Salvation is a Free Gift.

[Pilgrimshope]

^
This here makes sense because verse 29 begins with "Whom He Foreknew" but does not say before the foundation of the world like He does when speaking about Jesus.

And it's also a fact that the Old Testament Saints would need to be conformed to Jesus like we are.

And it's all because how Paul ""wrote this"" ((aorist indicative, completed action)).

Think of the ohrase "whom he foreknew "

‭Acts 2:23 KJV‬
[23] him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

‭1 Peter 1:19-21 KJV‬
[19] but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: [20] who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, [21] who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

Maybe it's talking about Gods foreknowledge

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Those who love God through Christ


‭John 14:15, 20-21, 23-24 KJV‬
[15] If ye love me, keep my commandments.
[20] At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. [21] He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
[23] Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. [24] He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.


It's hard to hear but

‭Hebrews 5:9 KJV‬
[9] and being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Amen!

The Foreknew is what threw me and Peter shows us Jesus is the only one who God Foreknew to fulfill salvation.

We are close to Texas and Oklahoma which have a multitude of Baptist/Theological Biblical Universities and I have access to look at verse by verse compilations. So I thought to myself, I made a mistake here, so how is this verse being taught to "future Preachers/Teachers" in the Biblical Universities? And I looked it up.

I don't see any reason to disagree since it's their job to break the Greek down to verb expression and action, nouns, usage, past, future, tense.

I believe their explanation is spot on. They would know since it's what they only do every day until they die.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

^
This here makes sense because verse 29 begins with "Whom He Foreknew" but does not say before the foundation of the world like He does when speaking about Jesus.

And it's also a fact that the Old Testament Saints would need to be conformed to Jesus like we are.

And it's all because how Paul ""wrote this"" ((aorist indicative, completed action)).

Amen!

The Foreknew is what threw me and Peter shows us Jesus is the only one who God Foreknew to fulfill salvation.

We are close to Texas and Oklahoma which have a multitude of Baptist/Theological Biblical Universities and I have access to look at verse by verse compilations. So I thought to myself, I made a mistake here, so how is this verse being taught to "future Preachers/Teachers" in the Biblical Universities? And I looked it up.

I don't see any reason to disagree since it's their job to break the Greek down to verb expression and action, nouns, usage, past, future, tense.

I believe their explanation is spot on. They would know since it's what they only do every day until they die.

Well I believe Jesus is God and foreknew he would come later in the form of the son on earth and it's about what God knew beforehand . Paul is t teaching us to try to eliminate doctrine from that but he's encouraging us no matter what comes as we walk with Jesus we can depend on his ability to take care of he hings we can't and nit throw us away for failure bt love us to life instead


He's got a plan he always has had one but will man believe him ?

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Well I believe Jesus is God and foreknew he would come later in the form of the son on earth and it's about what God knew beforehand . Paul is t teaching us to try to eliminate doctrine from that but he's encouraging us no matter what comes as we walk with Jesus we can depend on his ability to take care of he hings we can't and nit throw us away for failure bt love us to life instead


He's got a plan he always has had one but will man believe him ?

Amen and Agreed 100% Brother

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Amen!

The Foreknew is what threw me and Peter shows us Jesus is the only one who God Foreknew to fulfill salvation.

We are close to Texas and Oklahoma which have a multitude of Baptist/Theological Biblical Universities and I have access to look at verse by verse compilations. So I thought to myself, I made a mistake here, so how is this verse being taught to "future Preachers/Teachers" in the Biblical Universities? And I looked it up.

I don't see any reason to disagree since it's their job to break the Greek down to verb expression and action, nouns, usage, past, future, tense.

I believe their explanation is spot on. They would know since it's what they only do every day until they die.

Yes you seem to have some good grasp of languages are you Hebrew at all ?

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Yes you seem to have some good grasp of languages are you Hebrew at all ?

I understand the Hebrew being a Jew and taught in Mishnah the Torah and Tanakh.
But the Greek I am always looking to Theologians for help.
I use to use Scholars but so many today claim to be atheist and agnostic and I would rather be ignorant than go by their demonic reasoning.
But Theologians are Believers and followers of God.
Them I trust.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I understand the Hebrew being a Jew and taught in Mishnah the Torah and Tanakh.
But the Greek I am always looking to Theologians for help.
I use to use Scholars but so many today claim to be atheist and agnostic and I would rather be ignorant than go by their demonic reasoning.
But Theologians are Believers and followers of God.
Them I trust.

Shalom . Brother .

Do you have a heart for preaching the gospel to the Jews ? I'm just curious

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Shalom . Brother .

Do you have a heart for preaching the gospel to the Jews ? I'm just curious

Shalom Brother,

I have the Church my Grandfather started and my Dad pastored in. I have associate Pastors who rotate on many Sundays and Tuesday and Thursdays. I actually evangelize more than anything else. I was in Kentucky for the Eclipse, Indiana for a couple weeks, in Kansas for a week and today was nice to be back home. Was a busy day and my first post I think was around 8 pm. I preached and then we had a catered Mother's Day Meal for all of the Mothers and families of the Church. I logged on and saw I had 15 alerts and thought I would quickly answer them but ended up in the Romans 8:29-30 discussion. Oh well. I learned from it so I am happy and will preach what I learned whenever we discuss Romans 8 again.


Just looked my first post: Yesterday at 8:10 PM

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Do you have a heart for preaching the gospel to the Jews ? I'm just curious

To answer your question, They are most difficult to talk to. Muslims are easier to discuss about Yeshua than with the Yehudi.

 

[PaulThomson]

^
This here makes sense because verse 29 begins with "Whom He Foreknew" but does not say before the foundation of the world like He does when speaking about Jesus.

And it's also a fact that the Old Testament Saints would need to be conformed to Jesus like we are.

And it's all because how Paul ""wrote this"" ((aorist indicative, completed action)).

The aorist is not strictly a tense in Koine Greek. The aorist is a pointillist aspect. The aorist indicative communicates that the action is actually happening at some point in time, but it does not in itself indicate when (past, present or future) or duration (continuous, repetitive or momentary). Context must be used to determine when the action could be happening and its duration.

Rpm. 8:28. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29. For whom (the church) he foreknows at some point [corporately and conceptually before creation] (aorist active indicative),
he also predestinates at some point [corporately and conceptually before creation] (aorist active indicative)
to be conformed to the image of his Son,
that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30. Moreover whom (the church) he predestinates at some point [perhaps corporately and conceptually before creation; or perhaps individually at conversion] (aorist active indicative)
them (the church) he also calls at some point [calls through the gospel to be saints, i.e. to be conformed to His image] (aorist active indicative):

and whom (the church) he calls at some point [calls through hearing the gospel to be saints] (aorist active indicative)
them (the church) he also justifies at some point [at regeneration by putting faith in Christ, and through continuing faith in Christ until resurrection] (aorist active indicative):

and whom (the church) he justifies at some point [at regeneration by faith in Christ, and through continuing faith in Christ until resurrection] (aorist active indicative),
them (the church) he also glorifies at some point [as we begin to walk by the Spirit, we are changed from glory to glory, until our glory is completed at our resurrection] aorist active indicative).

31. What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us (the church), who can be against us (the church)?

 

[brightfame52]

Every BIBLICAL example of preaching the Gospel and HEARING everyone has understood it.

But some let it lead to Faith and some reject it.

You do not reject something UNLESS you understand it.

A spiritually dead person can hear the Gospel but he cant hear it with Spiritual discernment and understanding 2 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[Evmur]

Yeah israel was blinded but he selected a remnant in order that they would preach the gospel to the world beginning at jeruswlem ( great commission )

“And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; And seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: For this people's heart is waxed gross, And their ears are dull of hearing, And their eyes they have closed; Lest at any time they should see with their eyes, And hear with their ears, And should understand with their heart, And should be converted, and I should heal them. But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13:14-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.

…. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭11:1-2, 5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.

Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples. And I will wait upon the LORD, that hideth his face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for him. Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭8:14-18‬ ‭

“your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith the LORD, which have burned incense upon the mountains, and blasphemed me upon the hills: therefore will I measure their former work into their bosom. Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all. And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:7-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Praise the Lord

A stone of stumbling and the Jews did stumble.

Have they stumbled so as to fall? God forbid!

The purpose of the famous Remnant is greatly misunderstood imv

The purpose of the remnant is to keep alive the testimony until the time comes when God will send His Elijah to turn the whole nation back to Himself. This is what happened at Mt Carmel and subsequently through the ministry of Elisha and the reign of King Jehu.
To keep alive the covenant betwixt God and His chosen nation to whom He has made many promises ... some yet not fulfilled.

Even our covenant to which we have been graciously included is between God and Israel.

 

[Evmur]

Good morning, @Evmur

What deeds, in your opinion, are represented in the talents?

prudence which obviously did involve action for the one who was condemned was condemned for his indolence, but if he was not able to actively increase his talent he might have shown prudence by investing his talent.

Now I am not here equating their reward here for what we have, the free gift of salvation through faith.

This is the argument which has raged for millennia in the church and still rages today. These seeming inconsistencies must be cleared up. The bible does not contradict itself.

The reformed crowd [which God bless] duck and dive and weave around the problem like prize fighters and a gallant job they make of it. But their answers do not satisfy the soul.

The REASON the problem is there.....

The reason the problem is there is simple and complex, the fact is in the 4th century the church decided to do away with the MILLENNIUM ... oh just like that, cut that huge slice out of the gospel cake. We still have a delicious cake, it feeds our souls and delights our mouths but there is a huge slice missing.

We's preaching the Kingdom of God but we've taken away the Kingdom ... our religion has become spiritual or mystic only and does not affect the natural world or state. Our souls are saved but our bodies rot often in poverty. We are still ruled over by tyrants.

We are preaching pie in the sky in the sweet bye and bye. That will be wonderful.

When they took away the 1, 000 years reign of Christ on earth, a reign of peace and prosperity for all, [what a glorious message] they cut the Jews out to whom the promise belongs. They introduced the replacement theology, the church became Israel, spiritual Israel, mystic Israel.

THIS KINGDOM IS ACCORDING TO DEEDS.

I believe all can be saved, heaven will be packed, but only a few will reign with Christ ....

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Praise the Lord

A stone of stumbling and the Jews did stumble.

Have they stumbled so as to fall? God forbid!

The purpose of the famous Remnant is greatly misunderstood imv

The purpose of the remnant is to keep alive the testimony until the time comes when God will send His Elijah to turn the whole nation back to Himself. This is what happened at Mt Carmel and subsequently through the ministry of Elisha and the reign of King Jehu.
To keep alive the covenant betwixt God and His chosen nation to whom He has made many promises ... some yet not fulfilled.

Even our covenant to which we have been graciously included is between God and Israel.

Yeah he hasn't cast away anyone because they are Israelite but because they reject the messiah . But have you ever considered who Jesus said John the Baptist is brother ?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

To answer your question, They are most difficult to talk to. Muslims are easier to discuss about Yeshua than with the Yehudi.

Yes I was going to ask how your able to get through. I notice they always reject the ot scriptures that really speak to Jesus being messiah

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Shalom Brother,

I have the Church my Grandfather started and my Dad pastored in. I have associate Pastors who rotate on many Sundays and Tuesday and Thursdays. I actually evangelize more than anything else. I was in Kentucky for the Eclipse, Indiana for a couple weeks, in Kansas for a week and today was nice to be back home. Was a busy day and my first post I think was around 8 pm. I preached and then we had a catered Mother's Day Meal for all of the Mothers and families of the Church. I logged on and saw I had 15 alerts and thought I would quickly answer them but ended up in the Romans 8:29-30 discussion. Oh well. I learned from it so I am happy and will preach what I learned whenever we discuss Romans 8 again.


Just looked my first post: Yesterday at 8:10 PM

Perseverance wins the day

 

[notmyown]

This is interesting here.
From Theologians. I do not trust Scholars because many are atheist but Theologians are Bible Professors in Bible Colleges.


(Rom 8:29-30) Notice the conjunction, “for”’; it ties what is about to be said with what has just been said. We know what God has done for the Old Testament saints, those that He “already knew, He predestined, (aorist indicative, completed action) to be conformed to the image or likeness of His Son. They died long before Jesus was even born but they are still a part of the promises of God! God planned from the beginning to bring their salvation to completion in Christ Jesus. Moreover, those He predestined (aorist indicative, completed action) He justified (aorist indicative, completed action) and those He justified He glorified (aorist indicative, completed action). If Paul had any intended notion that he was speaking to the Roman Christians he would have used the same tense he used previously in verse 16, that being the aorist passive subjective. He did not do so because he was speaking here of the Old Testament saints who had already died but God had provided hope for.


Theologians claim Paul in Romans 8:29-30 are speaking about the Old Testament Saints who God FOREKNEW and PREDESTINED to be conformed to be like Christ.

plenty of theologians claim all kinds of stuff.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

plenty of theologians claim all kinds of stuff.

These Theologians range from Reformed to non Reformed (using the terminology here).

The one thing we do know for a fact on these forums, there ""ARE NO"" Greek Theologians in the New Testament just a bunch of people who think we got a clue.

With that in mind, I trust the Theologian even over my own New Testament understanding and yours (no offense taken I pray).

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

A spiritually dead person can hear the Gospel but he cant hear it with Spiritual discernment and understanding 2 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Every BIBLICAL example of preaching the Gospel and HEARING everyone has understood it.

But some let it lead to Faith and some reject it.

You do not reject something UNLESS you understand it.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Yes I was going to ask how your able to get through. I notice they always reject the ot scriptures that really speak to Jesus being messiah

Yes, that is the same for me when dealing with them and they also refer back to the Talmud judgement mentioned.