U
Undergrace1
Guest
We could also say God committed genocide, according to post geneva standards when he caused the great flood when only eight were saved in Noah's day
Replacement theology? Yes or No.
- Thread starter Gideon300
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
God is a just judge and when He takes lives He takes only what is His.
Not so with man.
If we were to accept Genocide for the reason that it is being done by "Israel", we reinstate it as the way of business for everyone else too.
In the mind of the world what is good for the goose is good for the Gander.
All sorts of evil things come to pass, but it is in our own best interests not to participate in the evil.
U
Undergrace1
Guest
God used man to take lives. It is easy to read the OT and things that happened, but not to dwell on the actual implications of what happened, so let us do so
What happened in the flood of Noah's day? Children, babies, all drowned to death. Youngsters, who had not reached the age of accountabilty drowned, in fear and anguish. Same as, when God instructed Moses to put everyone to death in places he captured, men, women and children in stark fear as they were slaughtered.
How would you feel, being there or rationalising those events through the lens of the human mind?
I heard a sermon years ago on Hagar and her son Ishmael, God instructed Abraham to send them away, with nothing more than a flagon of water. The minister said, if we looked at that through the rational mind we would consider it a cruel thing to do. But when we read the bible, we must in faith accept God does what is right, not what we may naturally think is right.
So, you do not believe Israelites being in their biblical homeland today is of God, so, you view what is happening there today according to you're view. As you know, I disagree with you. Is what is happening there today, any worse than a flood killing all but eight people, or Moses being instructed by God to slaughter everyone in places they invaded?
We could even rationalise who Israel is fighting, people that carry the most threat to Christians, m any of whom believe when they kill christians they are doing God a service(John16:2) Much more can be said, but I dislike long posts
God's covenant of law with Israel was fundamentally of blessing and cursing. Do right and be blessed, do evil and be cursed. Israel consistently disobeyed. They were taken captive by Babylon and Assyria. They were occupied by Greece and Rome. Antiochus Epiphanes desecrated the temple as prophesied by Daniel.
God warned at Sinai what He would do if rebellion persisted. And Israel rejected God's word. Lord Jesus was the Prophet foretold by Moses and Israel rejected Jesus also. Then the leaders persecuted Christians. God had enough. First the Romans destroyed the temple. I don't believe that we understand just how much this meant to Israel. Their lives revolved around the temple. Still Israel rebelled.
In about AD 130, the Romans had had enough. Rome generally left conquered peoples alone, as long as they paid taxes and did not resist. Israel became a Roman province, renamed Palestina, derived from Philistia. It was the ultimate insult for Jews. In AD 130, Rome crushed the final revolt of the Jews and Israel effectively ceased to exist. Some Jews remained, but most fled.
All this came about according to God's purpose. In David and Solomon's time, Israel was the greatest power in the region. Solomon went into idolatry and Israel's decline began. The prophets were able to bring about temporary restoration but never for very long. The rest, as they say, is history.
It's actually the so-called Palestinians who are calling for genocide. I don't Jews marching in the streets chanting from the river to the sea. Neither do Jews behead those who leave Judaism.
Self defence is not genocide. Some seem unable to comprehend that simple truth.
U
Undergrace1
Guest
Absolutely, and those who do not believe the Israelites being in their biblical homeland is of God, don't appear to want to mention October 7. If they are surrounded by people desiring their extinction, what choice have they got but to fight? Im sure those opposing Israel today, would expect their government to fight anyone seeking their extinction and acting against them as happened on October 7, and Im equally sure, if their governments at times did not act perfectly according to the geneva convention they would not mind, they would simply say the other side deserved what they got
No other nation is expected to put up with what Israel has had to endure. The hypocrisy is almost comedy if it was not so sad. Such as English people accusing Israel of being colonisers.
U
Undergrace1
Guest
Its all biblical prophecy coming true before our eyes. In the end Israel will stand alone, and that is the way God will want it, so no one can take the credit for the victory they will have but God
She is broadcasting to the whole world that she is blind and foolish to not respect God and His promises to Israel or refuse to glorify and be happy for Him for all the prophecies He has already brought to pass.
The funniest part is she didn't even realize she did that!
She thinks she's being edgy and cool about it. When was rebellion against God ever a good thing?
She is broadcasting to the whole world that she is blind and foolish to not respect God and His promises to Israel or refuse to glorify and be happy for Him for all the prophecies He has already brought to pass.
The funniest part is she didn't even realize she did that!
She thinks she's being edgy and cool about it. When was rebellion against God ever a good thing?
I trust the words of Christ Jesus, do you?
“God's plan for Israel as a nation has never changed.”
ive never said it did . My assertion is that you are missing too much information to understand It’s just that you haven’t followed what he said his plans for them were and are ….Like this
“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:”
Jeremiah 31:31-32 KJV
You want to try to make the old covenant blessings if they would have kept the covenant be fulfilled instead of the curses he promised if they broke the covenant
it leads me to believe you’ve never read Moses words of mediation to the people which is thier covenant and was specifically applicable to thier land inheritance
It’s like israel did in the ot they pretend Gods warnings of cursing based on tbier behavior under the law weren’t true and somehow the blessings for obedience were not based on obedience .
his plans for isreal haven’t changed at all the old covenant he made with them however was broken by them and fulfilled as a curse and that entire covenant is desolate and void . Without accepting the new covenant through Jesus Christ ….. they have absolutely no salvation from the curses they brought upon themselves breaking tboer covenant that earned them
your missing the entire story of the old covenant and it’s conditions and purposes and how it was only ever meant to lead to the new and better eternal covenant and eternal
Kingdom of God the new heaven and earth he’s promised since mankind and then isreal defiled the first things
so beginning with “ gods plans haven’t changed “ I agree with . I don’t think you understand much of it in the overall view however that’s were the disagreement is . And I’m assuming lol because you’ve already said it many times haha that you don’t think I understand it
So we’re at impass but neither of us is saying God changed anything , I just think you haven’t read or known or maybe choose to ignore many things that are simple like Gods plans form israel include accepting thier king and savior . Not rejecting him and claiming religion without him is the way ……
not sure some understsnd unless isralites become Christian’s and forget Judaism all together they don’t have any inheritance at all …. Like ishmael nor are they Abraham’s children of Promise if they reject Christ and the gospel
There’s no way to bless people in God while they reject Christ as religious Jews do it only shows tbier blindness to Gods truth by the very covenant that’s been fulfilled as the perpetual curse they were warned about .
theybhave to accept the new covenant and it’s better eternal promises along with the better promised land that those of faith never recognized anyways
Even as far back as Abraham Isaac and Jacob they understood the promised land wasn’t on this earth but some can’t hear faith
“These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. ….But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
Hebrews 11:13-14, 16 KJV
But some are waiting for a restoration of a man made temple or better yet they are waiting for Elijah the prophet to appear ……. It’s because they never followed the events and happenings of Old Testament isreal and also refuse to hear all the warnings God was giving them all along concerning thier land if they didn’t repent ….
Lack of info is the issue
Its all laid out even before Jesus birth in the law and prophets too
“And the LORD appeared in the tabernacle in a pillar of a cloud: and the pillar of the cloud stood over the door of the tabernacle. And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them. Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us, because our God is not among us?”
Deuteronomy 31:15-17
Later on
“And I will give the men that have transgressed my covenant, which have not performed the words of the covenant which they had made before me, when they cut the calf in twain, and passed between the parts thereof, the princes of Judah, and the princes of Jerusalem, the eunuchs, and the priests, and all the people of the land, which passed between the parts of the calf; I will even give them into the hand of their enemies, and into the hand of them that seek their life: and their dead bodies shall be for meat unto the fowls of the heaven, and to the beasts of the earth. Behold, I will command, saith the LORD, and cause them to return to this city; and they shall fight against it, and take it, and burn it with fire: and I will make the cities of Judah a desolation without an inhabitant.”
Jeremiah 34:18-20, 22 KJV
“The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left. The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.”
Isaiah 24:5-6, 20 KJV
But also a promise ….
“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:”
Jeremiah 31:31-32 KJV
in the ot israel always refused to believe Gods warnings and calls to repentance they began to say and believe “ God is too good he will never fulfill the corses and bring to pass tbose desolations he said he would because … he promised Abraham ! “
often it becomes apparent when people haven’t followed Israel’s story in tbe ot or read thier covenant laws and warnings and curses that he said would certainly Come to pass if the cofenant was broken
It’s a shame because then the glory of the new Covenant and it’s far better promises And inheritance really stand out
“But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.”
Hebrews 8:6 KJV
Abraham Isaac and Jacob knew that wasn’t thier inheritance they were looking for the city of God and true promised land
The most important question with all these issues is:
Is God with us or not?
We should be very careful, because we do not have authority to tell Him what to do.
Since the New Testament Christians have attached themselves to many political powers, yet none have advanced the cause of Christ.
The best they can do is make small groups of Christians rich at the expense of the testimony of many.
There is a good reason for this.
There is greater power in Christ than all the military powers of the world combined, and when we align ourselves with earthly causes that originate from man we abandon that.
Jesus said "Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God."
The kingdom of God is not fought for by weapons of war, so if we find ourselves advocating for war we should know which kingdom we are in.
Self defense? There may be a place for it.
Now that we have defended ourselves what do we do next?
Yes exactly prophecy is about the covenants and judicial statements and agreed upon outcomes.
If they understood the OT they would understand that prophecy is not predicting the future it is about covenant accountability.
This futurist is so very far off the mark in how it treats the OT and NT verbiage, just the wrong, wrong western modern day lens.
U
Undergrace1
Guest
Well God does allow for weapons to be used in war for victories he desires. The Israelites in the OT used such weapons. But really this comes down to one thing you mentioned:
Is God with us or not
You would have no problem accepting the examples I gave you from the OT because you believe God ordained them, inspite of their consequences for the many
I believe, as you know, God brought the Israelites back to the land in fulfillment of biblical prophecies, so, I view everything happening now in light of that.
You on the other hand do not see the Isrsaelites being in the land as a fulfillment of biblical prophecies, and therefore, you simply see it from a humanistic point of view. Though without wishing to be disrespectful, I would say a slanted view. But basically it comes down to our differing views of the Israelites being in the land. Hope I explained that adequately
U
Undergrace1
Guest
Well of course, we mustn't accept what the plain text states should we, but rather eissegesis to overturn it. Thanks, but no thanks