Saved by faith alone?

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GWH said:
Here are some more clear, concise and foundational verses.

From Matthew

  1. Repent (4:17, F)
  2. Recognize one’s spiritual poverty (5:3, F)
  3. Be righteous (5:20, W)
  4. Love your enemies (5:44, W)
  5. Forgive those who offend you (6:14, 18:35, W)
  6. Serve God (6:24&33, W)
  7. Enter the narrow gate (7:13, F)
  8. Do God’s will (7:21 & 12:50, F&W)
  9. Hear and act (7:24, F&W)
  10. Confess Jesus (10:32, W)
  11. Love Jesus (10:37, F)
  12. Give life to Jesus (10:39& 16:24-25, F)
  13. Have no doubt (11:6, F)
  14. Come to Jesus (11:28, F)
  15. Learn from Jesus (11:29, W)
  16. Be for Jesus (12:30, F)
  17. Understand (13:23, F)
  18. Be good (5:48 & 13:38,43,49, W)
  19. Value salvation (13:44-46, F)
  20. Believe Jesus (16:16& 21:32, F)
  21. Become humble (18:3-4 & 19:14, W)
  22. Forgive others (18:35, W)
  23. Obey the commandments (19:17, W)
  24. Give to the poor (19:21, W)
  25. Follow Jesus (19:21&29, F)
  26. Yield fruit (21:43, W)
  27. Dress appropriately (22:11-14, cf. RV 16:15, W)
  28. Love God, neighbor & self (22:37-40, W)
  29. Hold out until the end (24:13, F)
  30. Keep awake (24:42 & 25:13, F)
  31. Be ready (24:44, F&W)
  32. Be trustworthy and useful (25:21&30, F&W)
  33. Help Jesus’ brothers (25:34-40, W)
  34. Be righteous/do right (25:46, F&W)
More from Mark and Luke

35. Accept the kingdom (Mark 10:15, F)
36. Believe the Gospel (Mark 16:16, F)
37. Receive baptism (Mark 16:16, W)
38. Be hated (Luke 6:22-23, W)
39. Lend (Luke 6:35, W)
40. Judge not (Luke 6:37, W)
41. Invite the poor to your party (Luke 14:13-14, W)
42. Use wealth wisely (Luke 16:9, W)
43. Stand firm (Luke 21:19, F)

From John

44. Be born again (3:3&6, F)
45. Come to the light (3:21, F)
46. Drink living water (4:14, F)
47. Heed Jesus (5:24, W)
48. Do right (5:29, W)
49. Work for the food of life (6:27, W)
50. Believe in the one God has sent (F)
51. Partake of the bread of life (6:33-35&51, F)
52. Eat the flesh and drink the blood of X (6:54, F)
53. Dwell within the truth (8:31&35, W)
54. Obey the Son (8:51 & 14:15, F&W)
55. Hate self; serve Jesus (12:25-26, W)
56. Accept Jesus’ words (12:47, F)
57. Follow Jesus’ example (13:15-17, W)
58. Dwell in Jesus and in love (15:5-10, F&W)
59. Heed his command (15:10-12, F)
60. Know God and Jesus Christ (17:3, F)
61. Believe Jesus is Christ/Son (20:31, F)

GRFS per Peter and Paul

From Acts

62. Call on the name of the Lord (Acts 2:21)
63. Repent and be baptized (Acts 2:38, cf. 3:19)
64. Believe in Jesus (Acts 10:43, cf. 13:39&48)
65. Believe in the Lord Jesus (Acts 16:31, cf. 18:8)
66. Repent and turn to God (Acts 26:20)

These only become "problematic" when someone doesn't like what they state.
Would you like some more?
Click to expand...

Wrong! Jesus Christ is the one and only Savior and foundation of the gospel and of salvation. You believe that doing those things can save you? You would take away the efficacy of Christ and His offering/sacrifice, replacing Christ instead with man's works. There is only ONE Savior and that is Christ alone. Do you understand what it means to be the Savior, and in being the Savior, what He had achieved?

[1Co 3:11 KJV] 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
 
rogerg said:
Wrong! Jesus Christ is the one and only Savior and foundation of the gospel and of salvation. You believe that doing those things can save you? You would take away the efficacy of Christ and His offering/sacrifice, replacing Christ instead with man's works. There is only ONE Savior and that is Christ alone. Do you understand what it means to be the Savior, and in being the Savior, what He had achieved?

[1Co 3:11 KJV] 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Click to expand...

I see you find harmonizing GW problematic, apparently thinking those 66 verses contradict
belief in Jesus Christ as the one and only Savior.
 
GWH said:
I see you find harmonizing GW problematic, apparently thinking those 66 verses contradict
belief in Jesus Christ as the one and only Savior.
Click to expand...

So, then you agree that Jesus alone is Savior, and those verses therefore will not, cannot, bring salvation to anyone?
IOW, the doing of them is after and from salvation and are not unto salvation, correct? A simple yes or no will suffice.
 
brightfame52 said:
Yeah, the work of Christ, His Faithfulness
Click to expand...


Even if Jesus tells you one work by us is acceptable, you will not accept it?

Not by works.
But by One work of faith.

Here....

What did Jesus say is the one work that God accepts?



Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man ​
will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”​
​
Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”​
​
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” John 6:27-29​


Jesus did not lie...
 
GWH said:
I believe the verses I cited plus the rest of GW, including Tit. 3:5,
but I doubt this settles the TULIP/MFW issue, which I am attempting to do
systematically on the Resolving Problematic Interpretations of Scripture thread,
because I agree about not "going back and forth" regarding the issue.
You are free to join that study or not.
Click to expand...

Do you truly believe you will resolve debates between systems about interpretations? Indoctrinated Christians IMO may be the toughest resolution challenge in existence. Or are you saying you'll resolve interpretations as you see them?
 
rogerg said:
So, then you agree that Jesus alone is Savior, and those verses therefore will not, cannot, bring salvation to anyone?
IOW, the doing of them is after and from salvation and are not unto salvation, correct? A simple yes or no will suffice.
Click to expand...

Yes.
But life is rarely simple.
An obvious question to ask at this point is, “What is GRFS for those who have never heard of Jesus?” (which includes everyone living B.C. and millions of people who have lived A.D.) If God loves the world (John 3:16) and wants everyone to be saved (2Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11), then He must provide an opportunity. God’s just judgment is illustrated by Jesus in the Parable of the Talents (Matt. 25:14-29), which indicates that God will judge souls on the basis of the truth (Word = Christ per John 1:1f.) they have received.

There are two main ways God/Christ is encountered:

1. General revelation, which includes meditating on the natural world or God’s supernatural work and moral conscience. Paul said men are without excuse, both because God’s eternal power and divine nature (love) are manifested by creation (Rom. 1:20), and because a proto-gospel has been proclaimed to everyone under heaven implicitly or in pre-NT foreshadowings (Col. 1:23, Rom. 10:13-18, Gal. 3:8). He also taught that all normal humans have an inner conscience or “common” sense (Rom. 2:14-16), which manifests morality or a moral Authority in every culture. Thus, sinners have no excuse for not seeking God’s salvation or being truthseekers (Matthew 7:7, Hebrews 11:6).

2. Special revelation (1Pet. 1:8-12), which refers mainly to divinely inspired NT teaching regarding God’s history of salvation. Again, the Parable of the Talents indicates that souls are saved via faith in God/ Christ as revealed (cf. 1Cor. 10:1-5). Truthseekers around the world in all times are pilgrims at various places along the road of life, and all true roads eventually lead to the Way to eternal life in heaven (John 14:6, Acts 24:14, Phil. 2:10-11). All truth leads to One Way.
 
Genez said:
Even if Jesus tells you one work by us is acceptable, you will not accept it?

Not by works.
But by One work of faith.

Here....

What did Jesus say is the one work that God accepts?



Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man ​
will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”​
​
Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”​
​
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” John 6:27-29​


Jesus did not lie...
Click to expand...
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” John 6:27-29

This is Jesus expressing his faith and also his faith can be expressed through people he has it given to in exactly the same way here.

So there's no need to call people a liar over it

I Would recommend you do a study when a person no longer has a choice, it may help your you realise some important things
 
studier said:
Do you truly believe you will resolve debates between systems about interpretations? Indoctrinated Christians IMO may be the toughest resolution challenge in existence. Or are you saying you'll resolve interpretations as you see them?
Click to expand...

I am a Boy Scout, who pledges:

"On my honor I will do my best To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times; To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight."

In this application, I do my best to harmonize the Scriptures cited by both sides of the issue,
which is rarely if ever done by those who are dogmatic. I affirm dialectical theology as a valid hermeneutical method.
The word dialectic refers to the discussion of opposing ideas using both logic and faith/GW.

IOW, we are responsible for trying to grant the prayer of Jesus in John 17:20-23, but not for the result of our efforts.
Each person is accountable for his/her own sins (Ezek. 18:20).
 
GWH said:
I am a Boy Scout, who pledges:

"On my honor I will do my best To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times; To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight."

In this application, I do my best to harmonize the Scriptures cited by both sides of the issue,
which is rarely if ever done by those who are dogmatic. I affirm dialectical theology as a valid hermeneutical method.
The word dialectic refers to the discussion of opposing ideas using both logic and faith/GW.

IOW, we are responsible for trying to grant the prayer of Jesus in John 17:20-23, but not for the result of our efforts.
Each person is accountable for his/her own sins (Ezek. 18:20).
Click to expand...

There certainly can be a fine line between dialectic and dogmatic and between self-analysis vs. legitimate critique by others. I think we all end up in some level of systematic interpretation and everyone seems to think they are doing Spirit-led harmonization.
 
GWH said:
An obvious question to ask at this point is, “What is GRFS for those who have never heard of Jesus?” (which includes everyone living B.C. and millions of people who have lived A.D.) If God loves the world (John 3:16) and wants everyone to be saved (2Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11), then He must provide an opportunity. God’s just judgment is illustrated by Jesus in the Parable of the Talents (Matt. 25:14-29), which indicates that God will judge souls on the basis of the truth (Word = Christ per John 1:1f.) they have received.
Click to expand...

Only those chosen by God from before the foundation of the world will He save; however, God did intend that to include everyone. Those chosen, and at a time selected by Him, without exception, will and must become saved. It was/is God's divine right and prerogative to do as He so pleases - and He owes no explanation nor apology to anyone for it. God ensures that His chosen hear, come to faith in, and remain in Christ until the end – all God’s work; none of it man’s. Therefore, to become saved is not a function of man but of God, and thereby, Jesus Christ alone is THE Savior as Scripture clearly and plainly tells us that He is.

I realize that you are not comfortable with this doctrine, but please, read the following verses and ponder their meanings and implications closely.


[1Pe 1:2-5 KJV]
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

[Tit 3:5-7 KJV]
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
 
studier said:
There certainly can be a fine line between dialectic and dogmatic and between self-analysis vs. legitimate critique by others. I think we all end up in some level of systematic interpretation and everyone seems to think they are doing Spirit-led harmonization.
Click to expand...

Yes, and where that line is drawn is due to MFW.
The Pharisaic and tulipist dogmas were/are closed systems,
whereas we ought to have open minds/hearts (Matt. 13:14-15).
I have yet to see a tulipist do systematic harmonization of GW supporting MFW.
The Scriptures I have interpreted in context thus far include Romans 9, 1Cor. 2:14, Jer. 17:9a, Duet. 29:4 and Eph. 1:3-14,
but they rejected the results--for which I am not responsible. ;)
 
rogerg said:
Wrong! Jesus Christ is the one and only Savior and foundation of the gospel and of salvation. You believe that doing those things can save you? You would take away the efficacy of Christ and His offering/sacrifice, replacing Christ instead with man's works. There is only ONE Savior and that is Christ alone. Do you understand what it means to be the Savior, and in being the Savior, what He had achieved?

[1Co 3:11 KJV] 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Click to expand...

I'm confused, for sure JESUS alone is our savior but since HE'S the word what is you problem with all of HIS words?

What do you mean by taking away from HIS sacrifice by mans works when all he did was share HIS word?
 
Man is saved through faith and not by works (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is (evidenced) by works. (James 2:14-24)

*Jesus saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works. (Romans 3:24-26) Not to be confused with an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains "alone" barren of works. (James 2:14)

It is through faith "in Jesus Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 4:5-6; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony*
 
rogerg said:
Only those chosen by God from before the foundation of the world will He save; however, God did intend that to include everyone. Those chosen, and at a time selected by Him, without exception, will and must become saved. It was/is God's divine right and prerogative to do as He so pleases - and He owes no explanation nor apology to anyone for it. God ensures that His chosen hear, come to faith in, and remain in Christ until the end – all God’s work; none of it man’s. Therefore, to become saved is not a function of man but of God, and thereby, Jesus Christ alone is THE Savior as Scripture clearly and plainly tells us that He is.

I realize that you are not comfortable with this doctrine, but please, read the following verses and ponder their meanings and implications closely.

[1Pe 1:2-5 KJV]
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

[Tit 3:5-7 KJV]
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Click to expand...

I am not comfortable with you contradicting yourself.
You said "Only those chosen by God from before the foundation of the world will He save; however, God did intend that to include everyone." Please make up your mind.

I also am not comfortable with you telling God "Those chosen... will and must become saved", when GW indicates that He allows souls to displease Him by resisting His intent/will that they be saved (1Tim. 2:3-4).

I also am uncomfortable with your interpreting GW to imply/mean that God is unjust by showing favoritism to the elect
(unless you believe all will be saved). You owe God an apology for falsely accusing Him (per Rom. 2:11&16, Eph. 6:9, Col. 3:25,
and 1Pet. 1:17).

Regarding the verses you quoted, they should be interpreted and harmonized with other verses.

1Pet. 1:2-5: 2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. 3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

TOP #41: Christians are God’s elect, chosen according to divine foreknowledge. [1Pet. 1:1-2&20 = Rom. 8:28-30] Jesus (in Matt. 24:22-31) also referred to his disciples as elect (cf. Rom. 11:7, 11:28 & 2Tim. 2:10), and Jesus’s crucifixion is connected with God’s foreknowledge by Peter (in Acts 2:23). Paul told Titus that God promised eternal life before the beginning (Tit. 1:2).

Divine foreknowledge is part of omniscience. When affirming this doctrine, it must be maintained that God’s foreknowledge does not predetermine a person’s spiritual choice regarding the satisfaction of God’s requirement for salvation or else moral responsibility would be abrogated (cf. 1Tim. 2:3-4 & Matt. 23:37).

While God’s love is unconditional (John 3:16, Matt. 5:44&48), His salvation is conditional upon a souls’ repentance, which many refuse to do (Matt. 22:14, Acts 28:26-27). Although it is easier to understand how God could know future human behavior by viewing people as robots than as free moral agents, it is more difficult to explain how God could force people to return His love without abrogating their humanity. If God were to zap the elect in order to force their conversions, then He would need to prevent people from behaving hatefully and thinking evilly, which would make the biblical plan of salvation from sinfulness a farce.

Tit 3:5-7: 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

This passage should be connected with Eph. 2:8-10:

TOP #149: Sinners are saved by God’s grace through their faith, which is not a meritorious work. [Eph. 2:8-9] This precludes any grounds for boasting that one deserves salvation because of a person’s own goodness (cf. TOP #250). God’s grace begins by enabling all sinners to seek Him and find salvation, which might be called “seeking grace” (Matt. 7:7, Tit. 2:11).

TOP #150: Saving faith is followed by doing good or loving works in accordance with the will of God. [Eph. 2:10] This relationship between saving faith and good works is taught also in Jam. 2:14-26.

There is no qualitative difference between faith that accepts God’s saving grace at conversion and faith that accepts God’s working grace or motivates good works while walking/living (Eph. 2:8-10, 2Cor. 5:7), but only a quantitative difference as each additional moment passes–and of course faith remains non-meritorious during the saint’s entire lifetime (Rom. 1:17). IOW, the ability to do good works as well as have saving faith are both due to God’s grace.
 
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