"Salvation": What Is It?

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I've already spoken with him before this conversation; I already know him, and that he is a heretic -- and an unteachable heretic. He is lost, and unwilling to listen to the Truth, in order to be saved. I have no interest in speaking with him, and wish for him to not post here, starting quarrels based on twisting Scriptures.


I believe we will all be victorious in Christ and you see me burning in the lake of fire. If there is any evil or divisiveness in my message, say it plainly. Do not hide behind a verse in a book. Who does not belong to Christ? Will not all men be drawn to Him?

There is a reason God has blinded the minds of those that do not believe this message.
 
I believe we will all be victorious in Christ and you see me burning in the lake of fire. If there is any evil or divisiveness in my message, say it plainly. Do not hide behind a verse in a book. Who does not belong to Christ? Will not all men be drawn to Him?

There is a reason God has blinded the minds of those that do not believe this message.

You have no idea what you're saying -- it is the god of THIS AGE (satan) who blinds people.
 
You have no idea what you're saying -- it is the god of THIS AGE (satan) who blinds people.

Romans 11:7-8

7What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

8(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.


HOW does He do it? Read your answer.
 
Romans 11:7-8

7What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

8(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.


HOW does He do it? Read your answer.

"In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God." 2 Cor 4:4

This was the verse you were aiming at when you mentioned "God" blinding people. Can we just continue this in Private Messages? This is too in-depth of a matter than to be dealt with on the thread: it is off-topic.
 
You are asking too many questions. The respondents will start to back off from answering them because you are beginning to apply logic to your questions which is not helpful to one's faith.

You only need to accept Jesus as your saviour in order to be absolved from the responsibility of your sins and gain the reward of everlasting life (assuming this is actually something that anyone would really want).

So in essence, provided you are a sycophant to the idea, you can block out the responsibilty in your mind of all the bad things you have done. Making amends for your sins and misdemeanors, by repairing the damage or compensating your victims, is not necessary - such actions are only deemed the right thing to do in the human-administered world.

That is a good name for you, sloppy. Have you read the bible yet?

Why do we need a saviour?
Why did the Jews use animal sacrifices?
What is passover?
Why is the location of the blood on the sides and top of the doorposts significant?
Why is blood needed as a sacrifice?
How can you accept Jesus as Saviour if you don't know why you need a Saviour or what He has accomplished?
 
That is a good name for you, sloppy. Have you read the bible yet?

Why do we need a saviour?
Why did the Jews use animal sacrifices?
What is passover?
Why is the location of the blood on the sides and top of the doorposts significant?
Why is blood needed as a sacrifice?
How can you accept Jesus as Saviour if you don't know why you need a Saviour or what He has accomplished?


Yes I've read the bible.

I can answer those questions but what would be the relevance?
 
What I am saying is that NOT all believers will go to heaven, BECAUSE they do not apply what they agree is TRUE to real life, nor their minds... there must be some POWER in a man's life; we must be filled with the Spirit continuously...
 
Orthodoxy and Western Christianity: Salvation in Christ

Works are Necessary for One's Salvation
A Letter to a Layman
by St. Macarius of Optina
(19th Century)

"I set forth my poor judgment not from my own meager understanding, but—hoping in the God of wisdom and Lord, Who grants speech even to irrational beasts for the benefit of His people—I set it forth from His word and from the writings of the God-inspired Fathers, who after an active life left us their teaching as guidance.

Faith is the foundation of all good deeds, and without faith it is impossible to please the Lord (Heb. 11:6). She is the gift of God (cf. Mark 16:16; Matt. 28:19-20).

The Holy Apostle James teaches: What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works, can faith save him?... Faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.... For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also (James 2:14,17,26).

For our salvation one needs not simply faith alone, but works also. The words of the Apostle Paul: By the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified (Romans 3:20) refer to the works of the Old Testament laws and not to the new commandments of grace.

The reasoning that justification is obtained by faith alone without works is Lutheran, heterodox.

But he who trusts in his own works even with faith errs.

After baptism it is without fail necessary to keep God's commandments, by which the grace given at baptism is preserved and, to the measure of one's proficiency in the commandments, is increased.

Having transgressed the commandments, by repentance one again acquires grace. All this acts through faith, but without faith one could not perform deeds of repentance.

In every case both faith and deeds are involved.

But one must not think that one's deeds merit salvation: the merits of the Savior afford us this.

One must do good deeds but not place hope in them. To place hope in one's deeds is a sign of self-reliance. The Lord does not always grant us strength to perform good deeds, but rather allows the passions to be strengthened in us so that we might acknowledge our weakness and humble ourselves before God, remembering God's commandment: Whenever you do what has been commanded you, say we are unprofitable servants,for we have done that which it was our duty to do (Luke 17:10). Read in Volume One of The Philokalia the book by St. Mark the Ascetic, "On Those Who Think that They are Made Righteous by Works" (Chapters 1-7, 11-24).

Knowing that deeds are necessary for salvation and striving to perform them, one finds no strength in oneself, one is conquered by the passions, one is troubled and perplexed as to what to do. Of course, placing one's hope in God and on the prayers of those who pleased Him can help much in the work of our salvation, but becoming troubled at one's fall proceeds from spiritual pride. The evil spirits oppose our salvation: our adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour (I Peter 5:8).

"If you love true knowledge, devote yourself to the ascetic life, for mere theoretical knowledge puffs up a man" (St. Mark the Ascetic).*

Our warfare is not against flesh and blood but against principalities and powers and against the world rulers of darkness of this age and against spiritual wickedness in the under heavens (Eph. 6:12).

Fighting with such foes, one must have a strong weapon against them, and that is humility, which they cannot oppose. But in doing battle with them without humility, self-reliantly and proudly, one will always be defeated. For this reason the Lord allows us to fall so that we might humble ourselves (see Homily 51 of St. Isaac the Syrian and also in Volume One of The Philokalia, Homilies 7 and 46 of St. John of Karpathos). A heart that is broken and humbled God will not despise (Ps. 50:17) and The Lord is nigh unto them that are of a contrite heart and He will save the humble of spirit (Ps. 33:18).

From Elder Macarius of Optina, by Fr. Leonid Kavelin (Platina, CA: St. Herman of Alaska Brotherhood Press, 1995), pp. 316-319.






An Excerpt from On Those who Think that They are Made Righteous by Works: Two Hundred and Twenty-Six Texts
by St. Mark the Ascetic
(5th Century)

1. In the texts which follow, the beliefs of those in error will be refuted by those whose faith is well founded and who know the truth.

2. Wishing to show that to fulfil every commandment is a duty, whereas sonship is a gift given to men through His own Blood, the Lord said: 'When you have done all that is commanded you, say: "We are useless servants: we have only done what was our duty"' (Luke 17:10). Thus the kingdom of heaven is not a reward for works, but a gift of grace prepared by the Master for his faithful servants.

3. A slave does not demand his freedom as a reward; but he gives satisfaction as one who is in debt, and he receives freedom as a gift.

4. 'Christ died on account of our sins in accordance with the Scriptures' (I Cor. 15:3); and to those who serve Him well He gives freedom. 'Well done, good and faithful servant,' He says, 'you have been faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many: enter into the joy of your Lord' (Matt. 25: 21).

5. He who relies on theoretical knowledge alone is not yet a faithful servant: a faithful servant is one who expresses his faith in things Christ through obedience to His commandments.

6. He who honours the Lord does what the Lord bids. When he sins or is disobedient, he patiently accepts what comes as something he deserves.

7. If you love true knowledge, devote yourself to the ascetic life; for mere theoretical, knowledge puffs a man up (cf. I Cor. 8:1).

. . .

11. Those who, because of the rigour of their own ascetic practice, despise the less zealous, think that they are made righteous by physical works. But we are even more foolish if we rely on theoretical knowledge and disparage the ignorant.

12. Even though knowledge is true, it is still not firmly established if unaccompanied by works. For everything is established by being put into practice.

13. Often our knowledge becomes darkened because we fail to put things into practice. For when we have totally neglected to practise something, our memory of it will gradually disappear. [For the preceding two instructions cf. James 1:22-24]

14. For this reason Scripture urges us to acquire the knowledge of God, so that through our works we may serve Him rightly.

15. When we fulfil the commandments in our outward actions, we receive from the Lord what is appropriate; but any real benefit we gain depends on our inward intention.

16. If we want to do something but cannot, then before God, who knows our hearts, it is as if we have done it. This is true whether the intended action is good or bad.

17. The intellect does many good and bad things without the body, whereas the body can do neither good nor evil without the intellect. This is because the law of freedom applies to what happens before we act.

18. Some without fulfilling the commandments think that they possess true faith. Others fulfil the commandments and then expect the Kingdom as a reward due to them. Both are mistaken.

19. A master is under no obligation to reward his slaves; on the other hand, those who do not serve him well are not given their freedom.

20. If 'Christ died on our account in accordance with the Scriptures' (Rom. 5:8; 1 Cor. I5: 3), and we do not 'live for ourselves', but 'for Him who died and rose' on our account (2 Cor. 5:15), it is clear that we are debtors to Christ to serve Him till our death. How then can we regard sonship as something which is our due?

21. Christ is Master by virtue of His own essence and Master by virtue of His incarnate life. For He creates man from nothing, and through His own Blood redeems him when dead in sin; and to those who believe in Him He has given His grace.

22. When Scripture says 'He will reward every man according to his works' (Matt. 16:27), do not imagine that works in themselves merit either hell or the kingdom. On the contrary, Christ rewards each man according to whether his works are done with faith or without faith in Himself; and He is not a dealer bound by contract, but God our Creator and Redeemer.

2 3. We who have received baptism offer good works, not by way of repayment, but to preserve the purity given to us.

24. Every good work which we perform through our own natural powers causes us to refrain from the corresponding sin; but without grace it cannot contribute to our sanctification.

From The Philokalia, vol. 1 (London: Faber & Faber, 1979), pp. 125-127."
 
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Orthodoxy and Western Christianity: Salvation in Christ

Works are Necessary for One's Salvation
A Letter to a Layman
by St. Macarius of Optina
(19th Century)

"I set forth my poor judgment not from my own meager understanding, but—hoping in the God of wisdom and Lord, Who grants speech even to irrational beasts for the benefit of His people—I set it forth from His word and from the writings of the God-inspired Fathers, who after an active life left us their teaching as guidance.

Faith is the foundation of all good deeds, and without faith it is impossible to please the Lord (Heb. 11:6). She is the gift of God (cf. Mark 16:16; Matt. 28:19-20).

The Holy Apostle James teaches: What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works, can faith save him?... Faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.... For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also (James 2:14,17,26).

For our salvation one needs not simply faith alone, but works also. The words of the Apostle Paul: By the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified (Romans 3:20) refer to the works of the Old Testament laws and not to the new commandments of grace.

The reasoning that justification is obtained by faith alone without works is Lutheran, heterodox.

But he who trusts in his own works even with faith errs.

After baptism it is without fail necessary to keep God's commandments, by which the grace given at baptism is preserved and, to the measure of one's proficiency in the commandments, is increased.

Having transgressed the commandments, by repentance one again acquires grace. All this acts through faith, but without faith one could not perform deeds of repentance.

In every case both faith and deeds are involved.

But one must not think that one's deeds merit salvation: the merits of the Savior afford us this.

One must do good deeds but not place hope in them. To place hope in one's deeds is a sign of self-reliance. The Lord does not always grant us strength to perform good deeds, but rather allows the passions to be strengthened in us so that we might acknowledge our weakness and humble ourselves before God, remembering God's commandment: Whenever you do what has been commanded you, say we are unprofitable servants,for we have done that which it was our duty to do (Luke 17:10). Read in Volume One of The Philokalia the book by St. Mark the Ascetic, "On Those Who Think that They are Made Righteous by Works" (Chapters 1-7, 11-24).

Knowing that deeds are necessary for salvation and striving to perform them, one finds no strength in oneself, one is conquered by the passions, one is troubled and perplexed as to what to do. Of course, placing one's hope in God and on the prayers of those who pleased Him can help much in the work of our salvation, but becoming troubled at one's fall proceeds from spiritual pride. The evil spirits oppose our salvation: our adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour (I Peter 5:8).

"If you love true knowledge, devote yourself to the ascetic life, for mere theoretical knowledge puffs up a man" (St. Mark the Ascetic).*

Our warfare is not against flesh and blood but against principalities and powers and against the world rulers of darkness of this age and against spiritual wickedness in the under heavens (Eph. 6:12).

Fighting with such foes, one must have a strong weapon against them, and that is humility, which they cannot oppose. But in doing battle with them without humility, self-reliantly and proudly, one will always be defeated. For this reason the Lord allows us to fall so that we might humble ourselves (see Homily 51 of St. Isaac the Syrian and also in Volume One of The Philokalia, Homilies 7 and 46 of St. John of Karpathos). A heart that is broken and humbled God will not despise (Ps. 50:17) and The Lord is nigh unto them that are of a contrite heart and He will save the humble of spirit (Ps. 33:18).

From Elder Macarius of Optina, by Fr. Leonid Kavelin (Platina, CA: St. Herman of Alaska Brotherhood Press, 1995), pp. 316-319.






An Excerpt from On Those who Think that They are Made Righteous by Works: Two Hundred and Twenty-Six Texts
by St. Mark the Ascetic
(5th Century)

1. In the texts which follow, the beliefs of those in error will be refuted by those whose faith is well founded and who know the truth.

2. Wishing to show that to fulfil every commandment is a duty, whereas sonship is a gift given to men through His own Blood, the Lord said: 'When you have done all that is commanded you, say: "We are useless servants: we have only done what was our duty"' (Luke 17:10). Thus the kingdom of heaven is not a reward for works, but a gift of grace prepared by the Master for his faithful servants.

3. A slave does not demand his freedom as a reward; but he gives satisfaction as one who is in debt, and he receives freedom as a gift.

4. 'Christ died on account of our sins in accordance with the Scriptures' (I Cor. 15:3); and to those who serve Him well He gives freedom. 'Well done, good and faithful servant,' He says, 'you have been faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many: enter into the joy of your Lord' (Matt. 25: 21).

5. He who relies on theoretical knowledge alone is not yet a faithful servant: a faithful servant is one who expresses his faith in things Christ through obedience to His commandments.

6. He who honours the Lord does what the Lord bids. When he sins or is disobedient, he patiently accepts what comes as something he deserves.

7. If you love true knowledge, devote yourself to the ascetic life; for mere theoretical, knowledge puffs a man up (cf. I Cor. 8:1).

. . .

11. Those who, because of the rigour of their own ascetic practice, despise the less zealous, think that they are made righteous by physical works. But we are even more foolish if we rely on theoretical knowledge and disparage the ignorant.

12. Even though knowledge is true, it is still not firmly established if unaccompanied by works. For everything is established by being put into practice.

13. Often our knowledge becomes darkened because we fail to put things into practice. For when we have totally neglected to practise something, our memory of it will gradually disappear. [For the preceding two instructions cf. James 1:22-24]

14. For this reason Scripture urges us to acquire the knowledge of God, so that through our works we may serve Him rightly.

15. When we fulfil the commandments in our outward actions, we receive from the Lord what is appropriate; but any real benefit we gain depends on our inward intention.

16. If we want to do something but cannot, then before God, who knows our hearts, it is as if we have done it. This is true whether the intended action is good or bad.

17. The intellect does many good and bad things without the body, whereas the body can do neither good nor evil without the intellect. This is because the law of freedom applies to what happens before we act.

18. Some without fulfilling the commandments think that they possess true faith. Others fulfil the commandments and then expect the Kingdom as a reward due to them. Both are mistaken.

19. A master is under no obligation to reward his slaves; on the other hand, those who do not serve him well are not given their freedom.

20. If 'Christ died on our account in accordance with the Scriptures' (Rom. 5:8; 1 Cor. I5: 3), and we do not 'live for ourselves', but 'for Him who died and rose' on our account (2 Cor. 5:15), it is clear that we are debtors to Christ to serve Him till our death. How then can we regard sonship as something which is our due?

21. Christ is Master by virtue of His own essence and Master by virtue of His incarnate life. For He creates man from nothing, and through His own Blood redeems him when dead in sin; and to those who believe in Him He has given His grace.

22. When Scripture says 'He will reward every man according to his works' (Matt. 16:27), do not imagine that works in themselves merit either hell or the kingdom. On the contrary, Christ rewards each man according to whether his works are done with faith or without faith in Himself; and He is not a dealer bound by contract, but God our Creator and Redeemer.

2 3. We who have received baptism offer good works, not by way of repayment, but to preserve the purity given to us.

24. Every good work which we perform through our own natural powers causes us to refrain from the corresponding sin; but without grace it cannot contribute to our sanctification.

From The Philokalia, vol. 1 (London: Faber & Faber, 1979), pp. 125-127."

Thank you very much, Nicene; I appreciate Hesychasm, and the views of the Eastern Orthodox church. I have experienced, recently, that FAITH affords me the Spirit of God... and, then, I am GREATLY EMPOWERED to "do works" which THE SPIRIT is working -- and THAT is "the righteousness of God in Christ": literally, God's righteousness, full of goodness... this is so precious! As for my "righteousness" -- that is, ANYTHING, deed or no-deed that is NOT by the POWER of the Spirit -- it is disgusting-as-menstrual-rags in God's eyes, and I should always seek to be filled with the Spirit, in order to work the works that THE SPIRIT is working... "I must work the works of Him Who sent Me..." hallelujah, oh how precious... amen! amen! amen!
 
You are asking too many questions. The respondents will start to back off from answering them because you are beginning to apply logic to your questions which is not helpful to one's faith. not true, logic is necessary it is called discernement

You only need to accept Jesus as your saviour in order to be absolved from the responsibility of your sins and gain the reward of everlasting life (assuming this is actually something that anyone would really want). also not true, you are absolved from the punishment but you still have the RESPONSIBLITY to follow Jesus and do the good works He has ordained, some of that normally involves righting wrongs and asking other people for forgiveness if possible.

So in essence, provided you are a sycophant to the idea, you can block out the responsibilty in your mind of all the bad things you have done. Making amends for your sins and misdemeanors, by repairing the damage or compensating your victims, is not necessary - such actions are only deemed the right thing to do in the human-administered world.

mmm you must have missed these verses when you were skimming the Bible...

Matthew 5:22-24

King James Version (KJV)


22But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
23Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
24Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.



Jesus says if you love Me you WILL Obey my commandments. Though obedience does NOT save, it is part of submitting to the will of JESUS in your life if you are saved. FOR Jesus is Salvation. Jesus is both LORD and Savior. He will not save those who have not repented and submitted to His lordship and who do not have the Holy SPirit to guide and convict and teach them.



anyone who teaches anything else (that repentance, submission and faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and His promises) is not teaching the gospel found in scripture.


are all men saved? why does Jesus talk about the goats and the sheep? the wheat and the tares?


why does Jesus speak these words in prayer?


John 17:9
I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
 
We started talking about this in Bible Discussion Room in Chat... but...

What, precisely, IS salvation?
What, precisely, is salvation NOT?
What is the proper RESPONSE/APPLICATION, in LIGHT of those TRUTHS?
I asked God to teach me, and He showed me a Cross...



Please share your understanding... if you do NOT understand the topic, do not post, please; if you are going to be MEAN, or get EMOTIONAL when someone asks a simple question based on Scripture, DO NOT BOTHER TO POST HERE, PLEASE! This is a cut-and-dry Scriptural discussion that has been started to FIND ANSWERS -- not to fling insults at one another.

I think there are two elements to salvation.

First, we all have sinned and need to be forgiven for our sin.

Second, we need to stop sinning. When we do, our problems disappear. If we don’t, our problems can become extremely serious.
 
We started talking about this in Bible Discussion Room in Chat... but...

What, precisely, IS salvation?
What, precisely, is salvation NOT?
What is the proper RESPONSE/APPLICATION, in LIGHT of those TRUTHS?
I asked God to teach me, and He showed me a Cross...



Please share your understanding... if you do NOT understand the topic, do not post, please; if you are going to be MEAN, or get EMOTIONAL when someone asks a simple question based on Scripture, DO NOT BOTHER TO POST HERE, PLEASE! This is a cut-and-dry Scriptural discussion that has been started to FIND ANSWERS -- not to fling insults at one another.
Look it up in Strong's concordance, which says that it means "a deliverance". Only those that God gave to his Son have been delivered from their sins, and not all mankind. Jesus was a sacrifice to God, for God's acceptance ( not man's acceptance ) for the redemption of the sins of those that his Father gave him ( John 6:37-40 ).(John 17:2 ) ( John 17:9 ) ( John 10:29 ). There is a promise of an eternal inheritance for those that Christ died for, but there are many deliverances (salvations), for those he died for, as they sojourn here on earth by their works in obeying God's commandments. ( Matt 7:14 [an abundant life on earth before God takes them to their eternal inheritance.].
 
We started talking about this in Bible Discussion Room in Chat... but...

What, precisely, IS salvation?
What, precisely, is salvation NOT?
What is the proper RESPONSE/APPLICATION, in LIGHT of those TRUTHS?
I asked God to teach me, and He showed me a Cross...



Please share your understanding... if you do NOT understand the topic, do not post, please; if you are going to be MEAN, or get EMOTIONAL when someone asks a simple question based on Scripture, DO NOT BOTHER TO POST HERE, PLEASE! This is a cut-and-dry Scriptural discussion that has been started to FIND ANSWERS -- not to fling insults at one another.
We have been saved from the penalty of our sin (Ephesians 2:5), we are being saved from continuing to be doers of sin (Philippians 2:12), and we will be saved from God's wrath on the day of the Lord (Romans 5:9-10).

Our salvation from sin would be incomplete if we were only saved from the penalty of our sin or from God's wrath while we continued to be doers of sin, so there is an aspect of our gift of salvation that we are experiencing in the present by repenting and redirecting our lives towards being a doer of the Law of God. The content of a gift can be the experience of doing something, such as giving someone the opportunity to experience driving a Ferrari, where the gift intrinsically requires them to do the work of driving it in order to have that experience, but where doing that work contributes nothing towards earning the opportunity to experience driving it. We can't earn our salvation even as there result of having perfect obedience to the Law of God because it was never given as a way of earning our salvation in the first place, but rather it was given in order to graciously teach what is intrinsically required in order to experience the gift of salvation.

In Luke 10:25-28, Jesus affirmed that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments, and something that we inherit is a gift, so he was speaking about what it intrinsically required in order to experience the gift of eternal life, not about the way to be good enough to earn it as the result.

In Titus 2:11-13, the content of our gift of salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so we are not required to have first done those works in obedience to the Law of God order to earn our salvation as the result and we are not require to do those works as the result of having first been saved, but rather God graciously teaching us to be a doer of those works is the aspect of our gift of salvation that we are experiencing in the present. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the way to believe in what Jesus accomplished through the cross is by becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Law of God (Acts 21:20).

In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith.
 
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Salvation is eternal life being with God.

Isa 59:1 Behold, the LORD'S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
Isa 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.

Our sins separate us from God.

So no person can have a relationship with God if their sins are not forgiven.

Which all people are sinners until saved.

Heb 9:18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
Heb 9:19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
Heb 9:20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
Heb 9:21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Only by the the shedding of blood can sins be forgiven.

In the Old Testament the Hebrews sins were covered by the blood of animals.

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

The High Priest would enter the Holy of Holies once a year to make atonement for the nation's sins, using a bull for himself and two goats for the people.

The blood of bulls and goats could only cover sins but not take them away.

Which there was a remembrance of sins once a year to sacrifice again for those sins.

Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

Joh 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

1Jn 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Only a sinless man can take away the sins of the world.

No man is sinless so God manifest Himself in flesh that shed innocent blood to wash away sins.

God reconciled the world unto Himself in the person of Jesus Christ God and man in harmony.

Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Tit 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

We must confess Christ as Savior and repent of our sins being sorry we did them.

And believe God raised Christ from the dead showing we can also raise from the dead to be with God like the man Christ Jesus.

And receive the Spirit which means allow the Spirit to lead us.

It is having the Holy Spirit that saves us for it gives us a spiritual relationship with God.

The blood washing our sins away allows us to have the Spirit.

The blood saves us because it allows us to have the Spirit.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Some people do not allow the Spirit to lead them so they do not have a relationship with God.
 
We started talking about this in Bible Discussion Room in Chat... but...

What, precisely, IS salvation?
What, precisely, is salvation NOT?
What is the proper RESPONSE/APPLICATION, in LIGHT of those TRUTHS?
I asked God to teach me, and He showed me a Cross...



Please share your understanding... if you do NOT understand the topic, do not post, please; if you are going to be MEAN, or get EMOTIONAL when someone asks a simple question based on Scripture, DO NOT BOTHER TO POST HERE, PLEASE! This is a cut-and-dry Scriptural discussion that has been started to FIND ANSWERS -- not to fling insults at one another.


Salvation is a life long process. The Father is bringing those He calls to Christ, into "perfection" and Christ is the example of that perfection. We will never be perfect until the Resurrection, when we are changed from flesh to spirit.

At the resurrection our human nature is replaced, we will rise in our spirit form with God's holy righteous Nature, sin will be impossible.