Secret Rapture
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There are no modifications. It makes perfect sense that since scripture states that Jesus rescues believers from the coming wrath and that we are not appointed to suffer the coming wrath, then common sense says that believers cannot go through the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments and that because they constitute God's wrath. There are no scripture modifications in that, in speaking of the resurrection and catching away, Paul says to all believers to comfort one another with that hope and that event is also referred to as "the blessed hope." Suffice to say, if the church was to go through the wrath of God, there would be no blessed hope, nor could any believer be comforted. The reason that you an others don't get this, is because you don't understand the severity and magnitude of God's wrath that is coming. If you did, you wouldn't be claiming that the church is going to be on earth and exposed to it. This is God's wrath that is coming, not man's! And that is what you are not understand.
And what you are not understanding is that "the day of the Lord" is not a day, but covers that entire last seven years. The day of Lord is also referred to as "the hour of trial," but certainly does not last for only an hour. The resurrection and catching away is also apart of the day of the Lord and is in fact what initiates it. In fact, Paul referred to the resurrection and catching away as the day of the Lord twice, once in 1 Thes.5:1-2 and in 2 Thes.2:1-3:
"Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs
Regarding the above, the subject is "the coming of the Lord and our being gathered to him." Then Paul referring back to that subject calls it "the day of the Lord" and "that day." He does the same thing in 1 Thes.5:1-2 after he gives the details regarding the resurrection and catching away, he then says regarding that event, "Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates (of the resurrection and catching away) we do not need to write to you, for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night."
These scriptures are very clear in that, the resurrection and the catching away initiates the day of the Lord, which is then followed by God's wrath, said wrath also being belonging to the day of the Lord.
There is an event to gather the dead and living believers (Church) prior to God's wrath and then there is an event where Christ returns to the earth to end the age and establish his millennial kingdom. The error is with those who have made the resurrection and the catching away as being synonymous with the event of Christ's return to the earth to end that age. In the first event, the Lord descends from heaven and the church, dead and living, is gathered where, according to his promise, the Lord takes the whole group back to the Father's house. While the other event is when Christ returns shortly after the seventh seal has been poured out which completes God's wrath and the church are those who are following him out of heaven riding on white horses and wearing fine linen, bright and clean.
Never read anything by either of those men. I came to the timing of the resurrection and catching based on scripture, not the teachings of men.
That locust army takes place at the 5th trumpet when the Abyss is opened and those demonic beings that resemble locusts and horses prepared for battle, with hair like women's hair, and teeth like lions teeth and tails and stings like scorpions torment the inhabitants of the earth for five months, which will be upon all the inhabitants of the entire earth.
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popeye
Guest
We both believe in the 2nd coming.
3rd coming thingy is a made up cliche bt postribs.
Harvest is 4 parts. (see leviticus)
Firstfruits
Main
corners
gleaners.
Postribs are oblivious to this dimension.
All the harvests are before the end of the GT.
Mat 25 is the main harvest. Those left behind are martyred,then seen in heaven as "an innumerable number"
That marks the time of the gentiles fulfilled.
Enter "jacob's trouble"
The 144k jews are in heaven before the end of the GT.
Almost in the very next sentence jesus is on a cloud harvesting the earth of ripe fruit.
The GT is not over at that point. Ask yourself "what is this harvest DURING THE GT?" (a rapture)
Is Jesus insinuating 3 or 4 comings?
Or do we say the obvious,that he never touches earth in his main and corners harvests?
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Beloved777
Guest
Did you bother to even read my post? Have you not heard of the post tribulation pre wrath rapture and return of Christ? God's wrath on earth begins at the first trumpet judgment, after The Great tribulation which ends in the middle of the seven years. The Great tribulation is extremely intense for believers but only lasts for a very short time for the sake of God's elect (Matthew 24:22). It doesn't last for 3 and a half years. Matthew 24:29-31 debunks a pretrib rapture because after the Great Tribulation, Christ comes in the clouds and sends his angels to gather his elect out of the Great Tribulation and to rescue them from God's wrath. (see Revelation 7:13-14). The Great tribulation is minor compared to what follows! (God's wrath or 7 Trumpet judgments and seven bowl judgments to be unleashed upon the unbelieving world).
Things you missed about that:
1. the locust God uses as a symbol for a certain people and working during the tribulation. It's not about demons with monster-like locust appearance in some fantasy novel; it's about certain men. Joel 1 tells us they are "a nation".
2. teeth like lions, but hair like women, and breastplates of iron are also only symbols for this group of men God calls locusts. When a lion attacks its prey, it will not let go until its prey is dead. The hair of women symbolizes softness, smoothness and is about what comes out of their 'mouth', for later we are told their power is in their mouth. It's about these men being soothsayers, false speakers, working deception through lies.
2. likewise, God uses the scorpion simply as a symbol for 'how' the locusts will attack men for five months. They don't literally have stinging tails like a real scorpion; their working of deception is like how a real scorpion attacks its prey (very graphic involving the nature of a real scorpion).
3. their stinging in the 5th trumpet - 1st woe period is in prep for their main attack on the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe period.
4. they cannot kill anyone without God's seal, nor hurt any green thing on the earth. they can kill those sealed with God's seal.
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popeye
Guest
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
You got it wrong.
It says he comes in power and glory. So that is not the rapture.
It says angels gather,not Jesus,so it is not the rapture.
It says they are gathered FROM HEAVEN,BY ANGELS,so it is not the rapture.
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
See that? such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be?
The wrath is not trib/trib is not wrath concept was not familiar to Jesus.
7 yr GT. That is what it is,with the last segment intensified greatly
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popeye
Guest
Thanks for simply stating what it is w/o the fanfare of mis bracketed hodge podge
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Beloved777
Guest
I see your point about verse 21, but only after the tribulation must come the rapture if you read it in mark 13:27. Furthermore, it says the angels gather HIS ELECT! Who could that possibly be referring to?
I know very well what you wrote, as I have contended against this false teaching for many years.
God's wrath begins at the opening of the first seal sir, as Jesus is the One initiating it. The great tribulation begins in the middle of the seven years and is 3 1/2 years in length, which comes to its end after the 7th bowl has been poured out. Dan.7:25, 9:27 and Rev.13:5-7 all identify the last 3 1/2 years of that seven year period, as the great tribulation, also referred to as "the time Jacob's trouble." The great tribulation is identified as beginning when that abomination is set up in the temple. It is also the same period of time when the beast is given power to make war, conquer and has authority over the great tribulation saints during that last 3 1/2 years, also referred to as "A time, times and a half a time" and as "forty-two months and as "1,260 days." The last half of that 3 1/2 years is when the beast/antichrist will be proclaiming himself to be God or anything that is called God or worshiped.
What you have quoted above takes place at the end of the great tribulation period, which is at the end of the seven years, where Christ ends the age and establishes his millennial kingdom. According to the parable in Mt.13, the angels "first" gather the weeds and then the wheat. These are people who will have made it through the great tribulation period. By the way, God's wrath runs through the entire seven year period via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. It is not until after the 7th bowl has been poured out that Jesus returns and not before. As proof of this, after the 6th bowl has been poured out, Jesus interjects letting the reader know that he has not yet returned. Furthermore, the church is not even exposed to the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, as we are removed before the first seal is opened.
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popeye
Guest
Rev 19 the elect are gathered in heaven and mount millions of horses to accompany Jesus to the earth.
That is what that is referring to as a gathering in mat 24.
Hello again!
Those who the angels will be gathering of Mt.24:30-31, will be the great tribulation saints introduced in Rev.7:9-17 who make it through the end of the seven years alive. These, along with Israel who will have been cared for out in the desert will be those who will repopulate the earth during the millennial period.
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Beloved777
Guest
O.K. I'm not a false teacher. I'm not any teacher! It's just what I've been told about these things. They seemed to make sense to me, but I must bow out on verse 21 and admit I was wrong.
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Beloved777
Guest
If the Great Tribulation begins at the second half of the seven years, then how do you explain Revelation 7:13-14?
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Beloved777
Guest
So Matthew 24:31 is the end of the age, right? But how do you explain Revelation 6:15-16. I mean, that's before the other judgments.
If I offended you, please forgive me. What I meant was, what you are repeating is a false teaching regarding this subject, which I have heard and contended against many, many times and continue to do so. The time of God's wrath is derived from the prophecy made to Daniel by the angel in Dan.9:24-26, which only covers sixty-nine of the seven year periods. The last seven year period is mentioned in Dan.9:27, which God puts off to be fulfilled in the near future and will be initiated when that "ruler" the antichrist makes his covenant for that one seven year period, which will fulfill the seventy sevens. The first seal is the revealing of the antichrist which initiates that last seven years and Jesus is the One opening the seals, which leads into the trumpet judgments, followed by the bowl judgments which complete God's wrath. It is after the 7th bowl judgment that Jesus returns to end the age and establish his millennial kingdom.
The seven year period is divided into two 3 1/2 periods. The beginning of the first 3 1/2 years is when the seven year covenant is made and which comes to its end when the abomination is set up in the middle of the seven. The second 3 1/2 period begins with the setting up of the abomination where that antichrist proclaims himself to be God. At the beginning of the second half of the 3 1/2 years is when Israel flees into the desert as a result of the abomination being set up where she is cared for by God for that last 3 1/2 years (Mt.24:15-22 and Rev.12:6,14).
The seven year period is divided into two 3 1/2 periods. The beginning of the first 3 1/2 years is when the seven year covenant is made and which comes to its end when the abomination is set up in the middle of the seven. The second 3 1/2 period begins with the setting up of the abomination where that antichrist proclaims himself to be God. At the beginning of the second half of the 3 1/2 years is when Israel flees into the desert as a result of the abomination being set up where she is cared for by God for that last 3 1/2 years (Mt.24:15-22 and Rev.12:6,14).
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Beloved777
Guest
Ok I got it. The entire Tribulation is God's wrath, right?
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Mt.24:31 is indeed the end of the age and if I am assuming correcting, by your asking about Rev.6:15-16, you are assuming that the 6th seal is synonymous with Mt.24:29 regarding the event of the sun, moon and stars, correct? I have to confess that these two events had always caused me a problem and that because both events have to do with the sun, moon and the stars. But, upon closer examination in regards to the chronological order of end-time events, I have personally come to the conclusion that Mt.24:29 and Rev.6:12-14, though similar, are two different events. For one thing, in Rev.6:12, the first thing that happens is that there is a great earthquake, which is not mentioned in Mt.24:29. Also, in Rev.6:12 it states that the moon turns "blood red," where in Mt.24:29, it states that the moon does not give its light. Furthermore, Mt.24:29 takes place immediately before the Lord returns to the earth to end the age, which would leave no room for the 7th seal, the seven trumpets or the seven bowl judgments, which follow the 6th seal in Revelation. Regarding when Jesus returns in relation to the 7th bowl judgment, please see the following:
"Then the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings of the East. 13And I saw three unclean spirits that looked like frogs, coming from the mouths of the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet. 14These are demonic spirits that perform signs and go out to all the kings of the earth, to assemble them for battle on the great day of God, the Almighty.
15 “Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who remains awake and clothed, so that he will not go naked and let his shame be exposed.”
16And they assembled the kings in the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.
Notice that after the 6th bowl has been poured out, in verse 15 Jesus announces that he is coming like a thief, which would demonstrate that by the pouring out of the 6th bowl he has not yet returned.