Secret Rapture

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Meeting in the air does not require us to be spirited away to a party in heaven,
but that as He is Coming down, we are gathered to meet Him, and escort Him the rest of His descent back to earth, to conquer the world, and restore it for the Millenium.

There is a false doctrine that says that Christ starts to come down, but then goes back up.... nope. The Word says that He will Return to gather His Saints, and conquer,
and never does Scripture have those two events as separate.

It is the Church that goes up to immediately come back down, not Christ that comes down to immediately go back up.
 
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The rapture and second coming are definitely two separate events. We will be with the Lord when he descends and sets foot on the earth.
 
kentappel said:
I know a lot of people believe that there will be a pre tribulation rapture of the church. For the moment, let's set aside when this event will happen, pre trib., mid trib. or post trib. or even if there is a rapture at all. For this thread please limit it to whether this event is secret or not where people left behind when the church would be taken up don't know what happened.

Can people who believe it is a secret event where no one left behind will know what happened as portrayed in several popular movies and also that has been taught from the pulpit by some pastors please give us some Bible passages that show specifically it is a secret event?


Again, this topic is about it being a secret event where people just, 'poof' disappear and it is not about the timing of such an event. I have been hunting for information that supports the secret rapture but I have yet to find anything on it.
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Secret rapture?? The religious belief is THOUSANDS of years old. Book of Revelation gives the best explanation of the rapture because it is Jesus who gives it to John to write down. The concept of the rapture is simple and it is given in Revelation like the rest of the Book in chronological order. It is man who twist it to his advantage over time and exploited the concept of the rapture. I am not interested in what man has to say about the rapture because he is corrupt and immoral. My acceptance of the rapture is from Jesus to John. Trusted the Bible and not man, especially posters.:)
 
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prove-all said:
my problem is i dont see the word rapture in my english bible.
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I understand.

The Greek Bible was translated into Latin long before it was translated into English.

Greek---->Latin---->English
harpazo-->raptus-->rapture

and so many people believe a pre Christ rapture, i dont like using that word.
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Well, it's "pre-Christ" only in the sense that it happens before his feet touch the ground.
But it happens at his coming.

yes youre right after the trumphet blast, dead will rise,

and then those still here changed, and meet the Lord in the air.

when i read be change and meet in the air, rapture dont click in my brain because the word is not there.

but i know there was not one before Christ calls.

now not sure if there be any time between these two things.

i allways treated this as one event, because it happens in the same trumphet blast.
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Okay. . .I have a different point of reference for the rapture than the trumpet blasts of prophecy.
My reference point is NT teaching of 1Th 4:16-17.

so sorry if i"m being a pain.
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You are no pain, my brother.
 
Sec said:
The rapture was created by Francisco Ribera, in 1590, sort of, and it lay on the shelf, until john Darby wrote about it in 1827, Darby translated the Bible, but it was not picked up and placed in mainline theology until it appeared in Schofield's reference Bible in 1909, which is the Bible I use, but I am not as easily conned as Schofield was.
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That's an interesting revision of history.

The rapture (harpazo); i.e., "the catching up" or "snatching away," was "created" by Paul in 1Th 4:17.

When the Greek Bible was translated into Latin, the Greek harpazo
was translated in the Latin raptus , which
was translated into the English "rapture."

Francisco Ribera did not create the rapture.

Gary Sechler
With knowledge on loan from God
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I don't think so.
 
konroh said:
There seems to be a contrast with "the Lord shall come from heaven and meet us in the clouds" 1 Thess. 4
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He doesn't meet us, we meet him (1Th 4:17).

and "every eye shall see Him, they also which pierced Him," Rev. 1:8.

While the Lord's 2nd coming is definitely not a secret, the text of
1 Thess. 4 doesn't point to universality, only to the inclusion of all Christians.
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It happens at the resurrection, which is universal.

There are not two physical resurrections in certain NT teaching.
 
Elin said:
There is nothing in the Scriptures about a secret rapture.

But we have a not-so-secret rapture.

"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven
with a loud command,
with the voice of the archangel,
with the trumpet call of God," (1Th 4:16)

There is going to be plenty to see and hear.
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I agree and will add the following see him come in the clouds with great Glory and Power...

1. Saved
2. Lost religious
3. Every EYE
4. Every Kindred
5. The Kings of the Earth
6. Rich, poor, bond or free
7. EVERY ONE!

WAS---->past tense
IS------->present tense
IS to come--->future tense

ONE body presence of Christ and our gathering together unto him.....ALL things must jive with ONE PAROUSIA PERIOD!
 
sassylady said:
The rapture and second coming are definitely two separate events. We will be with the Lord when he descends and sets foot on the earth.
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Amen! That is right. The Church (Body of Christ) is called out and caught up in the rapture before the time of Jacob's trouble begins. And at the end of the time of Jacob's trouble we come back with the Lord on white horses and in fine linen (Rev. 19:14).
 
Well, regardless of its timing I have yet to see any real support for how the movies such as left behind portray it that people left behind will wonder what happened that, poof! people will just disappear. For years now that has been an assumption by some people including some in the pulpit as if it is fact.
 
ChosenbyHim said:
Amen! That is right. The Church (Body of Christ) is called out and caught up in the rapture before the time of Jacob's trouble begins. And at the end of the time of Jacob's trouble we come back with the Lord on white horses and in fine linen (Rev. 19:14).
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So you do not believe that we are changed in the "twinkling of an eye"? These events are one in the same.

If the Bridegroom gathers those who are ready before the Trib, then there can be no Tribulation Saints, because it says the door will be locked. No one gains entrance after the Resurrection/rapture. There is only judgement after the Gathering of the Saints, no more chances.

But even the Tribulation Saints are in the 1st Resurrection! After the 1st Resurrection, all others are raised only unto Judgement.
 
sassylady said:
The rapture and second coming are definitely two separate events. We will be with the Lord when he descends and sets foot on the earth.
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I suggest you study Parousia, as there is but ONE body presence of Christ, and ALL THINGS must jive with one coming....! There is no such secret (RAPTURE) taught in the bible and that particular fable and lie have been crammed down the throats of God's people since it's inception by two liars in the early 1800's.....................!

WAS
IS
IS TO COME<------ONE body presence and OUR gathering together unto HIM while HE pours out His wrath upon the world VISIBLY!
 
dcontroversal said:
I suggest you study Parousia, as there is but ONE body presence of Christ, and ALL THINGS must jive with one coming....! There is no such secret (RAPTURE) taught in the bible and that particular fable and lie have been crammed down the throats of God's people since it's inception by two liars in the early 1800's.....................!

WAS
IS
IS TO COME<------ONE body presence and OUR gathering together unto HIM while HE pours out His wrath upon the world VISIBLY!
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Do you lean mid or post?
I lean mid, but accept post as valid and possible (as long as the judgements do not harm Believers, as the plagues did not harm the Israelites in Egypt).
 
Just as the plagues angered Pharoah, and he took it out on the Israelites,
So the judgements will anger the powers of this world, and he/they will take it out on Believers.

This 'type' explains the presence of Believers in the sight of the judgements, while protected, and explains the persecution of the Tribulation Saints.
This also gives further credibility to Moses being one of the two witnesses, or at least a Moses-like figure.
 
The ONLY partially credible evidence for pretrib rapture comes in Revelation 3, where a specific church of a specific city is told that they will be kept from the hour of trial.

From a literal, historical, grammatical hermeneutic, how can a person apply this promise to all the Church?
This was given to a specific group (or Church Age, or geographic region, or denomination) and not to the entire whole.

Only a nonliteral, chronological, personal, hermeneutic comes up with this interpretation.
 
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kentappel said:
Secret Rapture
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Pray tell me, has this event happened yet and if it hasn't happenend yet when it does happen, how will I know if it has happened saying it is "secret"?:confused:

Most confusing all this "secret" stuff!
 
every scripture used to support the rapture is taken out of context, for instance, "meting in the air". every time you place a cell phone call, you "meet" the person you are calling, "in the air" the Holy spirit, is NOT a being, or a person, it is God's internet and cell phone service. Your brain is your cell phone or computer, Your mind is the software, which God updates almost every day. Meeting in the air, as you understand it is the only way a 16th century mind could deal with something they were'nt meant to understand. You are in the 21st century and God has provided us with man made devices that explain what He was talking about. When you are provided with access to the Holy Spirit, you "meet God in the air" that is all that means. There is NO rapture as you think of it.

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Gary Sechler
With knowledge on loan from God
 
Ukorin "The ONLY partially credible evidence for pretrib rapture comes in Revelation 3, where a specific church of a specific city is told that they will be kept from the hour of trial."

Actually that is an addition to John 5: 24. Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me, has eternal life; he does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
Not those who believes in Him, but those who believe God, those who take God’s word to do good, have compassion, distribute Justice, and treat others the way they want to be treated, and live it.
True, of course they still had seven lifetimes of Justification to go through in order to be cleansed of their desire to sin. But if they live that belief, they will never fall victim to sin. They will always live in heaven and never suffer from Judgment

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Gary Sechler
With knowledge on loan from God
 
this "twinkling of an eye" thing. when God reveals Himsef to you, and you realize that you have lived close to Him all your life and never knew Him for who He is, "In the twinkling of an eye," your whole world changes. Nothing you thought was reality is true any more the only thing that is real, is the fact that Jesus' gospel, "the Kingdom of God is at hand," takes over reality, and the rest of the world goes away, until you try to explain it to someone lost in a false theology.

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Gary Sechler
With knowledge on loan from God
 
O.K. "coming in the clouds" is a parable, the same as it is used in Hebrews 12: 1. Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses,

to explain: a cloud is composed of billions of minute drops of water. when you see God face to face, or Jesus, they are one and the same, You will instantly realize that this angel representing the Living God on the earth, is just one of billions that cover the world, just like those billions of water drops that make up every cloud, a perfect parable.

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Gary Sechler
With knowledge on loan from God
 
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