worked hard. It was mainly teenagers. They put on the play and it went so well that they traveled to several other churches. After they were done the parents of twins that were in the play came to my father. They said that their boys were causing problems at home, starting to take drugs and get in trouble and they didn't know what to do. But in doing the play both the boys had given their lives to the Lord. Years later before we moved away, both of them were grown men, married to beautiful Christian women and solid in the church taking part wherever they could. God can use anyone and any situation to lead someone to the Lord.

 

[ZNP]

You don't know, they may have gone to another church. The Bible says the His Word will not return void. These people reached out in ministry, God will do the rest. Just because He didn't inform you doesn't mean no one came to the Lord, or rededicated their lives. And with all the plays that happen during this season, its rather silly to argue against it. We plant then He does the rest.




Fantastic! That doesn't lessen the sincerity of those that put the play together. I traveled for over 20 yrs all over two countries. Some nights people came forward or raised a hand other nights it seemed like no one came. You nor I won't know how many lives were touched till we reach heaven. But your way of outreach, their way of outreach, my way of outreach, all comes from the heart and I don't believe anything or any opportunity is wasted when we share the Word. You evangelize your way and God will use you and let others do the same. Surely you know the story of David Livingstone.




Well that's a pity but I don't think you can know that this side of eternity. But my father put on a passion play in our church years ago. It's wasn't a big church, a couple hundred people. This was when I was too young to take part in it. But I remember it well. They did a great job at the props, took the time to learn their lines, worked hard. It was mainly teenagers. They put on the play and it went so well that they traveled to several other churches. After they were done the parents of twins that were in the play came to my father. They said that their boys were causing problems at home, starting to take drugs and get in trouble and they didn't know what to do. But in doing the play both the boys had given their lives to the Lord. Years later before we moved away, both of them were grown men, married to beautiful Christian women and solid in the church taking part wherever they could. God can use anyone and any situation to lead someone to the Lord.

No I can't know. Which is why I would like to hear testimonies. I have heard many testimonies of how people have gotten saved, it might even be 100, but probably less. Never once did I hear a testimony about being invited to a Christmas play leading someone to get saved. So I would like to hear if anyone has such a testimony.

However, if I don't know neither do all these ones saying that the Christmas play is some great evangelistic tool. They need to either give us the evidence or stop spreading falsehoods.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

No I can't know. Which is why I would like to hear testimonies. I have heard many testimonies of how people have gotten saved, it might even be 100, but probably less. Never once did I hear a testimony about being invited to a Christmas play leading someone to get saved. So I would like to hear if anyone has such a testimony.

However, if I don't know neither do all these ones saying that the Christmas play is some great evangelistic tool. They need to either give us the evidence or stop spreading falsehoods.

So the point just totally went over your head. You're gonna dogmatically stick to that. No one is spreading falsehoods. I just gave you evidence. It's just they were part of the play. It's utter nonsense for you to say in your estimation someone wasn't reached, you're not God, you don't know and it's impossible to know. I have worked for the Gideons who place the Bible everywhere possible. They had no idea who would get saved from their outreach. Maybe instead of sitting back and criticizing you could take part and invite the people you're talking to to the play.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

OK, I have no issue with any of that. I have an issue with the Christmas tree, and with Santa, and all the "christmas shows" that kids see on TV. My issue is not with Pagans or their celebrations, my issue is with "Christian" denominations allowing these things to be mingled with the word of God like leaven mingled with flour.

There is nothing wrong with having a tree. But if you don't wish to have one, plenty of people celebrate Christmas without a tree. Santa, same thing.

 

[ZNP]

So the point just totally went over your head. You're gonna dogmatically stick to that. No one is spreading falsehoods. I just gave you evidence. It's just they were part of the play. It's utter nonsense for you to say in your estimation someone wasn't reached, you're not God, you don't know and it's impossible to know. I have worked for the Gideons who place the Bible everywhere possible. They had no idea who would get saved from their outreach. Maybe instead of sitting back and criticizing you could take part and invite the people you're talking to to the play.

So the point just totally went over your head. It is utter nonsense for me to say that someone wasn't reached, I agree, as it is also utter nonsense for others to claim someone was reached without us hearing their testimonies. I have no evidence that they were not reached and you have not provided any evidence that they were.

In my case we had 100 people each put in an average of 10 hours each (some more some less, but the average was probably 10 hours each), that is 1,000 hours and I saw this for 20 years, so 20,000 hours.

I was involved in a gospel ministry and we kept detailed records, how many people we talked to, how many we baptized, how many became members of the church. We provided evidence of how effective our ministry was. I have never seen any evidence provided on how effective the Christmas play was at evangelizing other than the Pastor asking for all those new ones to stand up.

My conclusion, and admittedly this is not some comprehensive study done of the US, is that the Christmas play is not an effective evangelism tool. I am not claiming anything more than my personal observation over the last 50 years. I spent twenty years with a church that did not have any Christmas play and twenty years with one that did. They both put in 20,000 hours of evangelism. One church doubled and quadrupled in size, the other slowly shrunk over 20 years.