Saved by faith alone?

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I'm not followed this thread all that closely, but there is one truth that seems to overlooked. I don't recall the place of grace in salvation getting a mention. Correct me if I'm wrong. "Grace" is stated to be our salvation along with faith (Ephesians 2:4, 8 & 9). I know this much: if not for Jesus' sacrifice and God's grace, no amount of faith could save us.
 
GWH said:
Please read the studies on the Resolving Problematic Interpretations of Scripture thread and you be the judge. (y)(n):unsure:
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From what I recall dogmatic against tulip. at some point it just becomes necessity.
 
Ouch said:
I'm confused, for sure JESUS alone is our savior but since HE'S the word what is you problem with all of HIS words?

What do you mean by taking away from HIS sacrifice by mans works when all he did was share HIS word?
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I don't understand your post. Do you know what Savior means?
 
GWH said:
I am not comfortable with you contradicting yourself.
You said "Only those chosen by God from before the foundation of the world will He save; however, God did intend that to include everyone." Please make up your mind.
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Yeah, my fault, sorry, I wasn't as clear as I should have been. My point was to convey that not everyone ever born did God intend to save. I can see why you misunderstood my post. Anyway, until you can place Jesus as the Savior above all else regarding salvation, with everything under and by Him, I don't think at this point that we have any basis for communication. So, when and if you come to that point, let me know and we can continue then.
 
studier said:
From what I recall dogmatic against tulip. at some point it just becomes necessity.
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Remember that my Baptist upbringing taught the P, but I do not remember my parents or church being dogmatic about it,
and when I came of age spiritually, GW taught me the P was wrong, so I amended that belief. Thus, I think I can claim that
if I had also been taught the TUL & I, I would have learned the Scriptures teach those points are wrong, too, but that does
not mean I am dogmatically opposed, although I am confident that my edification regarding this issue is essentially correct.
Realize, I am a truthseeker (TS).

TSers seek to learn the best belief and most logical answer to questions concerning ultimate reality. (Matt. 7:7, John 8:46, 1Cor. 2:6&13)
TSers are grateful to all people including both famous philosophers and anonymous acquaintances who help answer these questions. (Acts 17:26-31, 1Pet. 1:10-12)
TSers share their fallible faith with others, hoping they will find what they have learned helpful for understanding ultimate truth. (1Pet. 3:15b, 1Tim. 2:3-6)
TSers hope the Christian view is correct, because there is no better (credible and desirable) way of attaining heaven than NT theism. (Acts 7:51-53, Rom. 1:16-17)
TSers use logic, because they believe God is One/Logos, so right reasoning leads to all truth, both scientific and spiritual. (Isa. 1:18a, Acts 17:17)
Because TSers want to learn the best belief, when a contradictory view is deemed to be better, they are willing to change their opinion. (1Cor. 13:11, Heb. 6:1-3)
Because TSers believe moral truth is love, they everyone and thus want to share knowledge with other truthseekers, so they may fellowship (2Tim. 4:3-4, 1John 1:3).
 
GWH said:
Remember that my Baptist upbringing taught the P, but I do not remember my parents or church being dogmatic about it,
and when I came of age spiritually, GW taught me the P was wrong, so I amended that belief. Thus, I think I can claim that
if I had also been taught the TUL & I, I would have learned the Scriptures teach those points are wrong, too, but that does
not mean I am dogmatically opposed, although I am confident that my edification regarding this issue is essentially correct.
Realize, I am a truthseeker (TS).

TSers seek to learn the best belief and most logical answer to questions concerning ultimate reality. (Matt. 7:7, John 8:46, 1Cor. 2:6&13)
TSers are grateful to all people including both famous philosophers and anonymous acquaintances who help answer these questions. (Acts 17:26-31, 1Pet. 1:10-12)
TSers share their fallible faith with others, hoping they will find what they have learned helpful for understanding ultimate truth. (1Pet. 3:15b, 1Tim. 2:3-6)
TSers hope the Christian view is correct, because there is no better (credible and desirable) way of attaining heaven than NT theism. (Acts 7:51-53, Rom. 1:16-17)
TSers use logic, because they believe God is One/Logos, so right reasoning leads to all truth, both scientific and spiritual. (Isa. 1:18a, Acts 17:17)
Because TSers want to learn the best belief, when a contradictory view is deemed to be better, they are willing to change their opinion. (1Cor. 13:11, Heb. 6:1-3)
Because TSers believe moral truth is love, they everyone and thus want to share knowledge with other truthseekers, so they may fellowship (2Tim. 4:3-4, 1John 1:3).
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Again, all sides in disagreement likely see themselves in your TSers list. You seem to not be seeing your conclusions as dogmatic, yet you are taking seemingly dogmatic positions against P for example and saying it is a maturity in GW that taught you this. I'm sure you can see the implications against those who agree with P. So, at some point, dialectic done on the issue?

Is there ultimately any way to have a productive dialectic with some of the positions recently stated towards you in this thread? Ultimately they fairly clearly state that you do not know Jesus as Savior and do not understand His Salvation.
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
No, I'm not adding it, God is
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No. God is well pleased with what Christ did to save the seed Isa 53 10-11

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
 
brightfame52 said:
No. God is well pleased with what Christ did to save the seed Isa 53 10-11

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
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But again, he's not pleased with people with hypocritical faith, ie, those who call him lord but don't do what he says.
 
rogerg said:
I don't understand your post. Do you know what Savior means?
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Sure do, I also know what sinners mean.

I have no idea why you didn't like HIS word and wanted to understand by taking away from HIS sacrifice by mans works when all he did was share HIS word?
 
brightfame52 said:
This has nothing to do with what God is pleased with to save a soul. When it comes to that, He is well pleased with the work of Christ. Why are you resisting this ?
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It has everything to do with it. Jesus plainly said that many who think they are saved, but don;t do his will, will be told to depart from him
 
studier said:
Again, all sides in disagreement likely see themselves in your TSers list. You seem to not be seeing your conclusions as dogmatic, yet you are taking seemingly dogmatic positions against P for example and saying it is a maturity in GW that taught you this. I'm sure you can see the implications against those who agree with P. So, at some point, dialectic done on the issue?

Is there ultimately any way to have a productive dialectic with some of the positions recently stated towards you in this thread? Ultimately they fairly clearly state that you do not know Jesus as Savior and do not understand His Salvation.
Click to expand...

You seem uninterested in/dismissive of attempting to resolve disagreement via systematic study of GW,
so if you have a better way of learning the truth about this issue, please share it, because those who lob insults
apparently do not, but yes, with them I place my bet, knowing that I tried, and believing that God will judge ultimately.

However, I also want to share what I have learned to that other truthseekers will not be led astray. For example,
you seem to think the tulipists can claim with a straight face to be TSers, having the following ideals?:

TSers seek to learn the best belief and most logical answer to questions concerning ultimate reality. (Matt. 7:7, John 8:46, 1Cor. 2:6&13)
TSers are grateful to all people including both famous philosophers and anonymous acquaintances who help answer these questions. (Acts 17:26-31, 1Pet. 1:10-12)
TSers share their fallible faith with others, hoping they will find what they have learned helpful for understanding ultimate truth. (1Pet. 3:15b, 1Tim. 2:3-6)
TSers hope the Christian view is correct, because there is no better (credible and desirable) way of attaining heaven than NT theism. (Acts 7:51-53, Rom. 1:16-17)
TSers use logic, because they believe God is One/Logos, so right reasoning leads to all truth, both scientific and spiritual. (Isa. 1:18a, Acts 17:17)
Because TSers want to learn the best belief, when a contradictory view is deemed to be better, they are willing to change their opinion. (1Cor. 13:11, Heb. 6:1-3)
Because TSers believe moral truth is love, they everyone and thus want to share knowledge with other truthseekers, so they may fellowship (2Tim. 4:3-4, 1John 1:3).
 
Gideon300 said:
I'm not followed this thread all that closely, but there is one truth that seems to overlooked. I don't recall the place of grace in salvation getting a mention. Correct me if I'm wrong. "Grace" is stated to be our salvation along with faith (Ephesians 2:4, 8 & 9). I know this much: if not for Jesus' sacrifice and God's grace, no amount of faith could save us.
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So, if I may, in taking that one step further, if someone should die unsaved, then they could not have been given that grace, because had they been, they would therefore have become saved. Therefore, with salvation being by grace as you correctly state, the faith that saves cannot be man's faith but the same faith manifested grace: the faith of Christ, and not the faith that comes from grace.
 
GWH said:
You seem uninterested in/dismissive of attempting to resolve disagreement via systematic study of GW,
so if you have a better way of learning the truth about this issue, please share it, because those who lob insults
apparently do not, but yes, with them I place my bet, knowing that I tried, and believing that God will judge ultimately.

However, I also want to share what I have learned to that other truthseekers will not be led astray. For example,
you seem to think the tulipists can claim with a straight face to be TSers, having the following ideals?:

TSers seek to learn the best belief and most logical answer to questions concerning ultimate reality. (Matt. 7:7, John 8:46, 1Cor. 2:6&13)
TSers are grateful to all people including both famous philosophers and anonymous acquaintances who help answer these questions. (Acts 17:26-31, 1Pet. 1:10-12)
TSers share their fallible faith with others, hoping they will find what they have learned helpful for understanding ultimate truth. (1Pet. 3:15b, 1Tim. 2:3-6)
TSers hope the Christian view is correct, because there is no better (credible and desirable) way of attaining heaven than NT theism. (Acts 7:51-53, Rom. 1:16-17)
TSers use logic, because they believe God is One/Logos, so right reasoning leads to all truth, both scientific and spiritual. (Isa. 1:18a, Acts 17:17)
Because TSers want to learn the best belief, when a contradictory view is deemed to be better, they are willing to change their opinion. (1Cor. 13:11, Heb. 6:1-3)
Because TSers believe moral truth is love, they everyone and thus want to share knowledge with other truthseekers, so they may fellowship (2Tim. 4:3-4, 1John 1:3).
Click to expand...

Have you resolved disagreement with tulipers through your efforts here - have they dropped any of tulip through your dialectic pursuit?

Are you taking dogmatic positions even just in your overall position that you are trying to get them to see their error or God will judge them?

Do you think that they think the same thing about you being the one needing to change?

Yes, I think they see themselves in that list, just as you do. And you judge them wrong and they judge you wrong and everybody thinks Scripture proves them right.
 
rogerg said:
Yeah, my fault, sorry, I wasn't as clear as I should have been. My point was to convey that not everyone ever born did God intend to save. I can see why you misunderstood my post. Anyway, until you can place Jesus as the Savior above all else regarding salvation, with everything under and by Him, I don't think at this point that we have any basis for communication. So, when and if you come to that point, let me know and we can continue then.
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rogerg said:
Yeah, my fault, sorry, I wasn't as clear as I should have been. My point was to convey that not everyone ever born did God intend to save. I can see why you misunderstood my post. Anyway, until you can place Jesus as the Savior above all else regarding salvation, with everything under and by Him, I don't think at this point that we have any basis for communication. So, when and if you come to that point, let me know and we can continue then.
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What part of "yes" in #2,747 did you not understand?
After agreeing that Jesus is the only Way I attempted to share how that worked for folks who never heard of Jesus,
which includes everyone living B.C. and millions of people who have lived A.D.

If God loves the world (John 3:16) and wants everyone to be saved (2Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11), then He must provide an opportunity. God’s just judgment is illustrated by Jesus in the Parable of the Talents (Matt. 25:14-29), which indicates that God will judge souls on the basis of the truth (Word = Christ per John 1:1f.) they have received.

Do you want to continue from this point?
 
brightfame52 said:
no it doesnt
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Faith Alone seems to cause some confusion sometimes. Some say faith plus works. I believe they could both be correct since real faith includes works. Before Jesus sacrificed Himself for us, salvation was based on faith in God that produced works. One’s works had to be 100% to be saved. Same as today.

If John Doe’s works only added up to 60% then he was not saved. Jesus’ sacrifice makes up the lacking 40%. Now John Doe is 100% and acceptable to the Father. If John Doe today hears its not by works but by faith alone, then he may misunderstand and be tempted to not worry about his 60%, expecting Jesus to cover 100%. He says I can just be lazy and let the Lord carry me through. Does He have faith? Maybe. Does He love the Lord? No. Jesus therefore tells Him to depart from Him.

Meanwhile Jane Doe hears what Jesus did and loves Him so much that she puts in effort to get to 80%. Jesus gladly makes up the 20% and welcomes her.

We can never meet the 100% standard without Him but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try and take some of the load and suffering off of Him. Faith does not equal works. Works do not equal faith. But Love equals faith and works. We are saved by Love alone, His love for us and our love for Him.
 
Just_A__Follower said:
Faith Alone seems to cause some confusion sometimes. Some say faith plus works. I believe they could both be correct since real faith includes works. Before Jesus sacrificed Himself for us, salvation was based on faith in God that produced works. One’s works had to be 100% to be saved. Same as today.
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False, Salvation has always been by Faith, in that Faith was given to them Christ by His work saved. The OT Saints looked by Faith to Christ to come and His Death for them, and NT Saints look back by Faith on the Work of Christ that saved them. The ones being saved, no work of theirs was required. Even their God given Faith was not required for God through Christ to save them, it was given to give them a knowledge, assurance and evidence that Christ saved them.
 
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