Saved by Water

[FreeGrace2]

Please explain why the scriptures listed are not commandment for baptism. Don't just brush it off.

I don't "brush off" any verse. I explain them. It's up to each believer to have the discernment to understand the verse.

Water baptism is a symbol for our identification with Christ in His death, burial and resurrection. That's what it is. 1 Peter 3:21 says it is a symbol. Go to biblehub.com and see the 28 English translations and just count now many have "symbol" in it.

All dry baptisms are real identifications. Like the Israelites being baptized INTO Moses, and IN the sea. (They didn't get wet. Ask the Egyptian army their experience with immersion!)

All wet baptisms are symbols of being identified with something else.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
You have missed the point again.

Cornelius was saved AND indwelt with the Holy Spirit BEFORE being water baptized.

As I've pointed out numerous times, the bible makes it clear that remission of sin takes place upon obedience to the command to be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

You have a knack of misreading or misunderstanding Scripture.

The spiritual rebirth only becomes a reality after all of the following have taken place; belief in Jesus, repentance, water baptism and receiving the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16)

So, being indwelt with the Spirit (baptized in the Spirit) is meaningless? Wrong.

 

[Omegatime]

Galations:3 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?[a] 4 Have you experienced[b] so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Galations:3 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?[a] 4 Have you experienced[b] so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.

This is the norm for the church age now, regardless of how some verses in Acts are viewed.

Paul wrote Galatians sometime between 49-55 AD. The church age was well established by this time. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is by faith in Christ. Baptism was not mentioned by Paul.

 

[HisKid]

This is the norm for the church age now, regardless of how some verses in Acts are viewed.

Paul wrote Galatians sometime between 49-55 AD. The church age was well established by this time. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is by faith in Christ. Baptism was not mentioned by Paul.

The flesh desires, needs, the pride to be stroked. This is what I see today. The true church is basically hidden. The majority of those who label themselves Christian are just religious zealots who are saving themselves by their good works, or so they think. But do they really believe that? I wonder.

 

[JBTN]

That is false scripture teaching.

Please show where the Bible...KJV please..... says baptism is not required?

“Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/1/1jn.5.1.KJV

If by baptism you mean water baptism, then I don’t see any way for baptism to be required for salvation and this verse to be true. If water baptism is required for salvation, then a person who believes but has not been water baptized would not be saved. That makes 1 John 5:1 false. And just in case we didn’t quite understand, John said it again here:

“These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/1/1jn.5.13.KJV

 

[SophieT]

Please read the scriptures you present, they all point to the fact that one's obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus is for the remission of one's sin. Many have no idea that the forerunners of the Catholic church stopped using the name of the Lord Jesus in water baptism. This distortion has caused many to fail to see that one's sins are forgiven through obedience to the God-given command to be water baptized in his name.

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

well I didn't present them. did you miss the link to the article?

see, you are so used to just spitting out an embedded answer, you do not actually read what others write. you are programmed to deny, reject and twist.

Catholicism does not run me or my biblical beliefs.

It is clear here that baptism doesn’t wash away sin, but is an outward declaration that we want to live with Jesus who is the only one who can forgive our sins. It cannot be intended that the external rite of baptism was sufficient to make you pure, but that it was an ordinance appointed by Jesus as a public expression of the washing away of sins, or of the purification of the heart.

Forgiveness of sins is obtained solely through faith in the Lord Jesus, Acts 10:43: ”All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."

 

[SophieT]

I did respond. Guess I don't type as fast as you do.

that is not very genuine. you're starting to slip up here.

you ignore ALL scripture that plainly states baptism is symbolic and does not actually wash away sin

on the one hand, you claim salvation through Christ then you get very busy with 'obedience' through water baptism to wash away sins

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. Ephesians 2: 8-9

no works save us and even you state baptism is obedience...in other words a 'work' just as following the law which some try to do, is a work. we are saved through faith, in God's gift to us, His Son, dying in our place. why? so no one can boast. your boasting in your works does not save you

Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9

confession, not baptism...baptism is symbolic of our belief. in what? our own works? God forbid! no...in God's gift to us because of His grace...favor we do not deserve

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. I John 1:9

water is never mentioned as atonement from sin. only the blood of Christ atones for our sin. only His sacrifice is acceptable to God because He never sinned, unlike us. if we confess our sins, God cleanses us from all unrighteousness...He does not wash us or tell us to go and dunk in water

Paul calls those who change the gospel and preach another gospel, as do you, accursed

6I am amazed how quickly you are deserting the One who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7which is not even a gospel. Evidently some people are troubling you and trying to distort the gospel of Christ.

8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be under a curse! 9As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be under a curse! Galatians 1

 

[SophieT]

I replied to the scriptures you shared. You just refuse to even consider what I pointed out.

I cannot reject what the bible clearly states. It connects obedience to water baptism in the name of Jesus being done for the remission of sin.

rinse and repeat. it's the other way around. anyone reading this thread knows that unless they have fallen into the same error that you practice

you do reject what scripture teaches and go out of your way to do so and even worse, desire that others should follow you

 

[SophieT]

I'll leave you with a thought. When is the blood of Jesus applied to the believer according to the word?

that's actually a question

you believe a person is not saved until they are water baptized

But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from every sin…If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
I John 1: 7,9

what cleanses us from all sin?

The blood of Jesus.

 

[HisKid]

that's actually a question

you believe a person is not saved until they are water baptized

But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from every sin…If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
I John 1: 7,9

what cleanses us from all sin?

The blood of Jesus.

I understand where Wansvic is coming from. He believes that the blood of Jesus simply cannot forgive your sin unless and until you are dunked in water.

 

[SophieT]

many who practice beliefs outside of scripture will shy away from discussing how the blood of Christ saves us and for that matter, they will go out of their way to supply some other event or practice that actuallys aves

in this thread, the op tries to convince people that the blood of Jesus does not actually save us. we read over and over again, that unless you are immersed in water, not even Jesus can save you. you have to save yourself by getting baptized

BUT, scripture explains things very differently

Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood. Acts 20:28

and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. Colossians 1:20

In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace Ephesians 1:7

How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God! Hebrews 9:14

In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
Hebrews 9:22

There are many many more verses and passages that ascertain the only way to be saved is through the blood of Christ.

without the shedding of blood there is not forgiveness...

BLOOD, not water

 

[SophieT]

I understand where Wansvic is coming from. He believes that the blood of Jesus simply cannot forgive your sin unless and until you are dunked in water.

yup

wansvic has made that plain that is what they believe. they are not coming from the Bible with that teaching (as you know)

that is why he/she asked me that question

 

[SophieT]

Then tell us why scriptures posted is not a controlling commandment?

what is a controlling commandment?

God does not control us. Even the Israelites disobeyed and they had commandments up, down and sideways

we are saved through the blood of Christ only. His blood, shed on the cross, for us was acceptable to God

your works are not acceptable to God...frankly I don't care for them either

In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace Ephesians 1:7

 

[SophieT]

That is false scripture teaching.

Please show where the Bible...KJV please..... says baptism is not required?

better yet. show me where I said we should not be baptized

I won't hold my breath. YOU are misleading and teach a mashup of your own thoughts and whatever catches your eye as you go along

 

[SophieT]

Sources have included 20-25 associates world wide that have done a local search for any info denying baptism and found none prior to the 1960's.
This is not laboratory research but, we are so convinced we are waiting for the opponents of baptism to show we are wrong.
The search is ongoing.
NOTE...we have invited but not received one opponent of baptism listing any valid (none...in fact...not one)....documents which shows such Bible teaching before the 1960's.
Why?

HEY no one is denying baptism

try to catch up.

 

[FreeGrace2]

peldom10 said:
That is false scripture teaching.

Please show where the Bible...KJV please..... says baptism is not required?

better yet. show me where I said we should not be baptized

Well this is a good example of talking over each other.

One poster claims that water baptism is required FOR SALVATION.

The other poster responds with "show me where I said we should not be baptized".

What is needed is clarity. peldom10 thinks baptism is required in order to be saved.

Sophie thinks (correctly) that baptism is required for an act of obedience and to be symbolic of one's identification with Christ.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

HEY no one is denying baptism

try to catch up.

he has a major reading comprehension problem.

 

[peldom10]

Thank you. I appreciate your bringing it up. It's something I'm going to study out.

These which you have seen posted on this thread (convenient posturing....LOL);

Baptism is Required


Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:


John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Roman 6;3.... Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Mark16;16.... He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved.....




Many others

 

[peldom10]

peldom10 said:
That is false scripture teaching.

Please show where the Bible...KJV please..... says baptism is not required?

Well this is a good example of talking over each other.

One poster claims that water baptism is required FOR SALVATION.

The other poster responds with "show me where I said we should not be baptized".

What is needed is clarity. peldom10 thinks baptism is required in order to be saved.

Sophie thinks (correctly) that baptism is required for an act of obedience and to be symbolic of one's identification with Christ.

Not peldom10...THE BIBLE says it is required for sin repentance and forgiveness;

Baptism is Required


Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:


John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Roman 6;3.... Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Mark16;16.... He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved.....



Many others