So are the schemes of Progressive Christianity. Old wolf in new sheep's clothing
Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation
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But Bible not contradict each other
Jesus never lie, He will judge exactly what He say in the Bible
You can read some verse about how He judge but will not contradict each other
Yes but taking one passage out of context is not rightly dividing God's Word.
Am I taking out of context?
What is the context on Matt 25
The last judgement isn't it?
Do you think Matt 25 contradict john3:16?
If so, Tell me why
I think we never think that believe in Jesus if we do it honestly will never change our personality
We forget Jesus in us will produce fruit of agape love
Than we say not by work, yes it is not by work, but we forget it bear the good work
We forget Jesus in us will produce fruit of agape love
Than we say not by work, yes it is not by work, but we forget it bear the good work
Let me remind it again, Jesus never lie
John 3:16 not contradict Matt 25:36-41
A lot of Both sheep and goat surprise
Sheep think they never doing agape love, yes they never
Jesus in them do they bear it
John 3:16 not contradict Matt 25:36-41
A lot of Both sheep and goat surprise
Sheep think they never doing agape love, yes they never
Jesus in them do they bear it
It’s not the last judgment, it’s the judgment of the nations, believers are not judged. You need to take the bible as a whole. Believers have been crucified with Christ, their sins were judged at Calvary in Christ and are now blessed in heavenly places.
John 5:24 KJV
[24] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Ephesians 1:3 KJV
[3] Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Galatians 2:20 KJV
[20] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
You taking Matt 25 out of contact
The Bible as a whole say Jesus is the only way
It mean only believer inherit the kingdom or heaven
That mean the sheep in Matt 25 is believer
Believer will not be punish
They are on the court but win because Jesus save them also mean save from selfishness
Do you believe non believer able to produce agape love as Jesus say in Matt 25.?
Feed Jesus when He was hungry
Only believer bear it because Jesus in them do and believer only bear
It imply the sheep in Matt 25 is non believer
How you believe non believer go to eternal life
That is out of contact
And you think this verse contradict Matt 25
Read that verse again
Christ live the in me
What happen if Christ live in you
He produce agape love, helping the needy and you bear it
So that verse not contradict Matt 25
Why are Matthew's Gospel and the letter from James, so popular amongst the works based churches.
I could not count the number of times I have seen quotations from Matthew's Gospel.
I also see Matthew's Gospel quoted in eschatology threads often, rarely ever, from Luke's Gospel.
I feel like I am in the Christian twilight zone.
The New Testament only has two letters in it, Matthew's Gospel and James.
Here are some verses telling us that Christians are not judged.
John 3:18
He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
Hebrews 8:12
For I will be merciful to their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more.
Hebrews 9:28
So Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.
I come from the Johannine tradition where the Bible is constructed of many different traditions, including the Christian traditions. It becomes a matter of loving what is best rather than putting one tradition in conflict with another yet Jesus himself allowed for this distinction-
“I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word," Jesus
Every human being, Christian or not, are gifted with talents and abilities, however, Christianity allows that we come to recognise our gifts and talents as part of our ability to be inspired and inspiring. There is no false choice of faith/works, for in expressing the best part of us in our journey through life, our works become our challenges and our challenges rely on the measure of our love for somethinbg other than ourselves. It is why I always find Paul's description delightful-
"What have you that you have not received from God? and if you have received it, why do you boast as if you had not received it?" But in the cross of tribulation and affliction we may glory, because, as the Apostle says again, "I will not glory save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ." Amen." St Francis/St Paul
Apologies if I am saying too much this morning.
“I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word," Jesus
Every human being, Christian or not, are gifted with talents and abilities, however, Christianity allows that we come to recognise our gifts and talents as part of our ability to be inspired and inspiring. There is no false choice of faith/works, for in expressing the best part of us in our journey through life, our works become our challenges and our challenges rely on the measure of our love for somethinbg other than ourselves. It is why I always find Paul's description delightful-
"What have you that you have not received from God? and if you have received it, why do you boast as if you had not received it?" But in the cross of tribulation and affliction we may glory, because, as the Apostle says again, "I will not glory save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ." Amen." St Francis/St Paul
Apologies if I am saying too much this morning.
Jackson123 said:
How about Matt 25
Jesus saved people because they help the poor
Abraham believe than work hard walk more than 2000 mile brought all his animal move to israel
Matt 7-
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’
23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
v.21 kinda sounds like getting into the kingdom will be based on doing things, such as "the will of My Father".
So v.22 shows this crowd appealing to Jesus on the basis of doing really good things, and EVEN in His Name: casting out demons, and performing many miracles!!
But, in v.23 Jesus tells them plainly that He "never knew" them. If any of them had ever believed in Him alone for salvation, He couldn't have said that to them. So what He did say to them proves that they never believed in Him.
How about Matt 25
Jesus saved people because they help the poor
Abraham believe than work hard walk more than 2000 mile brought all his animal move to israel
Actually, Jesus gave us a future account of what a crowd says to Him about getting into the kingdom.
Matt 7-
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’
23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
v.21 kinda sounds like getting into the kingdom will be based on doing things, such as "the will of My Father".
So v.22 shows this crowd appealing to Jesus on the basis of doing really good things, and EVEN in His Name: casting out demons, and performing many miracles!!
But, in v.23 Jesus tells them plainly that He "never knew" them. If any of them had ever believed in Him alone for salvation, He couldn't have said that to them. So what He did say to them proves that they never believed in Him.
Let me give you a lesson on WHEN a person possesses eternal life. I recall you had said that eternal life is given at the end of one's life, as if one's lifestyle makes a difference.
John 3-
15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”[a]
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24 -
“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”
John 6:47 - Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.
1 John 5:13 - I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.
These verse very clearly and plainly tell us who POSSESSES eternal life; whoever believes. So your opinion that eternal life is given AFTER one's life on earth is totally FALSE.
Given 1 John 5:13 and your claim that eternal life is not given until after one's life, apparently you don't believe that you possess eternal life right now.
The apostle John is appealing to YOU, Jackson 123, that if you have trusted in Jesus Christ alone to save you (not your lifestyle), you right now HAVE eternal life.
Do you believe what John wrote to YOU?
Since you claim that salvation is by Jesus only ("one way"), how can you also claim that one's lifestyle determines one's salvation.
That is severely conflicted.
Well said brother,...well said!
Many are called, but few are chosen.
But why doesn't God choose everyone...he calls?
When I was born of God, some 20 plus years ago, I wondered,....Why me?
I didn't go to church, and I didn't read the bible. And I, was much less deserving than all those people who went to church, and read the bible.
So, Why...did God choose me?
Took me years to figure it out, but the reason was right there before me in one of the Lords parables. When I was called, on my 41st birthday, I didn't come to God to be saved. I came to God, because I couldn't find the peace and Joy, in anything, in the world.
I had money to buy whatever I wanted, and money to go wherever I wanted. I had a big beautiful house on a ski lake, many friends. And last, but the most important...A wonderful wife!!
But still, with all this worldly wealth,...I discovered the day I was called...I was actually quite miserable. The worldly wealth was no more than using your finger to plug a hole in the dam. I was called the night my dam burst....falling into a deep depression I turned to God. God called me when he burst my dam.
I was chosen, not because I was special, but simply because when I was called, I came to God seeking the Peace and the Joy, which others find in the world. And in reality, that's what the parable of the Prodigal Son is all about. God wants those whom he calls, to seek our peace and Joy through a relationship with him. But very few people come to God seeking this. They only come to God...to be saved, and once they believe they are saved, they go right back into the world. Salvation results from a relationship with God. A relationship where Gods love grows for us, as our love grows for him.
If believers seek their Joy through a relationship with God, they will not only find what they seek, they will discover a whole lot more.
Romans 5:8
Romans 10-13 + Galatians 3:5~ Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.
Does God lavish His Spirit on you and work miracles among you because you obey the law, or because you hear and believe?
True..but you only hear what you want to hear.
Brother I do not deny..."The Fact," there is scripture which supports what many believe. The problem is, what many of you believe, is not built upon the Gospel of Jesus Christ. When you present these facts, facts not founded upon the Gospel of Christ, these facts become lies. Paul was not a liar, but when you use his teachings without the foundational teachings of Salvation taught by Jesus, you make Paul appear to be a false teacher. Which he isn't!!
And the most important thing for you to learn about Abraham, is this....Abraham was a friend of God...and for this reason, God didn't need to put him under the his Law. Abraham was credited with righteousness because he kept Gods laws because he loved him!!
Free Grace, here's a Catch 22 for you, 2 in fact. According to you, those who do what 2 Pet 1:5-11 (my signature) below exhorts will not just go to Heaven, but receive an Abundant Entrance, or more Rewards. Well, very good then. I'm going to aim for that, and work for that, by God's Grace. When a mere earthly job or whatever promises more rewards, how many people rush to try to have it. So much more should we store Treasures in Heaven, as the Lord said, by doing Good Works.
And where I disagree is not indeed that those who don't labor more won't be rewarded more; they will, be as also 1 Cor 3:8, and 3:13-15 says, but that these Good Works, by God's Grace, "help confirm our calling and election". If you need to do something to confirm a plane ticket, say, it's not confirmed already. That's why this verse is strong evidence against OSAS.
OSAS is true if we mean Once Justified, Always Justified. Once Baptized, Always Baptized. Once Sanctified, Always Sanctified. And also, if you Persevere in Faith, or in Good Works, then you received the Grace to Persevere from the Lord.
But not once saved, always saved, in the sense you mean it. I agree if you sin little, and don't work for the Lord, you'll lose rewards from Him. Such persons will be "saved, but only through fire", with their works burned up as 1 Cor 3:13-14 also says. But if you sin gravely, unto death, and don't repent at all, and even turn your back on Christ, you won't be saved at all.
But, here's the 2nd Catch 22 for you. According to you, most everyone who has ever said a 30 Second Sinners Prayers (and I'm sure most on this forum have said it, including me; and including most non-OSASers) are once saved, always saved, and nothing absolutely whatever they do or don't do can change then. Well, very good then, we're pretty much all saved then!
Final question: if someone who you believe was OSAS has now backslidden from Christ and is an Atheist, would you even try to Evangelize him? According to you, he's still going to Heaven, right? If you sin gravely, i.e. unto death, you lose Christ, or the Holy Spirit, Who is our life. If you die without having Christ in you, you cannot go to Heaven. That's why it says clearly: "6God “will repay each one according to his deeds.” 7To those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life. (Rom 2:6-7) King David (Psa 62:2) and King Solomon (Prov 24:12) said similar things.
Notice that Jesus Christ Himself says the same as Rom 2:6 in Rev 22:12, which means it still applies in the New Covenant: "12“Behold, I am coming soon, and My reward is with Me, to give to each one according to what he has done." (Rev 22:12)
God Bless.
And where I disagree is not indeed that those who don't labor more won't be rewarded more; they will, be as also 1 Cor 3:8, and 3:13-15 says, but that these Good Works, by God's Grace, "help confirm our calling and election". If you need to do something to confirm a plane ticket, say, it's not confirmed already. That's why this verse is strong evidence against OSAS.
OSAS is true if we mean Once Justified, Always Justified. Once Baptized, Always Baptized. Once Sanctified, Always Sanctified. And also, if you Persevere in Faith, or in Good Works, then you received the Grace to Persevere from the Lord.
But not once saved, always saved, in the sense you mean it. I agree if you sin little, and don't work for the Lord, you'll lose rewards from Him. Such persons will be "saved, but only through fire", with their works burned up as 1 Cor 3:13-14 also says. But if you sin gravely, unto death, and don't repent at all, and even turn your back on Christ, you won't be saved at all.
But, here's the 2nd Catch 22 for you. According to you, most everyone who has ever said a 30 Second Sinners Prayers (and I'm sure most on this forum have said it, including me; and including most non-OSASers) are once saved, always saved, and nothing absolutely whatever they do or don't do can change then. Well, very good then, we're pretty much all saved then!
Final question: if someone who you believe was OSAS has now backslidden from Christ and is an Atheist, would you even try to Evangelize him? According to you, he's still going to Heaven, right? If you sin gravely, i.e. unto death, you lose Christ, or the Holy Spirit, Who is our life. If you die without having Christ in you, you cannot go to Heaven. That's why it says clearly: "6God “will repay each one according to his deeds.” 7To those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life. (Rom 2:6-7) King David (Psa 62:2) and King Solomon (Prov 24:12) said similar things.
Notice that Jesus Christ Himself says the same as Rom 2:6 in Rev 22:12, which means it still applies in the New Covenant: "12“Behold, I am coming soon, and My reward is with Me, to give to each one according to what he has done." (Rev 22:12)
God Bless.