Some things about the law that need explaining.

[eternally-gratefull]

In the first place, Scripture never stated they were ever saved.

You should follow your own advice in your last paragraph too.

It does not have to

the fact God did not destroy them proved they were saved.

the Bible never said david was saved either, or abraham any of the other OT saints

your making things up to fit your belief

 

[Guojing]

It does not have to

the fact God did not destroy them proved they were saved.

the Bible never said david was saved either, or abraham any of the other OT saints

your making things up to fit your belief

David, as part of the nation Israel, will receive forgiveness of sins corporately when Jesus returns for the nation in his 2nd coming. (Acts 3:19-21, 1 Peter 4:17-18, Romans 11),

Romans 11 is the clearest there.

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Note that vs 27 had Paul making the same point in Hebrews 8:8, that the covenant is with Israel, and not us in the Body of Christ

As for Nineveh, if you want to make an argument from silence, that is up to you. Again you should follow your own advice in the last paragraph.

 

[Yahshua]

The way you phrase your 3 options, I see that you have the doctrine that gentiles have become Israel. That is why you like to see the promises to the nation Israel being promises to us too.

That is understandable, the words after Hebrews 8:8 until the end of the chapter, are very comforting and do sound like something that we would like to have been promised to us too.

Okie dokie...clearly you rather tell folks what they're saying instead of acknowledging what they've clearly said. Seems you're both protagonist AND antagonist of your story lol. There can be no beneficial conversation if you're not even trying to understand anyone

 

[Guojing]

Okie dokie...clearly you rather tell folks what they're saying instead of acknowledging what they've clearly said. Seems you're both protagonist AND antagonist of your story lol. There can be no beneficial conversation if you're not even trying to understand anyone

You chose option 2 correct? Did I understand you wrongly?

I acknowledged your choice and I try to understand why you chose that. Did that offend you in any way?

 

[Yahshua]

You chose option 2 correct? Did I understand you wrongly?

I acknowledged your choice and I try to understand why you chose that. Did that offend you in any way?

Well from what I gather, you've told me that because the promises of Heb 8:8 sound good I've chosen a doctrine that gentiles are part of Israel. I don't recall posting that.

And, how can you be sure I'm actually a gentile making a case that gentiles are part of Israel too?

Meanwhile, what I've said is there's no evidence in the NT of any covenant promises being made to gentiles.

 

[Guojing]

Well from what I gather, you've told me that because the promises of Heb 8:8 sound good I've chosen a doctrine that gentiles are part of Israel. I don't recall posting that.

And, how can you be sure I'm actually a gentile making a case that gentiles are part of Israel too?

Meanwhile, what I've said is there's no evidence in the NT of any covenant promises being made to gentiles.

I didn't say you stated that, I am just saying Hebrews 8:8-12 is very comforting scripture, so I understand why there will be people who would like to think its for them.

If you don't want to consider yourself as being a part of "people", I am fine too.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

David, as part of the nation Israel, will receive forgiveness of sins corporately when Jesus returns for the nation in his 2nd coming. (Acts 3:19-21, 1 Peter 4:17-18, Romans 11),

Romans 11 is the clearest there.

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Note that vs 27 had Paul making the same point in Hebrews 8:8, that the covenant is with Israel, and not us in the Body of Christ

As for Nineveh, if you want to make an argument from silence, that is up to you. Again you should follow your own advice in the last paragraph.

Whatever, (I did used to believe this notion of them not being ressurected with the church, I no longer buy into that theory, which is untrue)

I leave you to believe what you want,

good day sir

 

[Guojing]

Whatever, (I did used to believe this notion of them not being ressurected with the church, I no longer buy into that theory, which is untrue)

I leave you to believe what you want,

good day sir

They will be resurrected as in Daniel 12.

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

But for us in the Body of Christ, we will be raptured into the heavens before the Tribulation begin.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

They will be resurrected as in Daniel 12.

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

But for us in the Body of Christ, we will be raptured into the heavens before the Tribulation begin.

Nope

i will not be ressurected before Daniel, king David, Moses, Noah and all the great people of the OT

i am not special

 

[Guojing]

Nope

i will not be ressurected before Daniel, king David, Moses, Noah and all the great people of the OT

i am not special

Its not about who is special, the Body of Christ has a different destiny from Israel.

Ours is in the heavens (Ephesians 1:3), theirs is on the Earth (Zechariah 8).

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Its not about who is special, the Body of Christ has a different destiny from Israel.

Ours is in the heavens (Ephesians 1:3), theirs is on the Earth (Zechariah 8).

Like I said I will allow you to continue to believe whatever

i can’t believe as you do

 

[Blik]

Romans 11 is full of references that they are separate, here are some.

Romans 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

Romans 11:
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

How would you interpret them, if you think they are not separated?

The determining question is who is God? Is God the God of Israel only, a God who treats them as a different people than others, or did God create humans and is the same God for gentiles and Jews? Also, what is grace? Is there the same grace for all at all times, or does that Lord have different grace at different times for different people? In other words, is the characteristic of grace an eternal characteristic or can it be divided by race and time?

I think the answer is that we have one true God, an eternal God who is the same always for all people.

 

[Guojing]

The determining question is who is God? Is God the God of Israel only, a God who treats them as a different people than others, or did God create humans and is the same God for gentiles and Jews? Also, what is grace? Is there the same grace for all at all times, or does that Lord have different grace at different times for different people? In other words, is the characteristic of grace an eternal characteristic or can it be divided by race and time?

I think the answer is that we have one true God, an eternal God who is the same always for all people.

That is what you like to think about God, since you are born in this age.

It was very different for us gentiles in time past, as Ephesians 2:11-12 stated clearly.

 

[Blik]

That is what you like to think about God, since you are born in this age.

It was very different for us gentiles in time past, as Ephesians 2:11-12 stated clearly.

Ephessians 2: 11 Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)— 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.

This is speaking of the time before Christ when every gentile identified himself by an idol of the nation he was in. I am circumcised spiritually, we are born of the spirit and given the Holy Spirit. That was 2,000 plus years ago, get up to date, man.

 

[Guojing]

Ephessians 2: 11 Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)— 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.

This is speaking of the time before Christ when every gentile identified himself by an idol of the nation he was in. I am circumcised spiritually, we are born of the spirit and given the Holy Spirit. That was 2,000 plus years ago, get up to date, man.

So your point about God "who is the same always for all people" is incorrect.

That was the point I was trying to make clear.

 

[Blik]

So your point about God "who is the same always for all people" is incorrect.

That was the point I was trying to make clear.

Malachi 3:6 “For I the Lord do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed.

James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change.

Revelation 22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”

 

[Guojing]

Malachi 3:6 “For I the Lord do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed.

James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change.

Revelation 22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”

Those verses are quoted out of context for this case.

You are contradicting yourself when you earlier stated "That was 2,000 plus years ago, get up to date, man."

 

[Pilgrim]

Was the law only given to Israel or did the Lord want the gentiles to listen and accept Him? Did Jesus change the law when He came? Can a Jew ask for forgiveness, as he does every day, when he hasn’t recognized Christ? Does the grace he believes in allow him to be forgiven under the symbolic Christ?
Did the new covenant cancel any guidance the Lord gives us through telling of His law?

 

[TMS]

Was the law only given to Israel or did the Lord want the gentiles to listen and accept Him? It was given to the Jews but the message was designed for all, God wanted all to come to an understanding of His love, the nation of Israel was to be a light in a dark world. If a gentile wanted to become a jew they could but only by accepting the covenant conditions.
Did Jesus change the law when He came? Mat_5:17 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." When He fulfilled the ceremonial laws we are told that they are no longer needed. By continuing to sacrifice lambs and partake in the ceremonies that Jesus fulfilled you are denying that Jesus is the lamb of God, denying that Jesus has accomplished that part of the service. Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Can a Jew ask for forgiveness, as he does every day, when he hasn’t recognized Christ? I'm not going to judge, but i will say that if a Jew rejects Christ and thinks that his works will save him he is not any different then a gentile rejecting Christ.
Mat 23:19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?
Mat 23:20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.
Does the grace he believes in allow him to be forgiven under the symbolic Christ?
Heb 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
Heb 9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
Heb 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
The blood of Jesus is the only way to be forgiven. Before Jesus came they had faith in the coming saviour and now we have faith in the saviour that has come. God will wink at ignorance, and only God knows if it is ignorance or rebellion.
Did the new covenant cancel any guidance the Lord gives us through telling of His law? There is a lot of confusion about the law, laws.
the old testament has so many valuable lessons we could never exhaust them all, the law (ten commandments of love) are part of the new covenant, and the ceremonial laws are helpful for us to understand what Jesus came to do and is doing today. Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
Psa 119:34 Give me understanding, and I shall keep thy law; yea, I shall observe it with my whole heart.
Rom_2:26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?

 

[Blik]

Those verses are quoted out of context for this case.

You are contradicting yourself when you earlier stated "That was 2,000 plus years ago, get up to date, man."

I don't think this "context" you are speaking of makes anything the Lord tells us untrue. God is eternal, and that has no "context.

When the Lord gave the first covenant to us, that covenant was truth of the Lord. The new covenant that improved that truth, by giving the law in our hearts rather than in stone and rules did not change that truth, and listening to the new covenant does not change the truths of the Lord. I did not contradict myself.