"Salvation": What Is It?

[AnandaHya]

neither do I believe in the gospel of sinless perfection in this corrupt human flesh but that we know only in part until Jesus returns and resurrects the dead and in a blink of an eye transmute the living into the perfect glorified bodies promised for eternity with Christ.

there is a difference between Backsliding and Apostasy. Once has the promise of an intercessor, the second the curse of eternal damnation.

Romans 8
26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

we are not clothed in OUR Righteousness but Christ's imputed righteousness. We are not washed clean through OUR works but through Jesus blood shed upon the cross for remission of our sins.

now ask yourself what does it mean to Sin WILLFULLY?

Hebrews 10
26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,”[e] says the Lord.[f] And again, “The LORD will judge His people.”[g] 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

is it not after being chastened by the Holy Spirit, one curses God and say sinfully "I will have it MY WAY, not YOURS God. I do not SIN but this is MY RIGHT"?

 

[dan1el]

,mmmmm.... should I respond? which would be more loving and polite: silence or speech? mmmm.......

well we will start off with gettting rid of your false perception of me.

I do not speak of a false salvation doctrine.

That is the difference between the TRUE Gospel of Christ and many other world religions such as Islam, Buddhism, Vedanta Hinduism, Shinto, etc. Grace through Christ versus WORKS of an individual to be "righteous" enough for "Heaven" or the theory of "karma" or called "justice"

No I believe in God's MERCY AND GRACE but neither do I speak of a lictenious or Unitarian doctrine where people are OSAS or "all men are saved" thought patterns.

NO what I believe in is the NARROW Road as taught by Jesus through the words of the Bible, understood by the Grace and teachings of the HOLY SPIRIT.

to those who have not heard of the name Jesus?

we have these verses for they are considered a "law unto themselves" following the laws of God and being justified by their hearts for they will have been taught by angels His laws.

Romans 2:14-16
New King James Version (NKJV)
14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

Who are they entrusted to? Angels it says so in the Bible

I don't work hard to please God. I just rejoice in His love and try really hard to share it with others. God is not pleased by my WORKS but by my FAITH in Him.

no I would not be upset if I was told I was unworthy of Heaven and was tossed in Hell for I know I deserve that judgement if it was not for God's Promise in JESUS imputed righteousness. There in lies my FAITH in JESUS Christ as my LORD and Savior and His promise of God's love and the Testimony of my spirit with unity of the HOly Spirit that tells me I am a child of God and can call our "Abba, Father"

why bow your knee? because you will not be given a choice. even the demons will bow and then be cast into Hell.

that is not the topic.

Salvation is not only belief that Jesus is the Son of God but only if HE is YOUR LORD and Savior. For even the demons proclaim the divinity of Jesus but they will still burn in Hell for all that.

Luke 4:41
And demons also came out of many, crying out and saying, “You are the Christ, the Son of God!” And He, rebuking them, did not allow them to speak, for they knew that He was the Christ.

lol rereading that i'm not sure if it makes any sense to anyone but me. lol

You are not discerning the True meaning of what Romans is saying: Paul was rebuking the JEWISH BELIEVERS for being so full of pride as to think they could "teach" the GENTILE BELIEVERS how to "be holy" out of the Law of Moses; whereas, the GENTILE BELIEVERS were already experiencing the NEW COVENANT [which is why he calls it "showing the work of the Law written on their hearts": these words must be LINKED to their Old Testament counter-parts, in order for the reader to UNDERSTAND that what is happening to the GENTILE BELIEVERS (the Law already being INSIDE their minds and hearts) is FULFILLMENT OF PROPHECY -- Jeremiah 31:31-34, especially 33, to be exact: it is reference to BELIEVERS; NOT ALL GENTILES, but GENTILE BELIEVERS].

NEVER is a Gentile said to have the Law written in them -- those words are EXACT WORDS describing the benefits of the NEW COVENANT; but, in another Scripture, it says, "no man is righteous, no man is good; no man seeks after God -- so I had to save them, Myself" (paraphrase), and "all your righteousness is as filthy rags [kotex]".
Moreover, it says that they have become SO CORRUPT that they are "past feeling". Never is an unbeliever said to have the Law written in their heart; this is a term referring ONLY to BELIEVING GENTILES.

The Law being written in someone's heart is ONLY for believers in Yeshua; no one else -- it is the New Covenant.
Look at the CONTEXT, Israel.

 

[Israel]

1How do you give Salvation when it is not yours to give?

2What proof is this, that you speak of concerning the perfect knowledge of truth?

3Faith in Jesus Christ and the resurrection IS your Salvation (the proof is in the pudding)

Selah

1. I didnt give it. I only witness to what's given to me.

2. 1 Corinthians 13:9-12

9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.


We are all children now. When that which is perfect is come (in death) that which is in part (partial understanding. If we can only partially see, then we are atleast partially blind) is done away with.

3. For the earnest expectation of every creature (man, woman, child, jew, gentile, christian, muslim, athiest, etc.) is the manifestation of the sons of God. Everyone has a measure of faith.

 

[AnandaHya]

Everyone has a measure of faith.

yes but what do they have faith in? God or idols of this world?

 

[Israel]

It BEGINS with faith in Yeshua as being the Messiah, Son of God; and obedience to His Gospel/Truth. The Galatians DISOBEYED those Truths, and were cut off from Christ and salvation for it: all who reject faith in Him as the One and ONLY way to be "acceptable"/"just" before God (in stead of WORKS of the Law of Moses, or ANY "good works") are NOT saved. They do NOT have the grace of God -- whereby a man is saved.

Muslims, for instance are NOT saved. Buddhists are NOT saved. Hindus are NOT saved. ALL men are NOT saved -- not ALL; the Lord said VERY FEW enter eternal life. Do you recognize and acknowledge that as authoritative, or not? All men are NOT saved. Most men are damned, and WILL be damned.

WOW! Im glad you're NOT the judge. If judgement is given to Yeshua, do you believe it?

Do you believe that the Father will give to Him anything He asks according to the will of God?

So when Yeshua told HIS Father to "FORGIVE THEM..... FOR THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO", do you believe that His Father answer HIS DYING WISH? Or is that NOT the will of God?

The bible said God lost not ONE. YOU say He lost many.

 

[Israel]

yes but what do they have faith in? God or idols of this world?

There is only one faith. You who seem mature in using the word should know that an idol is nothing in the world. Because one demonstrates his faith by an idol doesn't mean he lacks it. He is simply trying to objectify what he doesn't understand. His faith is weak. Nonetheless, he goes through the same trials we all go through.

 

[dan1el]

Israel,

There is no need for further discussion with you on this thread. Your responses are not welcome. Granted, you CAN keep responding, but you are divisive, and everything you believe is antithetical to sound Scriptural teaching.

I would like for you to stop posting, so that the discussion can get back on track. Thank you for your opinions.

 

[AnandaHya]

dan1el,

he sounds like a New Age Unitarian whose roots are based upon the syncretism of Vedanta Hinduism and some misapplied Bible passages established by cherry picking verses that fit but discarding others that do not line up with their "feelings"

Don't let him get under your skin.

the passive aggressive technique of "God loves EVERYONE" and you SHOULD LISTEN TO ME and AGREE or YOU are not loving and NOT following GOD, is annoy but even that fiery dart is quenched when you stand under the blood of Jesus and His Helmet of Salvation and breastplate of righteousness.


the New Age movement is wolf in sheep's clothing. Repackaged Hinduism which was repacked doctrines of demons after the gospel came into the world because child sacrifices was no longer smiled upon during the light of day. So now we have false sparks they chase after and how they preach that everyone has a "divine spark" or "god within them" or sometimes they even use the Sanskrit term "Atman"

they pervert the doctrine of the Holy Spirit to an impersonal force that allows them to BECOME little gods or manifested Sons of God.

here is a bit about what they "believe" sound like anyone you know?

"What do we mean when we say God? According to Vedanta, God is infinite existence, infinite consciousness, and infinite bliss. The term for this impersonal, transcendent reality is Brahman, the divine ground of being. Yet Vedanta also maintains that God can be personal as well, assuming human form in every age.

Most importantly, God dwells within our own hearts as the divine Self or Atman. The Atman is never born nor will it ever die. Neither stained by our failings nor affected by the fluctuations of the body or mind, the Atman is not subject to our grief or despair or disease or ignorance. Pure, perfect, free from limitations, the Atman, Vedanta declares, is one with Brahman. The greatest temple of God lies within the human heart.

Vedanta further asserts that the goal of human life is to realize and manifest our divinity. Not only is this possible, it is inevitable. Our real nature is divine; God-realization is our birthright. Sooner or later, we will all manifest our divinity—either in this or in future lives—for the greatest truth of our existence is our own divine nature.

Finally, Vedanta affirms that all religions teach the same basic truths about God, the world, and our relationship to one another. Thousands of years ago the Rig Veda declared: "Truth is one, sages call it by various names." The world's religions offer varying approaches to God, each one true and valid, each religion offering the world a unique and irreplaceable path to God-realization. The conflicting messages we find among religions are due more to doctrine and dogma than to the reality of spiritual experience. While dissimilarities exist in the external observances of the world religions, the internals bear remarkable similarities."

Vedanta Society of Southern California

it makes God an impersonal force and Jesus just another incarnation among a pantheon of other deities and idols.

You should note Dan1el that THEIR "god" is not the GOD of the Bible and you should learn to recognize what people mean when they say "god".

reminds you of the need for the Eve story about desiring to "be like God"? Or how Lucifer sought to BE GOD MOST HIGH?

 

[AnandaHya]

There is only one faith. You who seem mature in using the word should know that an idol is nothing in the world. Because one demonstrates his faith by an idol doesn't mean he lacks it. He is simply trying to objectify what he doesn't understand. His faith is weak. Nonetheless, he goes through the same trials we all go through.

you do not speak for me so the use of "we" is inappropiate.

I know exactly who those who place their faith in IDOLS worship and you are half right it is not of this world, but it is NOT Jesus Christ My Lord and Savior, either.

I never said they lacked faith just that is misplaced.

"objectify what he doesn't understand"? you don't objectify GOD it is FORBIDDEN.

His faith is in illusions and lies, of course it is weak.

trials? God makes it rain on the just and the unjust.

There is ONLY ONE TRUE Faith, most of this world do not know it but are still trapped in chains of lies and deception and sin.

Only JESUS can free them for by HIS name is ANYONE saved.

We just stand as witnesses reflecting His light.

Learning to use the Sword of Spirit, which is the Word of God.

1 Corinthians 8
4 Therefore concerning the eating of things offered to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no other God but one. 5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords), 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
7 However, there is not in everyone that knowledge; for some, with consciousness of the idol, until now eat it as a thing offered to an idol; and their conscience, being weak, is defiled.

so WHY are the weak of faith defiled? for they STOP worshiping GOD and worship the DEMONIC forces behind the idol. However those Strong in the Faith know that eating the food does NOT mean you worship them but the Weak in Faith can not eat without worldly Fear.

anyway you guys have probably already moved on to the next topic lol while i have been typing and praying about this.

 

[AnandaHya]

WOW! Im glad you're NOT the judge. If judgement is given to Yeshua, do you believe it? yes

Do you believe that the Father will give to Him anything He asks according to the will of God? yes

So when Yeshua told HIS Father to "FORGIVE THEM..... FOR THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO", do you believe that His Father answer HIS DYING WISH? Or is that NOT the will of God? yes but you do not know the "them" He is referring to.

The bible said God lost not ONE. YOU say He lost many.

you misquote the BIble. perhaps you should reread the verses?

John 17
9 “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. 10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them. 11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. 12 While I was with them in the world,[c] I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept;[d] and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. 13 But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves. 14 I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 15 I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. 18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.

20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will[e] believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.



also these would be good to review:

1 John 2
18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the[c] Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things.[d] 21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

 

[dan1el]

dan1el,

he sounds like a New Age Unitarian whose roots are based upon the syncretism of Vedanta Hinduism and some misapplied Bible passages established by cherry picking verses that fit but discarding others that do not line up with their "feelings"

Don't let him get under your skin.

the passive aggressive technique of "God loves EVERYONE" and you SHOULD LISTEN TO ME and AGREE or YOU are not loving and NOT following GOD, is annoy but even that fiery dart is quenched when you stand under the blood of Jesus and His Helmet of Salvation and breastplate of righteousness.


the New Age movement is wolf in sheep's clothing. Repackaged Hinduism which was repacked doctrines of demons after the gospel came into the world because child sacrifices was no longer smiled upon during the light of day. So now we have false sparks they chase after and how they preach that everyone has a "divine spark" or "god within them" or sometimes they even use the Sanskrit term "Atman"

they pervert the doctrine of the Holy Spirit to an impersonal force that allows them to BECOME little gods or manifested Sons of God.

here is a bit about what they "believe" sound like anyone you know?

"What do we mean when we say God? According to Vedanta, God is infinite existence, infinite consciousness, and infinite bliss. The term for this impersonal, transcendent reality is Brahman, the divine ground of being. Yet Vedanta also maintains that God can be personal as well, assuming human form in every age.

Most importantly, God dwells within our own hearts as the divine Self or Atman. The Atman is never born nor will it ever die. Neither stained by our failings nor affected by the fluctuations of the body or mind, the Atman is not subject to our grief or despair or disease or ignorance. Pure, perfect, free from limitations, the Atman, Vedanta declares, is one with Brahman. The greatest temple of God lies within the human heart.

Vedanta further asserts that the goal of human life is to realize and manifest our divinity. Not only is this possible, it is inevitable. Our real nature is divine; God-realization is our birthright. Sooner or later, we will all manifest our divinity—either in this or in future lives—for the greatest truth of our existence is our own divine nature.

Finally, Vedanta affirms that all religions teach the same basic truths about God, the world, and our relationship to one another. Thousands of years ago the Rig Veda declared: "Truth is one, sages call it by various names." The world's religions offer varying approaches to God, each one true and valid, each religion offering the world a unique and irreplaceable path to God-realization. The conflicting messages we find among religions are due more to doctrine and dogma than to the reality of spiritual experience. While dissimilarities exist in the external observances of the world religions, the internals bear remarkable similarities."

Vedanta Society of Southern California

it makes God an impersonal force and Jesus just another incarnation among a pantheon of other deities and idols.

You should note Dan1el that THEIR "god" is not the GOD of the Bible and you should learn to recognize what people mean when they say "god".

reminds you of the need for the Eve story about desiring to "be like God"? Or how Lucifer sought to BE GOD MOST HIGH?

I've already spoken with him before this conversation; I already know him, and that he is a heretic -- and an unteachable heretic. He is lost, and unwilling to listen to the Truth, in order to be saved. I have no interest in speaking with him, and wish for him to not post here, starting quarrels based on twisting Scriptures.

 

[dan1el]

At best, he ONCE knew Jesus, and is backsliding.

 

[AnandaHya]

At best, he ONCE knew Jesus, and is backsliding.

he could just have false doctrine...i went to a church in college full of similar minded people as he.

a lot i love but still think they are misguided. sometimes all we can do is pray for them for our silent prayers hold more power then thousands of spoken words for they have the power to be heard and answered by God.

 

[Fencepost]

Jesus says to peter "You of little faith, why did you doubt?" Matthew 14:31 HCSB (holman christian standard bible)

 

[WeStand]

Do the people who lose their salvation lose it because they stop believing? Is it because they sin? Is sin VIA unbelief? Is sinning and unbelief two sides of the same coin?

Hi Daniel; this is the understanding that i have received from my studies and prayers, hope it helps

Its all about deception: The very first warning from Christ, when He arose was; Do NOT BE DECEIVED! He was referring to His Spiritual Body; He didn't say anything about being careful to not get shot, stabbed, or blown away or whatever.

But Christ did teach about calamities; and he asked if the people that died in these calamities were any greater sinners than those he was talking to?

Hr stated, lest you FIRST repent, Ye shall ALL likewise die.

I don't mean to insult you or anybody reguarding the Bible; However it is just a Translation of The Word, and in the original language, there is both more clarity and deeper understanding. Mabey you already know this, i don't know.

The word repent in the Hebrew, has a 40% emphisis on being truly sorry for all the sins that you had committed in ignorance: 60% of the emphisis is to exercise your mind in The Word of God, which to me is like learning to walk, as it really does come alive in you, with understanding. Then you begin to jump, skip and run with it

So what is the sin that both parties are guilty of? considering that the ones that were with Christ must have known him, as they were right their with him.

Christ is also right here with us now, IF you beleive in the basics of his teachings, But what is it exactly that he is teaching? The New Way to contact The Father, and to understand what The Fathers issue is.

I think you had the vision of the cross, as its meaning appears to be only half alive, and is being taught to people shamefully, as if your supposed to come to the Father in guilt when you should have already washed youself in the Lords Prayer before ever even dream of approaching Him in the Holy of Holies, the only place to contact The Father.

Christ is available at any moment we wish to have help in understanding The Word, or if in danger, to call upon, 24/7/365

Jacob i loved, Essau i hated; This is all about acknowledging the Heritage of our spirits, minds, conciosness's etc...Not the flesh, though in the OT times, it did matter, as Judah and Levi were under strict ordinences and statutes of the law until the birth of Messiah, though the Commandments of the Law, will NEVER change.

Jacob i loved because he willing brought the best of his offerings, and prayed to The Father earnestly beleing that He, The Father was hearing him, and always went to The Father in prayer concerning his tribulations.

Essua i hated because he brought the least of his blessings not beleiving that he would be held accountable, offered and prayed in insincerity, not even beleiving that he was being heard; as when he had his tribulations, he always went to his father Issiac, as Issiac was a wealthy man. Essua was a man of the world who beleived, when you die, thats it.

Sorry its taking so long to get to the point; There are sins of the flesh yes; but there is an even greater sin than flesh sins; and its in denying the Heritage of our minds, spirits or whatever people want to call that person that they are inside the flesh (not physical)

Though we will all remain in the sins of the flesh, and yes the less we do of them, the better, but everyone will slip and slide now and then; But the inner man can be made perfect and stay that way, if they know that it is not so much the sins that goes into ones mouth that defiles us so much as it is the sin that comes out of our mouths.

Sticks and stones will break my bones; But ill words ultimately kill spirits and start wars.

Gods Truth is 0% predjudism as the only thing we truly have in common is our inner-man, no matter how messed up one may be about where it originated from.

So finally to the point of your question; How do i know if i'm saved, and how do you lose that opportunity?

You are saved IF, you were to passover prior to the arrival of instead-of-christ; and your beleif in God was in and through Christ, as well as exercised, as in good deeds and kind and uplifting words for others. Of course time in prayer as well.

It is written that ALL shall die, However, IF you are here at the time that Dr. Death himself, satan, instead-of-christ, is cast down to the earth; well you should know exactly what to do, or you could temporarly lose that opportunity at salvation, if you were to participate in The Great Apostacy when satan exhalts himself in front of the whole world, pretendtng to be God; and in ALL his splendid glory as well

It is written; that every caring person shall be saved; that the Father will not lose even one of his sheep;However, studied in context, this is reffering to the END of the Lords Day of reckoning.

It is also written; that most are not going to make it, until the END of the Lords Day, only the firstfruits of the vine shall reign with Christ at the Begining of that day or millenium.

So as i do expect expect to be here for this event; as there has never been a generation like this one; and the generation of the fig-tree began in 1948, the year the Jews re-claimed the land of Judeah that they had lost in 70 AD, and called it Israel???

So if i am here for this event, this is what i understand we are to do; which is why i or anybody could actually lose their opprotunity at salvation as a firstfruit.

Theres only 2 choices in the hour of temptation: turn left or turn right, and we were advised to always fish out of the right side of the boat

So to turn left; is to head off to the Great apostacy, where the greater miricales are going to be performed agaist the 2 great witness's by none other than Bonehead himself, satan, death, instead-of-christ. Why do you think the Bible states that the father will deliver the son to death, the mother the daughter etc... this is not a physical death were talking about here, its a spiritual death, in not recognizing satan and getting caught worshiping him burned in the fire ( the red assed embarasment YOU WILL FEEL, when the real Christ shows up to end the devils party, PRONTO.

To turn right; is to resist this temptation, and stay in the feild doing The Fathers Will; gathering together to head off to the wilderness,, just as both Moses and Christ gave of the examples to follow; to receive the Greater healings that will also take place, as Christ promised both these events would take place, prior to his return.

So; though i hope and pray everyday that i do the right thing, i don't think i'll know for sure, until i do it, as to wether i will stand or fall.

May God help all of us, in and through the beleif and knowledge of Christ, Thats That (amen)

Forever in Christ

 

[dan1el]

Hi Daniel; this is the understanding that i have received from my studies and prayers, hope it helps

Its all about deception: The very first warning from Christ, when He arose was; Do NOT BE DECEIVED! He was referring to His Spiritual Body; He didn't say anything about being careful to not get shot, stabbed, or blown away or whatever.

But Christ did teach about calamities; and he asked if the people that died in these calamities were any greater sinners than those he was talking to?

Hr stated, lest you FIRST repent, Ye shall ALL likewise die.

I don't mean to insult you or anybody reguarding the Bible; However it is just a Translation of The Word, and in the original language, there is both more clarity and deeper understanding. Mabey you already know this, i don't know.

The word repent in the Hebrew, has a 40% emphisis on being truly sorry for all the sins that you had committed in ignorance: 60% of the emphisis is to exercise your mind in The Word of God, which to me is like learning to walk, as it really does come alive in you, with understanding. Then you begin to jump, skip and run with it

So what is the sin that both parties are guilty of? considering that the ones that were with Christ must have known him, as they were right their with him.

Christ is also right here with us now, IF you beleive in the basics of his teachings, But what is it exactly that he is teaching? The New Way to contact The Father, and to understand what The Fathers issue is.

I think you had the vision of the cross, as its meaning appears to be only half alive, and is being taught to people shamefully, as if your supposed to come to the Father in guilt when you should have already washed youself in the Lords Prayer before ever even dream of approaching Him in the Holy of Holies, the only place to contact The Father.

Christ is available at any moment we wish to have help in understanding The Word, or if in danger, to call upon, 24/7/365

Jacob i loved, Essau i hated; This is all about acknowledging the Heritage of our spirits, minds, conciosness's etc...Not the flesh, though in the OT times, it did matter, as Judah and Levi were under strict ordinences and statutes of the law until the birth of Messiah, though the Commandments of the Law, will NEVER change.

Jacob i loved because he willing brought the best of his offerings, and prayed to The Father earnestly beleing that He, The Father was hearing him, and always went to The Father in prayer concerning his tribulations.

Essua i hated because he brought the least of his blessings not beleiving that he would be held accountable, offered and prayed in insincerity, not even beleiving that he was being heard; as when he had his tribulations, he always went to his father Issiac, as Issiac was a wealthy man. Essua was a man of the world who beleived, when you die, thats it.

Sorry its taking so long to get to the point; There are sins of the flesh yes; but there is an even greater sin than flesh sins; and its in denying the Heritage of our minds, spirits or whatever people want to call that person that they are inside the flesh (not physical)

Though we will all remain in the sins of the flesh, and yes the less we do of them, the better, but everyone will slip and slide now and then; But the inner man can be made perfect and stay that way, if they know that it is not so much the sins that goes into ones mouth that defiles us so much as it is the sin that comes out of our mouths.

Sticks and stones will break my bones; But ill words ultimately kill spirits and start wars.

Gods Truth is 0% predjudism as the only thing we truly have in common is our inner-man, no matter how messed up one may be about where it originated from.

So finally to the point of your question; How do i know if i'm saved, and how do you lose that opportunity?

You are saved IF, you were to passover prior to the arrival of instead-of-christ; and your beleif in God was in and through Christ, as well as exercised, as in good deeds and kind and uplifting words for others. Of course time in prayer as well.

It is written that ALL shall die, However, IF you are here at the time that Dr. Death himself, satan, instead-of-christ, is cast down to the earth; well you should know exactly what to do, or you could temporarly lose that opportunity at salvation, if you were to participate in The Great Apostacy when satan exhalts himself in front of the whole world, pretendtng to be God; and in ALL his splendid glory as well

It is written; that every caring person shall be saved; that the Father will not lose even one of his sheep;However, studied in context, this is reffering to the END of the Lords Day of reckoning.

It is also written; that most are not going to make it, until the END of the Lords Day, only the firstfruits of the vine shall reign with Christ at the Begining of that day or millenium.

So as i do expect expect to be here for this event; as there has never been a generation like this one; and the generation of the fig-tree began in 1948, the year the Jews re-claimed the land of Judeah that they had lost in 70 AD, and called it Israel???

So if i am here for this event, this is what i understand we are to do; which is why i or anybody could actually lose their opprotunity at salvation as a firstfruit.

Theres only 2 choices in the hour of temptation: turn left or turn right, and we were advised to always fish out of the right side of the boat

So to turn left; is to head off to the Great apostacy, where the greater miricales are going to be performed agaist the 2 great witness's by none other than Bonehead himself, satan, death, instead-of-christ. Why do you think the Bible states that the father will deliver the son to death, the mother the daughter etc... this is not a physical death were talking about here, its a spiritual death, in not recognizing satan and getting caught worshiping him burned in the fire ( the red assed embarasment YOU WILL FEEL, when the real Christ shows up to end the devils party, PRONTO.

To turn right; is to resist this temptation, and stay in the feild doing The Fathers Will; gathering together to head off to the wilderness,, just as both Moses and Christ gave of the examples to follow; to receive the Greater healings that will also take place, as Christ promised both these events would take place, prior to his return.

So; though i hope and pray everyday that i do the right thing, i don't think i'll know for sure, until i do it, as to wether i will stand or fall.

May God help all of us, in and through the beleif and knowledge of Christ, Thats That (amen)

Forever in Christ

O.K.; I didn't say how can I be saved NOW -- I asked, "if salvation NOW does not GARAUNTEE salvation WHEN EVERYTHING IS SAID AND DONE, then, WHAT must be done, or ADDED to faith in Christ that will make my outcome different than those who believe in Him, and yet still go to hell?"

 

[WeStand]

O.K.; I didn't say how can I be saved NOW -- I asked, "if salvation NOW does not GARAUNTEE salvation WHEN EVERYTHING IS SAID AND DONE, then, WHAT must be done, or ADDED to faith in Christ that will make my outcome different than those who believe in Him, and yet still go to hell?"

To know not to be sucked in, during the Great apostacy, that instead-of-christ will be performing, He comes in peacefully and prosperly; stopping WW3 in its tracks, playing the big hero, and paying off everybodies bills, How many people do you think that will suck in???

I know that with just the religous understanding of which i've been through at least 1/2 dozen christian religions, would not have stopped me from turning left, and getting sucked in. lest God willed it himself otherwise, but if so, i'm sure unaware of it.

Forever in Christ

 

[dan1el]

To know not to be sucked in, during the Great apostacy, that instead-of-christ will be performing, He comes in peacefully and prosperly; stopping WW3 in its tracks, playing the big hero, and paying off everybodies bills, How many people do you think that will suck in???

I know that with just the religous understanding of which i've been through at least 1/2 dozen christian religions, would not have stopped me from turning left, and getting sucked in. lest God willed it himself otherwise, but if so, i'm sure unaware of it.

Forever in Christ

I don't think that this addresss the question, since Christians in your scenario wouldn't been eligible for falling away until they are in the so-called ''Great Tribulation";whereas, Christians have been professing Him with their mouths, but with their works denying Him" since the beginning of the church.

I'm saying that OBVIOUSLY simply calling on Him is NOT salvation, alone; there are many who call on Him, but still are destroyed.
Did you read the first posts? You'd probably do best to do that.

 

[sloppy3]

Do the people who lose their salvation lose it because they stop believing? Is it because they sin? Is sin VIA unbelief? Is sinning and unbelief two sides of the same coin?

You are asking too many questions. The respondents will start to back off from answering them because you are beginning to apply logic to your questions which is not helpful to one's faith.

You only need to accept Jesus as your saviour in order to be absolved from the responsibility of your sins and gain the reward of everlasting life (assuming this is actually something that anyone would really want).

So in essence, provided you are a sycophant to the idea, you can block out the responsibilty in your mind of all the bad things you have done. Making amends for your sins and misdemeanors, by repairing the damage or compensating your victims, is not necessary - such actions are only deemed the right thing to do in the human-administered world.

 

[WeStand]

I don't think that this addresss the question, since Christians in your scenario wouldn't been eligible for falling away until they are in the so-called ''Great Tribulation";whereas, Christians have been professing Him with their mouths, but with their works denying Him" since the beginning of the church.

I'm saying that OBVIOUSLY simply calling on Him is NOT salvation, alone; there are many who call on Him, but still are destroyed.
Did you read the first posts? You'd probably do best to do that.

Well i at least hope it adreesed some of it. just trying to help.

Lets try something else; falling away prior to this event could be for a couple of reasons; possibly learning of the truth, and then still running around casting stones at people, as in, you shouldn't do this or do that ect... rather than Just encourage people into The Word, as its The Word itself that does the correcting, not us.

Or it could be the fact that since and before the time of Christ; they have not ceased to attach monetary value to this (its never been for sale).

To use your own mouth, to request aide from the people to support the work of God, well surely this has got to be the height of lack of trust in the Father, as He said, IF you are doing My work, I will provide all you need.

If you have that type of blessing to give, just give it, and don't go bragging about it, or doing it openly, to show off to the people.

Or it could be that a person has ceased in daily prayer.

Or it could be as i mentioned in the above post; Not understanding what exactly The Fathers issues are, and why He is so preturbed, Because if you don't understand this, well you would still be in need of teaching and that would be very sad, as we are all litterally living through the evidence.But, there is still The Lords Day, and if they don't get it now, they will surely get it then.

Or it could be for, as i stated above also; not recognizing the parents of our minds, Gods Love & Wisdom. The Essau syndrome.

Anyway, hope this helps clear it up, if not, i'm sure willing to keep trying, if you are.

The other thing i might add is; i noticed that you mentioned about going to hell from my studies, i understand that the moment that Christ returns, both the shadows of hell that were in, and the real hell, thats run by satan, will both cease to exsist, as to me The Lords Day of reckoning, is FAR scarier than anything satan could do to me, as it says, though you would wish for the mountains to fall on you, (litterally commit suicide) because of the unquenchable fire (embarrassment) it would Not be possible, as the only one who can kill a soul and spiritual body, is the one that gave it in the first place.

And this is certainly one of The Fathers issues; The fact that The Holy One of Israel, Our Father, will actually have to repent himself,(something He's never done) after He takes the action required to restore morenatural order, The Lake of FIRE FIRE! and VERY

Could you really picture a heaven, where people are being tortured forever? Not the Loving Father i know, thats just sick ____!

Forever in Christ